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Posted: 11/4/2003 2:06:36 AM EDT
What makes this so expensive to make comparitively? Reliability wise this whole design seems to me to be superior to the normal AR design. I have been thinking real hard about getting a rifle of this design, yet the prices are really high. Just wanted to know why? Thanks
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 3:14:51 AM EDT
I too think it would be an improvement to the current system. Most likely wasn't done to save $$ or to keep the design as simple as possible. Sure would cut down on cleaning time wouldn't it. Shabo
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 6:11:44 AM EDT
If you like that, check out the Robinson M96.
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 10:00:14 AM EDT
The gas impingement design currently used in the M16, etc was utilized to SAVE WEIGHT... If you want to see examples of gas pistons in Stoner's designs, check out the AR-18, '86 LMG, and a few others. Hope this helps, Clint
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 10:43:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By havoc: The gas impingement design currently used in the M16, etc was utilized to SAVE WEIGHT... If you want to see examples of gas pistons in Stoner's designs, check out the AR-18, '86 LMG, and a few others. Hope this helps, Clint
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Stoner 86 LMG (A couple of years ago looked as if this LMG might go into production but now it appears dead.)
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 12:12:45 AM EDT
I know the Robinson M96 is that design. I was also under the impression that the new AR180B was of the same design to a point. The Daewoo DR200 would be similar along with the Galil, though these were more AR/AK hybrids. Just kinda wondered if weight savings is the only reason as there is no money savings? That M96 is expensive!
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 3:12:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/5/2003 3:29:38 AM EDT by mildbill39]
Could there be an accuracy advantage with direct impingement? All of the reciprocating parts are moving on bore axis. Also it allows a free-float barrel with only a gas tube to introduce temperature change stresses in barrel. Additionally; it could be that the unusually short bolt on the AR's may allow the lugs to self align to some extent. Just trying to figure why AR's seem to be so consistenly accurate, even the ones with very thin barrels.
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 3:36:59 AM EDT
The AR system reduces the amount of mass in motion allowing for a lighter gun with less recoil and less distrubance to the shooters aim as a result. Less mass in motion also means less wear and tear. It is actually a great system. As for the reliability issue, I doubt that an M1 or M14 could fire the same number of rounds as an AR without failure. Early M1's suffered from many reliability problems and fixes were found. Neither was used a full auto(although I know the M14 could fire auto it was not used that way, and I was a unit armorer during the use of the M14) That said, I would rather the AR been a reduced 30 cal cartridge than a 22. Someday I will build an AR47 just for the hell of it.
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 4:13:14 AM EDT
Check out the ZM Weapons piston conversion for the AR...but beware...this sweet little baby is not cheap. A member of this board is also teching out a much more affordable piston operated upper he wants to market...I have fired one of the early versions of this kit and it was VERY, VERY smooth....he has many (if not most of) the bugs worked out....so who knows what you may see in the future.
Link Posted: 11/26/2003 3:11:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By desertmoon: Check out the ZM Weapons piston conversion for the AR...but beware...this sweet little baby is not cheap. A member of this board is also teching out a much more affordable piston operated upper he wants to market...I have fired one of the early versions of this kit and it was VERY, VERY smooth....he has many (if not most of) the bugs worked out....so who knows what you may see in the future.
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ZM is still direct gas impingement, still uses gas rings, they just make it look different. And yes, it does run very smooth, thank you.[:D]
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