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Posted: 11/5/2003 5:00:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/5/2003 5:32:58 PM EDT by Horik]
Perhaps slightly off forum but check out the NG show on Special Forces on your local PBS station. Tape it if you have to. It was just on at 8ET and was quite good.

Thought I would post here for all of us AR variant freaks

Next showing:

Thurs. Nov.6th at 3am
Sat. Nov.8th at 5am

Lots of M4's with all the goodies.....and interestingly mostly EOTECH's.

Goes through the SF history and alot of stuff from Afghanistan and Iraq!

Catch it if you can.
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 5:23:28 PM EDT
Just finished watching and recording it.
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 7:17:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2003 10:15:25 AM EDT by Horik]
I believe I explained that! edited: this post looks out-o-place due to a delete! Ignore!
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 9:59:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2003 6:25:21 AM EDT by wyv3rn]
Originally Posted By Horik: Lots of M4's with all the goodies.....and interestingly mostly EOTECH's.
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I caught this show, found it very interesting. I especially noticed the EOTECH's. They were being used almost exclusively. 1. All the operators were using the "N" battery version EOTECHs. I found this somewhat suprising as might many of you given their "short" battery life. Maybe it was for weight savings, maybe for compactness. Any other ideas? 2. All of the EOTECHs were mounted to the upper receiver despite every rifle having a RAS available to them. I'm wondering if this has anything to do with a lack of confidence in RAS to keep zero? If it were "preference" I'd imagine you'd see varied locations, but they ALL had it on the upper receiver. Seems to me it would be more accurate the closer to you it is and if you already have a habbit of good cheekweld then this is not a problem. I don't have one myself though. Edited: don't have an EOTECH myself.. my cheekweld habbit is just fine. [:D] Other's thoughts sought..
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 2:09:58 AM EDT
Damn...encode it and put on Kazaa for us overseas guys...:((
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 4:24:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 6:17:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By C4iGrant: I always sing the praises of the "N" battery models. The small foot print it has on the receiver allows for a NV device behind it and a BUIS. The AA model wouldn't allow for this...
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Umm, shouldn't the AA EOTech also fit infront of an NV device as long as you don't have the M4 handguards blocking it? If you have CAR handguards I don't see why you couldn't mount the AA battery EOTECH to the same position you mount the N battery EOTECH to fit NV?
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 6:45:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Horik: Lots of M4's with all the goodies.....and interestingly mostly EOTECH's.
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Damn, you beat me to it. I didn't get the entire thing recorded but there were quite a few aimpoints shown also (more at the begining of the show). At least this shows the Spec Ops think the EoTech is a good optic. They trust their life to it. Even saw some ACOGs.
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 7:26:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2003 7:27:09 AM EDT by Va_Dinger]
Dam it, I missed it. Anybody want to sell a copy? I have to work during both of its replays.
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 7:34:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By wyv3rn:
Originally Posted By Horik: Lots of M4's with all the goodies.....and interestingly mostly EOTECH's.
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I caught this show, found it very interesting. I especially noticed the EOTECH's. They were being used almost exclusively. 1. All the operators were using the "N" battery version EOTECHs. I found this somewhat suprising as might many of you given their "short" battery life. Maybe it was for weight savings, maybe for compactness. Any other ideas? 2. All of the EOTECHs were mounted to the upper receiver despite every rifle having a RAS available to them. I'm wondering if this has anything to do with a lack of confidence in RAS to keep zero? If it were "preference" I'd imagine you'd see varied locations, but they ALL had it on the upper receiver. Seems to me it would be more accurate the closer to you it is and if you already have a habbit of good cheekweld then this is not a problem. I don't have one myself though. Edited: don't have an EOTECH myself.. my cheekweld habbit is just fine. [:D] Other's thoughts sought..
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I had an EOtech on a RASII. It wandered as I added and removed components. That may be what they're trying to avoid.
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 8:27:03 AM EDT
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 9:08:21 AM EDT
I will be re-recording it again tonight since I did'nt get the tape in and hit the record button till about 10 miutes into the show last night. If anyone wants copies I can do it.....just pay me postage costs and a buck or two for the video. email AYhorik@aol.com and title it PBS. Seems alot of the Aimpoints were seen in Astan and the later Iraq stuff showed alot of Eo's. All good gear of course!
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 9:13:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Va_Dinger: Dam it, I missed it. Anybody want to sell a copy? I have to work during both of its replays.
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dinger, I'm going to call PBS this afternoon and order the tape. You can borrow it or come over and watch it.
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 9:42:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2003 9:49:42 AM EDT by 556Cliff]
I don't know if this is going to get locked or not. So IBTL, just in case. Edited for stupid.[:)]
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 9:43:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2003 10:02:21 AM EDT by Va_Dinger]
Why are so many people trying to be "hall monitors". You can't figure out for yourself why Special Forces Operators with AR's is a relevant AR Discussion? My god, post after post has IBTL! My advise is to relax. Let the real moderators do their job. Thanks for the "stupid" comment. Maybe if you can't figure why a dicussion centered on SF Operators use of M4's, Aimpoints, Eotechs, Acogs, Etc. is a relevent AR dicussion you should look in the mirror instead of posting "Hall Monitor" comments.
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 9:52:33 AM EDT
Ok to keep the mods happy - I have two AR specific questions: 1. What was the device that I saw on many of there ARs that was nearest the muzzle / ahead of the EOTechs / mounted on the handguards? It looked to be about 3" wide and it was flat in profile? 2. The ACOGs that were shown - compact or full size?
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 10:01:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2003 6:11:15 PM EDT by 556Cliff]
Your right, my post count has went up by about 10 on this section of the forum alone, all because I had to post IBTL, and thats only one day worth. I'll try to stop but it's so addicting.
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 10:06:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2003 10:11:24 AM EDT by Va_Dinger]
Face_N_The_Crowd, I didn't see the video myself. But, I'm willing to bet a paycheck they were AN/PAQ2 Infrared Laser pointers/Illuminators. I can't comment on the ACOGS.
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 10:12:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2003 10:19:17 AM EDT by Horik]
Originally Posted By Va_Dinger: Face_N_The_Crowd, I didn't see the video myself. But, I'm willing to bet a paycheck they were AN/PAQ2 Infared Laser pointers/Illuminators. I can't comment on the ACOGS.
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Your correct! Alot of PEQ2's and PAC4's. Mainly PEQ2's of course! Most of the operators have them mounted at the 12 oclock top rail. One reason being the tac light rides on the side rail (left or right) depending. Some folks mount their PEQ/PAQ on the side rail as well. These devices are IR laser aimer/illuminators for those who may not know. 2. All the ACOGS were compacts if memory serves though I'll be replaying it today to make sure!
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 11:34:38 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2003 11:37:51 AM EDT by wyv3rn]
Originally Posted By Va_Dinger: Dam it, I missed it. Anybody want to sell a copy? I have to work during both of its replays.
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I'm sorry, I didn't tape it, but you can purchase it from PBS's website. I think it's like $19 though which is kind of high. Atleast you're contributing to public broadcasting. I've purchased a couple PBS videos in my time. [:)] Edited: Sorry.. read down further in the post I see others are making copies.
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 11:40:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2003 11:41:54 AM EDT by wyv3rn]
Originally Posted By C4iGrant: wyv3rn, you missed the part about putting a BUIS on the flattop as well. Your can mount a AA model and a NV device all day long, but you can't get all three on there... C4
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I am sorry, I meant to include the BUIS. Why can't a BUIS, NV and AA EOTech fit on the top rail when you have CAR handguards? What exactly is stopping it? The CAR handguards don't interfere with the AA EOTech and you can mount it on the last notch of the upper. This leaves the same amount of room on the upper between the BUIS and the "AA" EOTech for NV as an "N" battery model. So what exactly is it that stops you from mounting NV with a BUIS and "AA" Eotech when using CAR handguards?
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 12:20:57 PM EDT
Go to [url]www.pbs.org[/url] and put in your zip code to find the station in your area. You may need to search for "National Geographic" and look for "Inside Special Forces" from there. I have to wait a whole week!!!
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 12:36:46 PM EDT
This is the "reporting America at War" isn't it?
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 12:52:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By whywork40: This is the "reporting America at War" isn't it?
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No, it's called "Inside Special Forces".
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 1:04:03 PM EDT
Ya', do what M4-guy said. I was'nt thinking when I posted those replay times. Unless you live in my area they will nost likely differ. We actually have two PBS stations here that play many of the same programs on differing days. Maybe everyone does.......Hmmmmm! The zipcode thing will tell you though!
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 1:05:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2003 1:09:16 PM EDT by SMGLee]
wyv3rn, Several points I like to bring up on your post. 1. EOTech by far has the best FOV on any red dot optic on the market. the single pane system with laser projection provide the operators with quick target acquisition in fluid and dynamics environment such as CQB. 2. Mounting the EOTech up front on the handguard sometimes is not the most optimal position, it compromise the balance of the rifle, a front end heavy rifle is like a big heavy caar, hard to get it moving and hard to get it to stop. a fast action rifle has to be able to swing fast to the target and this is why you will see most of the operators will mount either EOTech or Aimpoint on the receiver vs. the handguard. 3. As far as mounting a NV behind the red dot, it is the most uncomfortable position to use your NVG, I have never see any operator use it in this manner except if the operator is hunker behind a berm or fox hole. from prone shooting position the NVG behind the red dot is a good setup, but for anything else, the PVS14 is on the helmet and the PEQ2c is turned on for target engagement at night. it is a bitch to have to log the rifle around at everything you want to see or ID. the NVG behind the optic is a good idea but without too much real world application. 4. The N cell provide a 150 hours continuous operation time, this is a lot of time operating. those guys might be operating for three to four days straight and will not tap the EOTech battery capability. I have always post telling the board members the EOTech is fast becoming the favorite CQB optic of choice with the Special operations communities, this is just one more proof.
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 1:18:00 PM EDT
I agree with the above......... BTW Chen, email inbound with a question attached!
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 2:34:38 PM EDT
I agree with pretty much everything you've said SMGLee. I've been planning on getting an EOTech (one day) pretty much from the start. I pointed out the fact they they use the "low battery life" model because I found it interesting considering that that seems to be the #1 argument against it. If they don't have a problem with the "N" battery version, I seriously doubt civilians living in the states will have any problem going to the grocery store to buy "N" batteries on occation. That said, I am interested in getting the AA version. I've known this whole time that I want an EOTech, but I keep jumping back and forth between the two models. I've also heard arguments why a rifle-mounted NV is better than helmet mounted. I forget them at the moment though. That's not the point though, I want to make sure the CAPABILITY is there so when I do have NV one day, I can choose for myself. I've always thought (and I thought I saw a picture) that the "AA" EOTech could mount on the flat-top along with a BUIS and NV as long as CAR handguards were used. Now I am being told otherwise. My ONLY CONCERN is sorting this out once and for all.
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 2:39:51 PM EDT
Wyv3rn, first of all, the 552 will mount to your flat top and still allow a NV attachment and BUIS as long as you use KAC RAS, RAS2, FF RAS, ARMS #50 SIR or standard CAR handguards. the only handguards that will not work is the fat double heat shield M4 handguards. As far as the battery augment, who is the people complaining?? Most of all the complaining comes from civilian sector, the military users are mostly satisfied with the battery performance of the N cell, and if they feel the N cell lack in battery life the AA version is there as need it. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 3:15:45 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SMGLee: first of all, the 552 will mount to your flat top and still allow a NV attachment and BUIS as long as you use KAC RAS, RAS2, FF RAS, ARMS #50 SIR or standard CAR handguards. the only handguards that will not work is the fat double heat shield M4 handguards.
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I thought so, thank you for putting this to rest once and for all.
As far as the battery augment, who is the people complaining?? Most of all the complaining comes from civilian sector, the military users are mostly satisfied with the battery performance of the N cell, and if they feel the N cell lack in battery life the AA version is there as need it.
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When did I ever say someone was complaining? All I said was it seems to be the #1 argument against it. There is a difference. Aimpoint users (the ones that don't like the EOTech, not all of them, this is not meant as blanket statement of Aimpoint users) point out the "short battery life" of the EOTech in general (including the AA model) as an important reason to choose an Aimpoint over and EOTech. My point was that as a civilian, it is easier to get your hands on batteries than as an operator, in another country, out in the field. And even the "N" cell EOTech has enough battery life for SF operators. So unless you're just so incredibily lazy that you don't want to ever have to change your batteries, the battery-life argument becomes a mute point when talking in regards to practical defense purposes.
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 3:51:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Face_N_The_Crowd: Ok to keep the mods happy - I have two AR specific questions: 1. What was the device that I saw on many of there ARs that was nearest the muzzle / ahead of the EOTechs / mounted on the handguards? It looked to be about 3" wide and it was flat in profile
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Some more info for you: cut-n-paste http://www.tjacorp.com/insight_technology_incorporated.htm
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 4:09:18 PM EDT
I watched it, really good. First thing I noticed were the EOtech's and the supressors (?Knight?). Those are some mean lookin' S.O.B.'s!! The one guy was bald on the top, but still looked like he wanted to rip off your head [:D] I also liked that ex-kickboxer guy that kicked in the caged window. Those SF guys do some pretty sweet stuff. I was going to call my friend to tell him it was on, but couldn't drag myself off the couch to get the phone! [:D]
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 4:41:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Horik: I will be re-recording it again tonight since I did'nt get the tape in and hit the record button till about 10 miutes into the show last night. If anyone wants copies I can do it.....just pay me postage costs and a buck or two for the video. email AYhorik@aol.com and title it PBS. Seems alot of the Aimpoints were seen in Astan and the later Iraq stuff showed alot of Eo's. All good gear of course!
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I just might have to take you up on that offer. I think I'll fire you an e-mail once I get home.
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 5:15:12 PM EDT
OK, lemme make sure I have this correct. The next showing will be at 5AM? I guess since it is PBS the time isnt a big deal but still seems strange. I'm gonna set the vcr to record it so I want to be sure. Thanks.
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 5:40:28 PM EDT
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 6:17:47 PM EDT
No problem.....shoot me an email!
Link Posted: 11/7/2003 5:07:27 AM EDT
Hmmm, the EOtech could just be a METT-T type of thing. In Afghanistan I noticed a lot of ACOGs and Aimpoints. In Iraq, when they were door-kicking, I saw a lot of EOtechs and one Aimpoint. If you are kicking down doors, the EOtech is a tough optic to beat. Dragging a rifle up and over the fields of Afghanistan with little logistical support from the U.S. - I'd probably not want an EOtech.
Link Posted: 11/7/2003 6:30:17 AM EDT
i have seen a lot of photos of guys in iraq with AA eotechs. i haven't seen many photos of the N size eotechs at all. it's interesting to see such a wide variety of gear in use.
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