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Posted: 11/8/2003 1:22:53 PM EDT
I am looking at a Rock River Arms Standard A2.
What do you all know about these rifles...they look good to me.
Thanks,
Medic 0372
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 1:37:56 PM EDT
I don't know anything about RRAs, but I do know Bushmasters and I won't buy anything else!
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 1:49:32 PM EDT
I have an RRA and I love it. Quality is top notch and the prices are very competitive. One warning: Buy one that a dealer has IN STOCK if you want to have anytime soon. A friend of mine (and FFL) waited almost two months for two rifles from the factory. Also, I had to wait over 5 weeks for a dealer to receive a part that he had ordered weeks before I asked for one.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 1:59:02 PM EDT
I have only had RR lowers (5 of them)their fit and finish is as nice as any, good and tight. I have them on RR uppers and on Bushy uppers. They are hard to beat in my opinion.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 2:01:30 PM EDT
I've owned a RRA rifle and it was the most reliable AR I owned.I would buy another but would buy with a chrome-lined barrel like the last one.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 2:28:36 PM EDT
They are top notch stuff. They had some initial "spec" problems that were rectified fairly quickly. I have a RRA M4 type upper from Legal Transfers that runs like a top and is really accurate. I have had 2 varmint uppers that are both subMOA accurate with less than match ammo. I have also had several of their lowers that are top top quality. I would really recommend them as a very cost effective alternative to the big 3.... Though I also love Armalite. Ed
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 3:53:01 PM EDT
I would say that it is safe to add them to the ABC's (Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt) making it ABCR's. [:D]
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 10:15:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2003 10:16:45 PM EDT by SpentShellz]
im petty sure you wont find any [red]cons[/red] about them well..... mabye one thats very very used ..."some one might say its warn"...
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 10:44:45 PM EDT
RRA lowers won't take a drop in autosear without modification.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 11:32:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2003 11:38:50 PM EDT by CJan_NH]
Originally Posted By VICAP: I don't know anything about RRAs, but I do know Bushmasters and I won't buy anything else!
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Then how do you know there isn't something better? Medic- Of my previous non-Colt ARs my RRA was the most trouble free by far. Comparing my old Bushmaster XM15 to my old RRA is like comparing a Tec9 to an MP5-the Rock River is simply in a higher class. If you can visualize a Colt with standard H/T pins, no protruding sear block, and a full circle carrier you'll have a good idea of what a Rock River AR is like. RRA generally prefers to fix problems [i]before[/i] they ship their rifles, as opposed to Bushmaster who prefers to have their customers do the beta testing and QA checking for them. Bushmaster is renowned in the industry for their excellent customer service. Given the amount of practice they get I'm not surprised.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 11:49:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/8/2003 11:49:54 PM EDT by SpentShellz]
I think RRA was a rebelion against shitty manufactures other than the "abc's"... it was a GOOD QUALITY other manufacture that has poven them selves.. also another QUOTE OF THE YEAR i think ^[rofl2] spentshellz
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 2:53:09 AM EDT
Good stuff - buy RRA in a heartbeat.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 3:01:27 AM EDT
There are two important elements when purchasing a rifle. First is the rifle, second the dealer. My experience with Pete at Legal Transfers and RRA could only be described as outstanding. Pete was knowledgeable and honest regarding the rifle and delivery. He guided me through the process. I am happier with the rifle I purchased from him than any pervious purchase of a rifle that I have made.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 1:54:58 PM EDT
Had RRA 1911 before buying thier Varmint AR. Experience with them with the 1911 convinced me that they take the same care in building AR's as thier Primo 1911's which also happen to be Great Bargins!
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 2:18:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By scottryan: RRA lowers won't take a drop in autosear without modification.
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SO??? And your point is? BTW, if you have $4500+ to spend on a RDIAS or RLL, spending $50 to have the lower shelf milled is chump change and a useless arguement against RRA. RRA rifles are great.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 2:26:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/9/2003 2:27:07 PM EDT by new-arguy]
It will be hard to list Rock River as one of the top three (four?) when they make up about 1% of all commercial market AR15 sales. Heck, Armalite/Eagle is number three and they make up only about 9%. Im not saying they are not good rifles. All the ones I have seen have been very good, but their numbers just dont put them up there with the big three. IMHO, it takes more than making a good product to have that title.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 2:32:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By new-arguy: It will be hard to list Rock River as one of the top three (four?) when they make up about 1% of all commercial market AR15 sales. Heck, Armalite/Eagle is number three and they make up only about 9%. Im not saying they are not good rifles. All the ones I have seen have been very good, but their numbers just dont put them up there with the big three. IMHO, it takes more than making a good product to have that title.
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MY TOP-3 consists of quality firearms, it has NOTHING to do with sales volume. This may not be how "The Top 3" are actually contrived, but it's all that matters to me. The quality is top shelf, the reliability is top shelf. Makes it in the same class as the top 3 in my book. [:)]
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 2:58:24 PM EDT
I have one that has been great, fit and finish both excellent. I am in the process of building another one now.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 3:08:58 PM EDT
Get one from someone who has it in stock. I'm into my second month of waiting for mine straight from RRA. ~AbM
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 3:34:32 PM EDT
Originally Posted By new-arguy: It will be hard to list Rock River as one of the top three (four?) when they make up about 1% of all commercial market AR15 sales. Heck, Armalite/Eagle is number three and they make up only about 9%. Im not saying they are not good rifles. All the ones I have seen have been very good, but their numbers just dont put them up there with the big three. IMHO, it takes more than making a good product to have that title.
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Not trying to be a pain new_arguy but, using that rationale, if Hesse (which I understand is a turd) sold the most rifles it would be considered "with" the big three? I don't buy that. Then how would a solid performing newcomer (RRA) break into the business if sales were the only consideration? My understanding was that the ABC "rule" was in relation to quality.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 4:15:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/9/2003 4:18:42 PM EDT by Sgt_Gravy]
Originally Posted By new-arguy:but their numbers just dont put them up there with the big three. IMHO, it takes more than making a good product to have that title.
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I'm not sure if I quite understand what you mean by this....just curious. I'm a big 1911 fan, and the "Big Three" I think about is Wilson Combat, Les Baer, and Ed Brown, and I'm sure that these manufacturers are probably the bottom three when it comes to production numbers compared to Kimber, Springfield etc. I know that customer service is important. I would be hesitant to buy a very well made gun if they have sub-par CS.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 9:47:12 PM EDT
I'm not sure but I think their barrels are not chrome lined, if you care about that. I have used the parts and the lowers before, very nice.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 10:15:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DOA:
Originally Posted By scottryan: RRA lowers won't take a drop in autosear without modification.
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SO??? And your point is? BTW, if you have $4500+ to spend on a RDIAS or RLL, spending $50 to have the lower shelf milled is chump change and a useless arguement against RRA. RRA rifles are great.
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No, my argument is not useless. The point is RRA is being politcally correct by not allowing a DIAS to be used without modification. It is the same thing as Colt using oversized pins and blocking the lower. I can reweld a Colt lower and drill new holes and remove the block but that isn't the point.
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 4:39:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2003 4:43:48 AM EDT by new-arguy]
Saying that RRA is not a big three does not immediately equate to saying they have "sub-par" parts, or that they lack quality. Please dont view it that way. Only that they are a new company breaking into the market. The "big three" generally offer more than a good or great product. They usually offer superior customer service and larger selection, have greater availability of product and faster turnaround times. These tend to be things a larger company can do more easily because of greater resources and more employees. In my view, Colt is an odd exception to this for the most part. Rock River is a new company making what look to me to be excellent rifles. But they are a new, and small company. For a while there they did not even have a phone number you could call. Demand for their product is high for the amount they are able to produce. I think this is a good thing and always like more competition in the market. It's great for consumers (like me!). This may actually be something that attracts people to the company and makes them want to support them even more. And thats cool. But it does not change the fact that the size of their company, at present, prevents them from offering the customer service, selection and availability of a larger company. Last we saw here, RRA was not being very consistant in the way they were treating their customers who bought their out of spec flat tops, including some of the first AR15.com special edition rifles. The story they told about how these out of spec guns were actually "the new spec" that all other manufactuerers were tooling up to change to was outrageous and I have never forgotten that or understood why they made up such a crazy story. Whats worse is how they have treated those folks who bought these out of spec rifles. They have replaced some with in spec receivers and told other people they were out of luck. However the mistake, the story they told, and their inconsistency in fixing the problem are all signs of a new company struggling to make it in a very competative market. Making the mistake is no big deal. Everyone does. Heck, Bushmaster has had a bigger problem than anyone over-tourqing the barrels which have left more than a small number of their rifles shooting off to one side. However if you call Bushmaster and tell them, they will have a mail carrier pick it up ASAP, fix it ASAP, and get it back to you ASAP. For free, no questions asked. Just a couple examples of a couple of mistakes and the type response you get from a company who has the staff and resources to do the right thing. This is the sort of thing that gets you in the big three in my opinion... or keeps you out. I dont think you could compare Rock River to Les Baer, Wilson and Ed Brown. These are super high end guns that are very near custom builds. Rock River is making a good gun, but I dont think they are rivaling the likes of custom guns. Hesse could never be anything other than crap because they have absolute crap product. No one is going to sell enough of that crap to do enough for their company to ever be anything but crap.
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 4:52:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By scottryan:
Originally Posted By DOA:
Originally Posted By scottryan:
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No, my argument is not useless. The point is RRA is being politcally correct by not allowing a DIAS to be used without modification. It is the same thing as Colt using oversized pins and blocking the lower. I can reweld a Colt lower and drill new holes and remove the block but that isn't the point.
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So, by your logic then Bushmaster would have to be also put on that list since they don't sell FA parts without personal tax info? That leaves Armalite. Are you saying Armalite is the only non-sellout?
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 5:04:48 AM EDT
I have a RRA post-ban M4gery that's one of my favorite rifles, very reliable, excellent fit & finish I've also helped 3 friends assemble AR's on RRA lowers with many RRA parts, no problems with any of those rifles either
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 5:14:15 AM EDT
I've built a RRA lower and haven't had any problems out of it. I've also used RRA lower parts kits for a few other lowers. I'm very pleased with their quality. However, when I first built the RRA lower and tried putting two different Bushy uppers on it, neither upper would fit without a LOT of force. The rear lug and receiver holes just wouldn't line up because the receivers wouldn't quite close. I thought the lower was out of spec. Turns out many people have had this "issue" with Bushy uppers and RRA lowers being VERY tight. A few hundred rounds later things loosened up a bit but are still nice and tight. I wouldn't hesitate to buy RRA. That said, I'm on week 10 waiting for my Varmint upper. [:(] I'm sure it will be worth the wait though.
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 6:05:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2003 6:14:39 AM EDT by DWW22]
It took only 2 weeks to get my Rock from the factory!
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 4:26:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DWW22: It took only 2 weeks to get my Rock from the factory!
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I hate you! >= O ~AbM
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 5:44:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BookHound: However, when I first built the RRA lower and tried putting two different Bushy uppers on it, neither upper would fit without a LOT of force. The rear lug and receiver holes just wouldn't line up because the receivers wouldn't quite close. I thought the lower was out of spec. Turns out many people have had this "issue" with Bushy uppers and RRA lowers being VERY tight. A few hundred rounds later things loosened up a bit but are still nice and tight. I wouldn't hesitate to buy RRA.
My father-in-law just ran into the same problem. His was tight to the point of having to dress down the rear lug on the upper with a file.
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 6:02:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BookHound: I've built a RRA lower and haven't had any problems out of it. I've also used RRA lower parts kits for a few other lowers. I'm very pleased with their quality. However, when I first built the RRA lower and tried putting two different Bushy uppers on it, neither upper would fit without a LOT of force. The rear lug and receiver holes just wouldn't line up because the receivers wouldn't quite close. I thought the lower was out of spec. Turns out many people have had this "issue" with Bushy uppers and RRA lowers being VERY tight. A few hundred rounds later things loosened up a bit but are still nice and tight. I'm glad I'm not the only one that has experienced this.
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 7:23:37 PM EDT
Currently I have two RRA's, NM A-4 and TASC carbine. Since I am new to AR-15s I don't have much to compare to. I obtained Rock River Arms because of what I had read on this forum (and because the factory is only two hours away; I went there in person and ordered direct). Besides being extremely dependable very accurate,I get many favorable comments at the local range about the quality of these rifles. This from persons much more experienced with various AR-15s then I am. From this I can only conclude that Rock River Arms makes an excellent product. I am already considering an additional Upper for one of my rifles. PS: the staff at RRA is excellent. IF they have had "customer relations" problems in the past, that is now behind them. I can't say enough good things about the way they have treated me as a customer.
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 7:33:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2003 7:38:07 PM EDT by scottryan]
Originally Posted By DOA: So, by your logic then Bushmaster would have to be also put on that list since they don't sell FA parts without personal tax info? That leaves Armalite. Are you saying Armalite is the only non-sellout?
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Wrong, Bushmaster must check personal tax info. What if Bushmaster ships a semiauto AR15 to a Title 1 dealer with full auto trigger components seperate but in the same box without checking tax info. Then, they just shipped a machine gun to a dealer, who can't posses a machine gun. Full auto parts, seperate or installed, with a semiauto gun is a machine gun according to the ATF.
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 9:49:48 PM EDT
Im a die hard Bushmaster fan and owner for the last 12 years and recently I built a RRA lower for a friend and I was impressed.The lower was tight and machined a little tighter in upper to lower lock up than any other AR I have seen or owned.My next build will be RRA.
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 10:44:31 PM EDT
I've a RRA Varminter, and I love it! Extremely accurate and reliable rifle, never regretted buying it. Think there may be over 2k rounds through it now, without one single malfunction (unless it was caused by the operator, doh!). Will shoot .25 moa if I do my part. Awesome gun for $800!
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 4:31:46 AM EDT
i have an rra mid length upper on my EA lower. i love it! ive put over 2k rounds through it so far with ONE failure and that was ammo related. (that spanish ss109 shit) its more accurate than i am and the fit and finish was a perfect match. RRA is a top quality gun maker and id wager that its just as good as any of the other big companies. actually better when you factor in that its a hell of a lot cheaper than the rest! btw: if i could afford to spend $6k on a DIAS, i could afford to spend $5 or 6k more for the REAL thing!
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 4:55:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/11/2003 4:57:27 AM EDT by DOA]
Originally Posted By scottryan: Wrong, Bushmaster must check personal tax info. What if Bushmaster ships a semiauto AR15 to a Title 1 dealer with full auto trigger components seperate but in the same box without checking tax info. Then, they just shipped a machine gun to a dealer, who can't posses a machine gun. Full auto parts, seperate or installed, with a semiauto gun is a machine gun according to the ATF.
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A FA carrier CAN be installed in a semi AR15 legally. Please do a search on this board. And I think its very PC to to require them to protect me from myself. Thats how Liberals think. I realize they do it to protect themsleves, but that is nonsence, as you can sue anybody or anything.
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 10:15:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DOA: A FA carrier CAN be installed in a semi AR15 legally.
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But FA trigger parts cannot. That is what I am taking about.
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 10:19:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/11/2003 10:20:08 AM EDT by underdog75]
Chrome lined RRA M4gry...6000+ down the pipe and not a single problem... [img]HTTP://users.adelphia.net/~masine/m41.bmp[/img]
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 10:54:04 AM EDT
Not so long ago I bought 15 Rock River Arms lower receivers and whole bunch of spare parts (bolts, extractors, buttstocks etc.) and I have to say their quality is top notch. I´m very pleased but I´m still Bushmaster guy what comes to suitable loose upper lower fit. MN
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 6:05:46 PM EDT
Well thanks everyone...I bought the A2. It is great. I took it shooting today, put about 300 rds thru it. I did the improved battle sight zero to it. No problems. Took it out to 200 yds and got all the rounds on the paper.
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 7:37:31 PM EDT
Does RRA offer the NATO chamber, or do they just use the Wylde chamber?
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 8:16:00 PM EDT
Just the Wylde as far as I know. It takes both .223 and 5.56 without a problem though. I believe it is like a hybrid between the two.
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 10:49:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TwoTwentyThree: Does RRA offer the NATO chamber, or do they just use the Wylde chamber?
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They do have a NATO 5.56 chamber in In their CAR A2 and CAR A4 series. Comes with mid or carbine handguards (16"). The chrome-moly is 1:9 twist and the SS is 1:8 twist. The A4 flattop can come with a Wilson gas-block for mounting removable front sights or a built-on gas block with detachable front sight. Of course can als do PRI or other on your own. [URL]http://www.rockriverarms.com/subcats.cfm?Category=02&storeid=1[/URL]
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 1:06:58 PM EDT
"I dont think you could compare Rock River to Les Baer, Wilson and Ed Brown. These are super high end guns that are very near custom builds. Rock River is making a good gun, but I dont think they are rivaling the likes of custom guns." This is absolutely untrue! Own a RR LTD and a Baer PII. The RR is truly a hand-bulit pistol and every bit as accurate plus being better put/fit together. Have nver seen a Brown but my one example of a RR is easily as good or better than my friends Wilson's. Looks more like a Custom pistol too! FYI: two of the guys who run RR used to be at Baer.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 1:41:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/14/2003 1:42:40 PM EDT by LocknLoaded]
To the guys that said about extremly tight fits; think about this. you build a target or a match type gun, this would be a good platform that I would start from. uppers and lowers that are extremly tight, then get a really good trigger, then freefloat the barrel. I bought a RRA lower. I thought the machining is really good on them, though I am a bushmaster fan.
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 2:47:26 PM EDT
I own both an RRA Varminter and an A2. The A2 is fine. The Varminter was driving tacks while being broke in (shoot 1, scrub, CR-10, wipe clean, shoot 1). My fist five shot group out the ten ring took the eye out of the shoot-n-see pasture poodle target I used. I have RRA match triggers in other rifles, also. All well made stuff. I'll buy RRA in a heart beat.
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 4:10:50 PM EDT
I recently put together my first AR out of all Rock River parts and I love this rifle! I shot it for the first time last weekend and it performed flawlessly! My RRA rifle and my buddies Colt are the only AR's I have fired so I don't have much experience, but for now i'm standing by my RRA. I bought my parts from an outfit in Texas by the name of Texas Star Group. They have outstanding service and I had my parts within a week of ordering. I don't want to sound like a commercial , but I like to give the good business some attention!
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 9:21:41 PM EDT
i have a RR upper, B/C/CH. and lower with a colt barrel. fit and finish are perfect. next upper will start with a RR receiver. and yeah, the lower is a tight fit with a bushy upper. but it also fits my colt m4 upper receiver just fine.
Link Posted: 11/19/2003 8:59:00 PM EDT
My first AR is a RRA CARA2M4 and I love it love it love it. The trigger is smooth as silk and the fit and finish are terrific. It is way more accurate than I am, and although the Bushie is a fine weapon, IMHO the finish on the RRA is much nicer. I got mine from dealer stock so no delay, and frankly he talked me into it. I'm really glad he did. It's a terrific rifle. Mike
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