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Posted: 11/2/2003 7:08:04 PM EDT
I shot my new colt M4 at the range the other day, it was brand new so I was also breaking it in. I only had an hour of range time and 300 rounds of winchester, so I shot it all in like forty minutes. The barrel would smoke after 30 round clips, I think this was the oil on it or the new finish baking. I figured that an M16 would get way hotter, so mine would be fine.

My question is, was this too much ammo in that amount of time. Can you damage the gun, make the barrel too hot? What can an AR really handle?
Link Posted: 11/2/2003 7:18:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/2/2003 7:19:35 PM EDT by VA-gunnut]
Originally Posted By:MurdochsM4 I shot my new colt M4 at the range the other day, it was brand new so I was also breaking it in. I only had an hour of range time and 300 rounds of winchester, so I shot it all in like forty minutes. The barrel would smoke after 30 round clips, I think this was the oil on it or the new finish baking. I figured that an M16 would get way hotter, so mine would be fine. My question is, was this too much ammo in that amount of time. Can you damage the gun, make the barrel too hot? What can an AR really
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I can't believe you used the dreaded C word in your post.[spank] [:D]
Link Posted: 11/2/2003 7:18:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/2/2003 7:20:00 PM EDT by fight4yourrights]
You were only about 1/2 way to having a problem. [b]Rate of Fire[/b] Maximum rate of aimed semiautomatic fire is 45 rounds/minute. Sustained rate of fire is 12 to 15 rounds per minute. At this rate the barrel will never overheat to the point rounds are able to 'cook off' (rounds fire due to the heat of the chamber - an uncontrolled 'full auto' kind of effect). To 'Cook Off' you would need to fire off 140 round in full auto (or VERY quickly in semi-auto). This 'Cook Off' point is for A1, A2, or M4 profile barrels (HBARS would take more rounds). At this point you have a DANGER of 'Cook Off', but it is not guaranteed.
Link Posted: 11/2/2003 8:15:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/2/2003 8:27:19 PM EDT by CJan_NH]
Murdoch, I make it a point to torture test every new gun to make sure it will be reliable when hot. Any gun is reliable when cold, but if it's still problem-free when hot you know that it should stand up to anything you can throw at it in a defensive situation. After the first 200 (gentle and slow) rounds through my new 6400c I let it cool down and then cleaned the barrel. Once it was cool I dumped four mags (120 rounds) through it as fast as I could pull the trigger and reload. My goal is to get as close to the maximum rate of fire that fight4yourrights outlined in his post. In the end of the four mag dump the handguards were hot to the touch and the barrel was steaming-but it still ran perfectly. I let it cool to the point where I could touch the barrel with bare hands and then repeated it [b]six times[/b] without cleaning (840 rounds total plus the 200 initial rounds). As far as I'm concerned if an AR can't handle that without a malfunction it's a piece of junk.
Link Posted: 11/2/2003 8:51:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/2/2003 8:59:09 PM EDT by MurdochsM4]
Hey thanks for the info., I feel a little better now. Im not quite understanding though; maximum rate of fire is 45 rounds, but if you keep that up it will overheat, is that what your saying? Or you can shoot 12-15 per minute and it will never overheat? Cjan I was shooting like you, I fired about 70 rounds out of my three magazines at once and then reloaded. So I guess if the max rate is 45 rounds, 70 would be too much in less than a minute? The only thing that I didn't do was fire the first 200 rounds gently; its my first AR and I was having a little too much fun draining the high caps, what a blast! The gun functioned flawlessly, I was just worried about overheating the barrel, sounds like I'll be O.K. though!
Link Posted: 11/2/2003 8:55:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By VA-gunnut: I can't believe you used the dreaded C word in your post.[spank] [:D]
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Damnit! Thats like the third time I've done that, and I've been caught each time!
Link Posted: 11/2/2003 9:37:35 PM EDT
Not trying to be funny.. My dad had an SP1 carbine (some 20yrs ago) W/ pencil thin bbl. He lit a cigarette off of it on several occasions as it was THAT hot. Talk about gun abuse... John
Link Posted: 11/2/2003 9:48:50 PM EDT
Got an Armalite Commando my department was testing so hot the gas tube turned perminently purple and the front sight expanded so much the cross pins started walking out [:D]
Link Posted: 11/2/2003 9:57:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lumpy196: Got an Armalite Commando my department was testing so hot the gas tube turned perminently purple and the front sight expanded so much the cross pins started walking out [:D]
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I'll bet it still shoots fine-does it? A well built AR can certainly take a pounding.
Link Posted: 11/2/2003 10:09:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/2/2003 10:10:18 PM EDT by Lumpy196]
All Colt on the Commandos now. Thats all Im saying.
Link Posted: 11/2/2003 10:13:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lumpy196: All Colt on the Commandos now. Thats all Im saying.
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Oops. Sorry I asked [:I]
Link Posted: 11/2/2003 10:20:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MurdochsM4: Damnit! Thats like the third time I've done that, and I've been caught each time!
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We're pretty good about that here
Link Posted: 11/2/2003 11:01:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MadProfessor:
Originally Posted By MurdochsM4: Damnit! Thats like the third time I've done that, and I've been caught each time!
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We're pretty good about that here
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If I use the word "clip" around my father to describe a detachable magazine you'd think the gates of hell were opening. He's the same way about the word "gun" when describing a rifle-those are two of his biggest pet peeves [:D] I can remember as a teen reponding once with a smartass remark, something like "Hey [i]JARHEAD![/i] [b]YOU[/b] were the one [b]camping[/b] in the jungle of Vietnam in 68, not me..." Ouch... He's pretty quick for an old bastard. Gunny Hartman is a leotarded, sashaying fairy compared to my old man.
Link Posted: 11/2/2003 11:25:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lumpy196: Got an Armalite Commando my department was testing so hot the gas tube turned perminently purple and the front sight expanded so much the cross pins started walking out [:D]
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Waaa! I'm jealous. I want to do that too, just not with my own rife. I want a duty weapon so baaaaad!
Link Posted: 11/2/2003 11:32:16 PM EDT
Surefire M500 forearms S-U-C-K for ventilation on full auto.
Link Posted: 11/2/2003 11:52:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/2/2003 11:54:04 PM EDT by CJan_NH]
Originally Posted By Lumpy196: Surefire M500 forearms S-U-C-K for ventilation on full auto.
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I remember that you mentioned this once when I asked about a suitable light for my Colt M4 carbine. Is the ventilation with a 500a worse than the stock dual shield M4 handguards? I really, really, REALLY ([:)]) like the idea of the 500a but I'm holding off due to your advice the last time I asked about it. I have a Surefire forend on one of my 20" Colt HBARs, but that rifle doesn't see anything near the volume of fire that this new carbine does. If I don't want a vertical foregrip (I don't) what should I do? Picatinny rail with conventional Surefire attached via weaver type rings? Don't mean to hijack the thread, but I've been fretting about this since I talked to you about it the last time.
Link Posted: 11/3/2003 3:51:39 AM EDT
[img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=12876[/img]
Link Posted: 11/3/2003 5:22:26 AM EDT
Whew! I thought for a minute there, the 'C-Word' was C-O-L-T. . . . . . .
Link Posted: 11/3/2003 5:42:41 AM EDT
I have fired the M-16 till the gas tube was red at night, no problems.
Link Posted: 11/3/2003 6:01:49 AM EDT
In an M16 you will damage the gas tube and render it inoperable before you can damage the barrel. Fire away.
Link Posted: 11/3/2003 7:10:58 AM EDT
That was just a mild warm-up. You could have done easily twice that and still had no worries.
Link Posted: 11/3/2003 8:41:16 AM EDT
In semi-auto, it is almost impossible to damage the weapon, unless you are really dumping a lot of mags in a very short period of time. I do Full-Auto C-Mag dumps all the time (100 rounds in 8 seconds), no problem. Did see a Gas Tube melt at 175 rounds in FA, and another friend melted Bolt rings after a couple of C-Mag dumps.
Link Posted: 11/3/2003 10:00:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By CJan_NH:
Originally Posted By Lumpy196: Surefire M500 forearms S-U-C-K for ventilation on full auto.
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I remember that you mentioned this once when I asked about a suitable light for my Colt M4 carbine. Is the ventilation with a 500a worse than the stock dual shield M4 handguards? I really, really, REALLY ([:)]) like the idea of the 500a but I'm holding off due to your advice the last time I asked about it. I have a Surefire forend on one of my 20" Colt HBARs, but that rifle doesn't see anything near the volume of fire that this new carbine does. If I don't want a vertical foregrip (I don't) what should I do? Picatinny rail with conventional Surefire attached via weaver type rings? Don't mean to hijack the thread, but I've been fretting about this since I talked to you about it the last time.
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On a semi-auto, I dont think the 500 would be a problem unless you are planning ondoing A LOT of rapid fire in one session. As for the Surefire, there are literaly a dozen mounts that you can bolt to your forearm, front sight base, or barrel, from Surefire, GG&G, Wilson, etc.
Link Posted: 11/3/2003 8:20:15 PM EDT
Thank you Lumpy [:)]
Link Posted: 11/3/2003 8:39:55 PM EDT
My question is, was this too much ammo in that amount of time. Can you damage the gun, make the barrel too hot? What can an AR really handle?
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At Knob Creek, Oct. 2001 I watched one of the Bower's types run three Beta-C mags then seven USGI 30's as fast as he could change the mags and squash the trigger. The upper was a Latin-American-Surplus-Beat-To-Crap-Parts-Kit M16A2 unit. 510 rounds took about a minute-and-a-quarter. No jams, and the gas tube was glowing visibly on a sunny morning. Mind you, I did not look at the bore after the thing had cooled, so it might now have a generous leade to the rifling.
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 9:28:42 AM EDT
So... who makes a 16", 1/7 twist, chrome-lined, 4150 steel, mid-length gas system with a water-cooled barrel? [;)]
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 9:45:51 AM EDT
I wanna know that too! And I could even do without the watercooled part!
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 9:51:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2003 9:53:40 AM EDT by CJan_NH]
Oops. Never mind.
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 8:58:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2003 8:58:46 PM EDT by Hank_Rearden1]
Originally Posted By Geohans: Whew! I thought for a minute there, the 'C-Word' was C-O-L-T. . . . . . .
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Same here sort-of... only I thought the "C-word" was referring to Hillary Clinton. :)
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 3:34:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Geohans: Whew! I thought for a minute there, the 'C-Word' was C-O-L-T. . . . . . .
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I didn't think of that one, I guess he used the dreaded C word twice in one post. [;)]
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