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Posted: 10/19/2003 12:42:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2003 12:44:02 PM EDT by DEERSNIPER]
Has anyone ever been charged as a single offense (not an add-on charge) of violating the AWB. I have never heard of one and i think the only way you get charged is if the cop really wants to pin you with something or if it is an add-on charge.

Thanks,
DEERSNIPER

Edit for spelling.
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 1:15:23 PM EDT
So does that mean I can put a preban collapsible stock on my post ban M4 and chances are I won't have any trouble? What about at the gun range? I had an "acquaintance" that was arrested for possesion of a sawed off pistol grip shotgun, but I guess thats two charges right? Well I think he was underage or had just turned 18, he didn't go to jail more than a couple of days.
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 1:29:29 PM EDT
There were a couple of members here that found their weapons confiscated until it was verified that they were indeed legal.
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 2:32:29 PM EDT
a few years back a friend of mine took what he thought was a pre-ban colt into a gun store for a trigger job. the guy somehow knew at a glance the lower was post-ban, and wouldn't even touch the thing. he assured us that a lot of his customers are cops, and that we were VERY lucky none of them happened to be in the shop at the time. IMO if the FFL could tell it was a violation, most gun-loving LEO could as well.. and from my experience, most cops don't look the other way on an easy felony conviction. just my 2 cents.
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 3:28:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2003 3:29:05 PM EDT by DevL]
AWB is a federal violation and thus its going to be credit given to a federal LEO. I would not let an ATF or FBI agent see that rifle [;)] Local cops dont know crap about guns 99% of the time. I have had officers ask me if my rifle was legal (it was a postban AK with postban features but enought USA parts to have a pistol grip) when they pulled me over. If I did not live in Texas I am sure that it could have been a whole "I dont know if this is legal so I am gonna take it and see" from a cop that didnt know any better. If you are not being arrested you should have your weapon returned and if not file a complaint with IAD. If you want to violate the AWB and risk your entire lifetime of gun ownership becasue you cant wait 11 months for the ban to end thats your call but I would say your an idiot if you do that and deserve whatever you get.
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 4:06:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2003 3:43:04 AM EDT by TNFrank]
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Link Posted: 10/19/2003 4:31:59 PM EDT
Me too, what Frank said. 556Cliff
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 4:33:45 PM EDT
I will be nice till its time to not be nice. I will obey the law till its time to not obey the law. The line in the sand has not yet been crossed as far as assault weapons go. You can have preban features if you are willing to spend a little more. I am a law abiding citizen who does not just ignore laws as they suit me. I would not be so cavalier in my flaunting of federal laws on a public forum. [nono]
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 4:37:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TNFrank: What happens if in 11 months both pre and post ban guns are illegal to own? Will you then break the law and risk jail time to keep your post ban(and now illegal)gun? It may be a "devil may care" attidude but to hell with the AWB of '94. I'll build what I want to build and so long as I don't use it to commit a crime I don't see why it should matter one little bit. I know alot of you don't see it that way and would rather comply with the law, that's your choice, I'd rather ignore the unconstitutional law and take my chances. Our founding fathers risk everything, even their own lives for freedom, can we do less? Talk to ya' later. TN.Frank
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If more people were like this guy we would all be better off in the long run. They cant arest us all.
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 4:43:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2003 3:43:46 AM EDT by TNFrank]
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Link Posted: 10/19/2003 4:46:16 PM EDT
Our founding fathers risk everything, even their own lives for freedom, can we do less?
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it's a noble sentiment, but you've got to take a look at the risk versus the reward. putting together a hybrid rifle that violates the AWB is little more than a statement saying "this law is bullshit and i for one won't stand for it". it's admirable, certainly, but is it really worth the risk?
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 5:03:32 PM EDT
Well, that statement makes sense, but those who try to infringe upon our 2nd amendment right don't follow sense. They follow emotion, and stereotypes - that makes it difficult for us. The folks who created this land gave us the right to own and use firearms in the name of DEFENSE, not any sporting purposes. In every state, there is a 2nd amendment statement, and every one does not mention it. The 2nd states to no man woman or child may tamper with that right, much less tamper with what we may obtain. All of that, basically, allows us to slap on a bayonet lug and flash hider on every AR-15 there is. The AWB and Brady bill were both unconstitutional, and we technically do not have to obey them. On the other hand, antis don't care about it, and they have created a strong enough movement that anyone who defies them will be punished, unconstitutional or not. We all want to make out rifles 'pre-ban' style once again, and can, but we are all afraid of the consequences, and for good reason.
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 5:11:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2003 3:44:30 AM EDT by TNFrank]
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Link Posted: 10/19/2003 5:40:21 PM EDT
All that matters is if it was illegal when you did it. Something being legalized doesn't change the fact that it was illegal when you did it. You go to prison for breaking the law, even if that law ceases to exist the day after you are convicted.
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 5:50:52 PM EDT
Frank, I understand your frustration, but I think it would be more effective to force change by voting to change the laws, not to violate existing ones. If you violate a law, you may get convicted and you are done. But if you champion change in the laws, you can make a much larger impact, IMO.
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 5:55:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2003 5:56:25 PM EDT by 223kid]
one other thing to take into consideration - if you do get caught with a weapon that violates the AWB - when you get out of prison you will NEVER be able to legally own any firearm, ever again, period. F THAT.
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 5:57:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2003 3:45:12 AM EDT by TNFrank]
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Link Posted: 10/19/2003 7:12:03 PM EDT
We have had a Constitutional right to rebel ever since the first gun laws or restrictions were set in place. Personally, i feel that someday they will just push it too far, and we're going to break. I cant say when or where, or if i will be there on a bullhorn, but in 11 monthes, and if more bullshit gets passed i know that it will be a giant leap toward that breaking point. As for me, i'll admit it, i havent served in the military(student) and im not a cop, but i know the law and the history behind it and i know that all men are equal and are due equal rights, period. Its not a matter of hunting, or other bullshit the antis feed their soccer moms, the 2nd Amendment is part of the Bill of Rights, all other 9 amendments apply to the individual, why not this one? What we ALL need to do, is stand up and put the foot down and say this shit has to stop and fast. If a criminal were to break into your house, they say call 911, WHY? because they have guns. Hell, i say guns stop violence.
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 8:29:06 PM EDT
The problem is that if you get convicted you will change nothing. In fact you help the anti's by showing them that gun owners are not law abiding citizens. It would take EVERY person who owns an "Assualt Weapon" to collectively and publicly anouce that they would no longer fallow the unconstitional AWB to even have a chance at cousing a stirr. This would be vary hard orgainize and has a high chance of causing all AW's to be banned compleatly and all those who declared they would not fallow the law be labeled terrorists or some thing along those lines.
Link Posted: 10/19/2003 8:45:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2003 8:49:27 PM EDT by MurdochsM4]
Originally Posted By DevL: I will obey the law till its time to not obey the law. The line in the sand has not yet been crossed as far as assault weapons go. [nono]
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I agree with DevL. Its more than gun laws and I think that gun owners are some of the only people that understand that. All of the above comments you people mention are just the tip of the spear. I think every INTELLIGENT person in this country knows that the time is growing near, but now is not the time. You can taste it in the air, see it on the news and hear it from the police; Something is about to go down. This country has made it a crime to drive fast, do drugs, gamble, own assault weapons; and recently they've banned books containing the knowledge neccesary to build munitions. In some states terroristic threatining is a felony offense! What happened to freedom of speach and that goes for books too. As our govt. continues to pass trade agreements such as NAFTA the gap between the rich and poor will continue to grow; the influx of poor immigrants also widens this gap. The middle class is a dying breed in this country. And that is the plan as thought by many, which is to turn America into a third world country, meaning little to no middle class. As is happening now before our very eyes CEO's are getting record salaries, while the adjusted (for inflation) gross income for the poor is less than it was in the 60's in many states. Couple a third world America, with a China that is close to having the worlds largest economy, has just put a man in space; and has a country full of men with significantly less women. Most experts agree that the lack of women always leads to high levels of teststerone resulting in war. Factor in a nuclear N. Korea, Nuclear Iran, Nuclear Pakistan, Nuclear India that has almost used up all available natural resources and sources of energy; Now also factor the "new" superplague that is predicted by all the experts. Also a comeback of Sars also predicted this winter. A nuclear Israel thrown in the mix and a Syria with a stockpile of uncle saddams chemical weapons. Now what optimist can see all of these variables working themselves out in a natural peaceful way? Yes, I would say that the line in the sand is slowly dissapearing. Were Fucked, buy ammunition while you can.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 8:09:11 AM EDT
Sounds like a scenario right out of The Turner Diaries.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 10:21:36 AM EDT
Well I guess the answer to the original question is NO! Everybody here has heard of somebody or some other bull shit story about my best friends uncles sister heard of a guy whos related to the sherrif of town in another country blah blah blah. The answer is NO.. Nobody has heard or seen anybody ever get busted on the AWB........Period ever.... Un freakin beleivable the cowardice of the people on this board that shutter under some lawyers jerk off opinion about flash hiders and bayo lugs...... Again the answer is no, nobody has because its a stupid "Law". that will easily sunset.. Because flash hiders and Bayo lugs dont kill people......ANY jury will see this and the DOJ has better things to do then to bust some law abiding gun owner for having a Bayo lug or Flash hider on his weapon.... So to answer the original question.... NO And further more there are hundreds of laws that many of you self righteous aholes break.....that will get you more time.... But hey who's counting the number of BS deductions you take on your Tax return. Or the number of times you been speeding down the highway.. or the time in your youth that you got shit faced and drove drunk......All of us have broken laws that are DIRECTLY intended to save human life.....Not some dumb ass law that keeps you from putting a FH on or Bayonet..... So the answer again is NO WOuld the ATF take its time to look for AWB and then hand the case to the FED Pros ATT.?????the answer is NO COuld you imagine your self going to court in front of a jury and have a panel of twelve decide your fate on a Bayo lug...."your honor and ladies and gentleman of the jury", Here we have this evil man with w Flash hider... he never shot anybody with it but none the less he had it on a weapon and it was EVIL....... GIVE ME A BREAK! the Prosecutor and the ATF agent would be laughed out of the court!!!!!!!!!!! To answer your question NO Did this thread answer your question about the AWB? Could you read between the lines of hearsay and actual prosecutions?... These big cowboys here are the ATF poster children.. they have been frightened by our government in to submission......They are armchair warriors that would rather write a letter then stand up for there rights.....Stand up against useless gun laws that protect nobody.... the answer is no.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 11:05:24 AM EDT
you don't spend time in a federal prison for speeding or driving with beer on your breath. i think it's pretty unfair to challenge the intestinal fortitude of anyone who doesn't violate a federal law at the expense of making a simple statement that will go almost wholly unnoticed by the gun community and at the same time fan the flames of the anti-gun legislation. i can see it now.. "look how easy this guy created this EVIL weapon. we need to make it so people can't do that anymore!"
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 12:26:53 PM EDT
though my rifle doesn't have any preban features on it, i'm in total agreement with TNFrank [marines]
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 12:59:17 PM EDT
Hats off to the Americans/Patriots on this thread. [USA]
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 1:09:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 1:20:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/20/2003 1:21:53 PM EDT by DevL]
I suggest you go all the way and just drop in a DIAS and some full auto trigger components while your at it and march through downtown DC right up to the White House or Capitol Building and proclaim all gun laws are against the 2nd Amendment and dare them to try to take your rifle away. [:)] If you cant wait 11 months to put the parts back to preban config or are too much of a stingy penny pincher to spend the small amount of cash a preban requires over a postban you deserve a nice visit from the ATF as far as I am concerned. Hell I dont even have a problem with the $200 tax on suppressors and machineguns. What I am pissed about is that a tax is required on machineguns but they wont collect a mandatory tax. Seems unconstituional to me. Again I think its VERY STUPID to proclaim you have an illegal AW on a public forum. What are you thinking? [noclue]
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 1:28:12 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 1:38:06 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 2:01:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2003 3:46:59 AM EDT by TNFrank]
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Link Posted: 10/20/2003 2:11:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 2:29:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/20/2003 2:30:20 PM EDT by Spooge5150]
The real face behind the AWB. [url]http://feinstein.senate.gov/Photos_page/dfmtpress.htm[/url] Are you scared? Good! She wants you to be. Hard to believe that one person from California can change so much for the rest of us. Isn't it? [url]http://feinstein.senate.gov/assault_weapons_ban.html[/url] You have no idea how hard it was to type this site in, and browse it. ICK!
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 2:39:40 PM EDT
I think that it is not worth 10 years in club fed and never buying guns again just to have a flash hider and a bayo lug. do I agree with the law? No... Do I think that FHs and BLs are bad? No, I want one dearly... But it is not worth it.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 2:46:01 PM EDT
I think I can go another 11 months without "evil" features. Haven't bought any yet, don't see the risk being worth it. As long as it sunsets...
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 3:21:49 PM EDT
Again I think its VERY STUPID to proclaim you have an illegal AW on a public forum. What are you thinking?
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If this is directed at me, i'll let you know that my Bushy is a 100% legal pre-ban.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 3:48:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2003 3:47:41 AM EDT by TNFrank]
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Link Posted: 10/20/2003 5:31:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/20/2003 5:38:30 PM EDT by _DR]
Being convicted of a felony just to have a bayonet lug, flash hider and folding stock on an otherwise fully functional semiautomatic rifle is not patriotic, it is moronic. The kind of individuals who would fight for freedom against oppression will pick their battles carefully, if it ever comes to that, not run their mouths and piss away their freedom on trivialities like those enforced by the AWB. Individuals who brag of their intent to break the laws in public forums pose no threat to those who would take away our rights; they will be the easiest to suppress. It is the law abiding citizens who will be the ones they have to worry about if they ever go too far.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 5:51:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Blackjack272: The folks who created this land gave us the right to own and use firearms in the name of DEFENSE, not any sporting purposes. In every state, there is a 2nd amendment statement, and every one does not mention it. The 2nd states to no man woman or child may tamper with that right, much less tamper with what we may obtain.
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The 2nd isn't by definition defensive. If you meant in the defense of Liberty, you are correct. The Founders expected us to take the Offensive against Tyranny. Not merely await in defensive posture. In the rest of your post, I am in agreement. Jerry
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 6:02:50 PM EDT
Right on Frank!!!!! I agree with you 110%, I wouldn't stand behind you I'd stand beside you. If more people were like you we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. 556Cliff
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 6:17:59 PM EDT
ATF and the rest of the feds need to worry about illegal machine guns. Everyone knows one person that has one. I know someone that has one. I am not gonna say that I have a post-ban assault weapon in pre-ban configuation, but I will say this "If the ATF is looking at your weapons you have already screwed up anyway and a bayo lug or flashhider will not matter" In a little over 300 days the only prebans will be the unimportables like H+K, Russian, and Chinese. If there is a 1/2 second window between the 94 AWB and the 2004 AWB(if it happens) then all the post-94 and pre-94 will turn into PRE-BAN 2004 or just PREBANS. The price on all of the prebans will drop down some with the exception of the un-importables. Just my rambling. CHARLES
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 6:39:49 PM EDT
Well, I know someone who has a file started at the FBI now lol!
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 7:11:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2003 3:48:26 AM EDT by TNFrank]
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Link Posted: 10/20/2003 9:18:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DevL: I have had officers ask me if my rifle was legal (it was a postban AK with postban features but enought USA parts to have a pistol grip)[b] when they pulled me over.[/b] If I did not live in Texas I am sure that it could have been a whole "I dont know if this is legal so I am gonna take it and see" from a cop that didnt know any better. If you are not being arrested you should have your weapon returned and if not file a complaint with IAD.
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How could they see your gun when they pulled you over - you didn't have it in a case? (and why did they pull you over?) And they can't take your rifle because it "might" be illegal. If that were the case they could "stay ignorant" and merely take every rifle they saw to check it and see if it was "legal." They would have to arrest you before they take your rifle unless you let them have it.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 10:31:55 PM EDT
In a local pawn shop here there was a post-ban OLY lower assembled to a 16" pre-ban upper with a non-folding collapsable stock and it was selling for around $800.00 and guys they're still in business. I'm pretty sure that more than a few LEOs go there and I guess they didn't get too upset about it. Here's a little something I found out about cops particularly one that I play cards with every now and then. They are pretty much clueless when it comes to military type weapons and most are lucky enough to get to shoot one whether on the job or not. From my experience I seriously doubt that they can tell you exactly what the '94 AWB specifically deals with. Ask one and see what the response is. Police are more concerned about handguns than military type rifles and that's what they will most likely deal with in their line of work.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 11:06:37 PM EDT
There was a prohibition a few years ago - everyone ignored it, defied it or made criminals of themselves in spite of it and guess what happened? It went away. The AWB is no different, except here we have millions of gun owners happy not only to play nice with the gubment, but to lash out at those who are of strong enough stock to say "FU" to the silly law and go on with their lives. Rosa Parks has bigger balls than half this forum. Her fight wasn't about voting or free speech - she drew her line for a bus seat. A simple, token example of the tyranny placed on her. That's why you fight before the slope gets too slippery. If we all gave a big FU to the feds, the law would be meaningless. Cannot arrest us all. True enough, you may get your ass in a sling over violating 922 or the AWB, but it was never a carefree joy ride standing up for the constitution. Sermon over, back to your stalls. Farmer gubment is about to bring you some more slop.
Link Posted: 10/20/2003 11:16:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By criley:
Originally Posted By DevL: I have had officers ask me if my rifle was legal (it was a postban AK with postban features but enought USA parts to have a pistol grip)[b] when they pulled me over.[/b] If I did not live in Texas I am sure that it could have been a whole "I dont know if this is legal so I am gonna take it and see" from a cop that didnt know any better. If you are not being arrested you should have your weapon returned and if not file a complaint with IAD.
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How could they see your gun when they pulled you over - you didn't have it in a case? (and why did they pull you over?) And they can't take your rifle because it "might" be illegal. If that were the case they could "stay ignorant" and merely take every rifle they saw to check it and see if it was "legal." They would have to arrest you before they take your rifle unless you let them have it.
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This has happened to forum members. Go argue that it cant happen to them. PS: Anyone have a link to that thread... it is over a year old or know who it was that had to get the atty involved to get his rifle back? It was up north somewhere.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 4:51:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/23/2003 3:49:14 AM EDT by TNFrank]
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Link Posted: 10/21/2003 7:23:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/21/2003 7:36:47 AM EDT by 1ar4me]
TNfrank Dont feed the ATF poster Children.. They are wonderful and spouting off that thousands have been busted but cant show a lick of proof. Its again hearsay and bull shit......If you ever needed a friend to help fight for your rights and stand up against stupid laws that the ATF could careless to enforce you know who will be there for you or anybody else.....Sick just makes me sick these armchair bull shit artists. Spineless and week minded individuals will be the one to cower in the corners. The heroes and patriots will stand for what is right truthful and just. It has happened in every revolt/etc.I am certain when the AWB ceases these same people will shout loudly how they fought hard and how they took risks by writing there congressmen about the stupidity of a deadly flash hider and bayo lug....ooooooh aaaaaahhhh... As for the stupid laws and reference to Speeding drunk driving etc.... somebody mentioned that Fed time for this BS and that BS is worse... Well I can speak from a victims point of view. My best friend was killed by a drunk driver the driver got 5 years for murder...WHAT THE HELL do you think the Fed govt will do for a flash hider......GET REAL GUYS GROW A PAIR!
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 9:46:05 AM EDT
So all you armchair patrick Henrys: If the AWB is BS and should be ignored, have you ignored it, and notified the authorities as such??? Perhaps a letter, with pictures, to BATFE? If not, then this just comes off as a whole lot of internet tough guy crap. Time to step up to the plate and serve as the test case guinea pig for the AWB/RTKBA. Remember, our Founding Fathers, who you guys admire, had the courage of their convictions. They put their lives on the line. All you are risking is a lousy ten years, and loss of your firearms rights FOR LIFE. Any takers?
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 9:54:30 AM EDT
but i bet if ATF ever happened to show up where you shoot, that rifle would be apart (or you'd be slipping off into the woods/out the back door) in about 5 seconds. so exactly WHO is this statement being made to if nobody notices? Or is it just for the benefit of those of us on this thread with enough sense to say "yeah, this is a moronic law, like A LOT of other laws, but it's not worth going to prison for". i'm sure it takes HUGE balls and makes a terribly poignant statement to put together an illegal "pre-ban" and hide it in your closet, right? please.
Link Posted: 10/21/2003 11:09:59 AM EDT
I'll bet you none of us will ever find out.....because the BATF post ban and preban police squad has the time or the impression to do so because they know as well as we do that the law was bs to begin with...... You forget one thing the BATF is a taxing authority.. they care about revenue..... I am a CIII owner the only thing they care about is collection my money for a 200 dollar tax stamp.. otherwise they could careless who owns a machine gun or suppresor or cannon for that fact... You really think they give a damn about a bayo lug and flash hider? Check your self 223kid and all the rest of you. How many other silly laws are out there that the LEO of this world really dont care to enforce..... No one is going to prison. it wont happen dont kid yourself. I live in freedom. As for being a patrick henry and calling the leo to say hay here I am? Our for father did not do that DOubt I will either. Your going to find out how many Pre/post ban rifle have been out there after the threat is gone.. albeit a small threat. PAEBR332 You can do that for us.. I am certain with your tone that you would be the first to turn somebody in that doesnt believe the way you do. 223KID. I never run away from a fight....Sounds to me like you have or are planning on it... Seem you've got it all figured out........(how to run that is)
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