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Posted: 10/29/2003 9:57:46 PM EDT
I have been hearing everyone walking on egg shells when someone mentions threading a post ban barrel for a muzzle brake or putting a pistol grip on a thumb hole mak90. In 10 years i have yet to hear about anyone getting into trouble for adding a deadly feature to a post ban rifle, have you? I mean what's the A.T.F. going to do take away your birthday? Your not making a machinegun for crying out loud. It would be like running your truck without a muffler, straight pipes. I guess if someone was to kill someone else and get caught with a post ban gun with pre ban features i guess you would go to hell twice right. If you guys have heard of anyone getting into hot water over a telescoping stock or a flash suppressor let me know. i think the D.C sniper had his bushy threaded w/ a flash hider, guess he'll die twice. i'm just curious as if the U.S. GOVERNMENT is enforcing these retarted laws or blowing smoke up our butts. Thanks i've been meaning to speak my mind on this dumb ass law.
BILLYXM15
Link Posted: 10/29/2003 11:32:28 PM EDT
what's the ATF going to do? at best take your guns away..worst..probably throw your ass in prison. i havn't heard of anyone getting in trouble..i'm not going to volunteer to be the first to do it though.
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 12:42:40 AM EDT
Originally Posted By billyxm15: I have been hearing everyone walking on egg shells when someone mentions threading a post ban barrel for a muzzle brake or putting a pistol grip on a thumb hole mak90. In 10 years i have yet to hear about anyone getting into trouble for adding a deadly feature to a post ban rifle, have you? I mean what's the A.T.F. going to do take away your birthday? Your not making a machinegun for crying out loud. It would be like running your truck without a muffler, straight pipes. I guess if someone was to kill someone else and get caught with a post ban gun with pre ban features i guess you would go to hell twice right. If you guys have heard of anyone getting into hot water over a telescoping stock or a flash suppressor let me know. i think the D.C sniper had his bushy threaded w/ a flash hider, guess he'll die twice. i'm just curious as if the U.S. GOVERNMENT is enforcing these retarted laws or blowing smoke up our butts. Thanks i've been meaning to speak my mind on this dumb ass law. BILLYXM15
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[noclue]
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 1:22:53 AM EDT
[beathorse]
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 5:40:45 AM EDT
The penalty for manufacturing a postban into a preban carries the same prison time fine as manufacturing an illegal machinegun. To my knowledge there has only been one case where someone was taken to court on this and nothing ever became of it. The difference is that Gun laws only keep honest people honest, evil intent cannot be governed by laws or restrictions. If someone did thread a barrel or put a collapsing stock on a postban lower then just keep your mouth shut about it. As the Agent put it to me when I was grilling her with questions and contradictions to their law, [b][red]"DON'T BREAK THE LAW WITH IT AND DON'T WORRY ABOUT IT"[/b][/red] Life is to short to toil over this shit.......
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 6:58:59 AM EDT
No doubt the law is bad, maybe even un enforceable, but it is a felony if you get convicted, and that would mean the termination of the individuals right to own firearms forever. The loopholes in the law, might be what will guarantee its sunset.
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 7:50:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/30/2003 7:52:36 AM EDT by EL_TIRADOR]
Originally Posted By billyxm15: I have been hearing everyone walking on egg shells when someone mentions threading a post ban barrel for a muzzle brake or putting a pistol grip on a thumb hole mak90. In 10 years i have yet to hear about anyone getting into trouble for adding a deadly feature to a post ban rifle, have you? I mean what's the A.T.F. going to do take away your birthday? Your not making a machinegun for crying out loud. It would be like running your truck without a muffler, straight pipes. I guess if someone was to kill someone else and get caught with a post ban gun with pre ban features i guess you would go to hell twice right. If you guys have heard of anyone getting into hot water over a telescoping stock or a flash suppressor let me know. i think the D.C sniper had his bushy threaded w/ a flash hider, guess he'll die twice. i'm just curious as if the U.S. GOVERNMENT is enforcing these retarted laws or blowing smoke up our butts. Thanks i've been meaning to speak my mind on this dumb ass law. BILLYXM15
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Right On! ;~) Iraq and Afghanistan Pics: www.airfieldops.com
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 8:16:04 AM EDT
Not this again... If you want to break the law, why ask other people to rationalize it for you. A felony is a felony, it doesn't matter whether you think it should be legal or not, it isn't
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 10:48:08 AM EDT
I'm not breaking the law, nor do i plan on doing so. All i am doing is asking a simple question. I too am afraid of getting my weapons taken away for a stupid telescoping stock. i'm just curious to see if the govt is taking action on these laws. i go gun shows and see post ban lowers on pre ban uppers. same as making a machine gun huh, no one seems worried. Here's a question: if post ban weapons are banned also and the manufacturing of them is illegal. we will probobly be grandfathered in, then since the guns are banned already, can we put deadly features on them? BILLYXM15
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 11:02:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By _DR: Not this again...
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I will keep it short... If you use common sense you can see that as long as you keep it in your house and shoot on private or secluded ranges, you can never get caught; as long as your not doing anything else illegal, thats the only way you could get busted. Although I wouldn't personally take the risk, I don't really need a flashider that bad; its your choice. I expect to see a post from TNfrank soon...
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 11:34:01 AM EDT
Do a search We beat the hell out of this very recently... NOBODY can prove anybody has ever been popped for this because the BATF could care less about this crap..... None the less do what yo need to do that makes you feel good..... %Rememeber that guy that got caught with 60 machine guns??????????in Kansas or someting Probation thats it probation... Now do you really think the ATF is gonna beat your door down for a freaking bayo lug or flash hider... Use common sense
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 1:24:33 PM EDT
Why MurdochsM4, it's so nice of you to think about me,LOL. Like has been said, a felony IS a felony, that being said, if a flash hider suppressis a flash and no one is around to see it is it still a felony? Like someone else said, if you keep it in your home and shoot on a privite range then at what point will the feds find out that you have an "evil" AW ? It's like the millitary and the "gay" thing, don't ask, don't tell. The sooner this B.S. law sunsets the better. And thanks again MurdochsM4 for remembering me. Talk to ya' later pards, TN.Frank
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 2:37:55 PM EDT
You might want to look over in the Legal forum too. This has been discussed there many many times. Like the other folks said: **It's a felony. **It's federal. **You may never get caught. **Take the chance if you want to. But the big problem for most people isn't the worry about jail time, it's the money their defense attorney is going to charge them, win or lose--as much as the traffic will bear--say starting with $10,000 for a normal guy. If you have lots of money and lots to lose, multiply that by____. If you don't do it you won't have to worry about it. You could take that $10,000 and buy several prebans with all the evil features you want, and avoid the sleep you're going to lose worrying about your new roommate's sexual habits. "Nuff said?
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 3:23:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/30/2003 3:25:25 PM EDT by _DR]
Originally Posted By MurdochsM4:
Originally Posted By _DR: Not this again...
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I will keep it short... If you use common sense you can see that as long as you keep it in your house and shoot on private or secluded ranges, you can never get caught; as long as your not doing anything else illegal, thats the only way you could get busted. Although I wouldn't personally take the risk, I don't really need a flashider that bad; its your choice. I expect to see a post from TNfrank soon...
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While what you say is true, all it takes is for your house to be burglarized or for you to have a serious car accident on the way to the local range, where you are carted away to the hospital for your rifle ends up in the hands of local LE. That means it can be scrutinized by a local branch BATF agent since the local LEOs are often ignorant of current regulations concerning "assault rifles" (nothing against them)and will call if a suspicious looking weapon turns up. In this way, the discovery of the violation can be completely out of your hands. It is a lottery with odds stacked in the favor of the violator, but still a lottery. TNfrank must be on vacation....
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 4:10:15 PM EDT
NO DR, I'm here , it's just that Hockey is on and I'd rather watch the game then rant about something that I think we've all beat to death over the last couple of weeks. Plus, I had to work on a '63 Sharps paper ctg. rifle that I got today. Oh well, back to the game. The Bruins are off to a good start this year.
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 4:19:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TNFrank: NO DR, I'm here , it's just that Hockey is on and I'd rather watch the game then rant about something that I think we've all beat to death over the last couple of weeks. Plus, I had to work on a '63 Sharps paper ctg. rifle that I got today. Oh well, back to the game. The Bruins are off to a good start this year.
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You are right, it has been beat to death.
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 5:30:25 PM EDT
realistically, yer only possibly problem would come from the atf (and they're probably looking for bigger offenders). we local LE's aren't too concerned about it. to me, an "evil feature" is a criminal hand wrapped around the grip or a bore axis in alignment with me. other than that, i don't care how yer guns looks. you could hang a xmas wreath around the muzzle if ya like. i went to a call, once, (argument between roomies - one party is armed) no info avail on "armed?" we get there, homeboy's got him an AR, about 5 hicaps. it's got a laser under the barrel, a magnification scope on top, and OH MY GOD... A COLLAPSIBLE STOCK!!!!!! well, no violence or threats had occurred, he just had it in his car. i start bs'n w/him an ask "you put that stock on there" he says "yeah, i think the rifle's pre ban" LOL, nice try. i say "then why you got a neutered barell?" he's like "i still have the original stock" i say "you might wanna put it back on" THE END, we give him his rifle back and go on to break up some other fighters.
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 5:39:12 PM EDT
There's a White unmarked van with tinted windows outside your window! But don't let that stop you from threading everything and your pee pee too!
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 8:10:24 PM EDT
I like the old UNION adage"outta sight,outta mind"whatever you have whatever configuration shoot on private land and ranges keep your mouth shut about what you have and also you dont want people to know what you have because they might get the idea that they want to releive you of your personal property by stealing it.If you are not doing criminal things to gain attention dont worry.And weather its pre or post ban, assemled or factory on public lands and ranges they will draw attention no matter how its configured pre,post or franken build.
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 8:29:46 PM EDT
Guys, all the nit picking, BATFE paranoia, & legal hair splitting will fall by the wayside if we do our part to prevent the AW ban from being re-authorized (or made MUCH worse) next September!!! To this end, I direct you to... [url=www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=203989]The Essential "End the AW Ban" Contact List & Sample Letter Thread[/url] Think about it... you can spend lots of time & energy arguing about this nonsense on the Internet, OR you can refocus your efforts, and actually do something to help end the AW ban, thus making this entire topic irrelevant! The choice is yours...
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 8:37:07 PM EDT
Originally Posted By _DR: While what you say is true, all it takes is for your house to be burglarized or for you to have a serious car accident on the way to the local range, where you are carted away to the hospital for your rifle ends up in the hands of local LE.
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Police don't search cars that are in accidents, unless there is negligence suspected, DUI, etc. They call a tow truck and the car is taken to a place of your choosing. Now if your talking about a jaws of life situation where the whole car is torn apart and the gun is lying on the ground and your in critical condition, and then an officer charges you for the awb violation; and then magical flying elephants appear overhead and you are whisked off to balfazar to meet the three headed dragon... don't think so. If an awb violation gun was stolen from your house, then you would simply claim that all modifications were made by the thief if it was ever recovered, which it never would be. Again, I personally would not take the risk, nor would I post it on an internet board if I did so.
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 8:39:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/30/2003 8:49:10 PM EDT by MurdochsM4]
Originally Posted By NYPatriot: Guys, all the nit picking, BATFE paranoia, & legal hair splitting will fall by the wayside if we do our part to prevent the AW ban from being re-authorized (or made MUCH worse) next September!!! To this end, I direct you to... [url=www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=203989]The Essential "End the AW Ban" Contact List & Sample Letter Thread[/url] Think about it... you can spend lots of time & energy arguing about this nonsense on the Internet, OR you can refocus your efforts, and actually do something to help end the AW ban, thus making this entire topic irrelevant! The choice is yours...
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Yes, talk is cheap, good idea NYPatriot. You know I was thinking, we should challenge the law and use the excuse that women need a telescoping stock to properly shoot an AR, which is mostly true. Then we could get some stand up woman to sue their asses and bring the whole gender issue into the mix. We could get the lesbos and feminists to fight for us saying that its a biast law that discriminates against women. I can see it now!
Link Posted: 10/31/2003 4:53:53 AM EDT
MurdochsM4, I see what you are saying but still don't agree completely. When I was a EMT-P in Lubbock, if we did an extrication on a wreck, and found a firearm in the vehicle, it was policy that we turn it over to the LEOIC on the scene. Perhaps they would ignore the fact that it was in violation,or perhaps they wouldn't notice it and return the rifle without issue. But I for one am not willing to take that chance. Like you said, everyone has to make their own decision on how they will follow or not follow this very ineffective, poorly thought out legislation.
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