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Posted: 10/11/2003 3:32:22 PM EDT
I am planning on buying everything that I need to have a legally supressed AR in the near future. I have never actually heard a suppressed AR fire. How much will it supress normal ammo? I realize that there will be the sonic crack.....how much quieter is that than normal? Or is there sub-sonic ammo that I should shoot? What do you supressed experienced guys suggest?? Sorry for the quiet-shooting newby questions!
Link Posted: 10/11/2003 3:40:46 PM EDT
Most sub sonic ammo wont cycle the action (like the military blue tips) but some will and its VERY VERY expensive. Regular ammo will sound like a .22 rimfire. However at VERY close range there is not enough distance for the shockwave to form and there is no sonic crack. Hope that helps. Have a nice day.
Link Posted: 10/11/2003 3:42:54 PM EDT
I had a "Triple-X", and I had somebody fire it for me to listen to.... as an observer, standing 10 +/- ft to right rear of firearm, it makes a mellow "PUH" sound, and a "rip" noise like a bed sheet being torn as bullet flys downrange. As the shooter, it is a bit noisier, as you get to hear the crack of the muzzle blast hit inside the suppressor, and the operation noise of the rifle, no big deal.. I have a "WARRIOR" now, had my Triple-X upgraded, and still have not put a round through it yet, been maybe 2 months now.
Link Posted: 10/11/2003 3:52:19 PM EDT
i was told where you shoot has something to do with it as well. indoors=loud. don't want to be in areas where the sound bounces back at you.
Link Posted: 10/11/2003 11:23:48 PM EDT
Indoor suppressed shooting is almost ALL loud. Even if you have a super sonic crack, the suppressor effect makes it difficult to locate the origin of the crack after a small distance away (snipers like that). Beware subsonic .223 ammo when using a suppressor, subsonic ammo is frequently much more unstable, and the initial yawing may cause baffle strikes in some cans.
Link Posted: 10/11/2003 11:33:48 PM EDT
I’ve got a Gemtech M4-96C on a 10-inch Colt; much higher pitch than a 22LR. A person is able to shoot it without ear protection but it is right at the threshold of being comfortable/uncomfortable; I still use ear plugs. Consider though that a 10-inch barreled 223 is pretty loud, the suppressor does a great job. One thing I would recommend though, is to get a QD type can. Mine is threaded on and is now dedicated for the 10-inch upper. The QD can just pops on and off when you want. Best regards, J
Link Posted: 10/12/2003 12:30:37 AM EDT
From what I have read, I am told the suppressed sound level is much lower when the longer barrels are suppressed. All mine are 11.5" barrels cause I don't like the can sticking waaay out there, so I cannot compare, but it's supposed to be a lot more quiet on a 16" or 20".
Link Posted: 10/12/2003 2:09:08 AM EDT
YellowLab, My AAC Ranger sounds about like a .22 pistol firing CCI stingers. I have actually had people at the range ask me what kind of .22 conversion kit I am using. Where you shoot has a lot to do with percieved sound. On of the ranges where I shoot has covered shooting benches, and my can sounds a lot louder there as a result. However, another place where I shoot (an open lake bottom) the sound is substantially quieter. On interesting side effect is that, you rifle will be much more controllable. The weight of the can will take away most of the recoil and muzzle rise. Good luck on your search, Scott
Link Posted: 10/12/2003 4:10:46 AM EDT
[b]Quote: from jtr8541:[/b] One thing I would recommend though, is to get a QD type can. Mine is threaded on and is now dedicated for the 10-inch upper. The QD can just pops on and off when you want. ________________________________________________ What is a QD? Is that a quick disconect? If so how does it connect to the barrel? I have only seen screw on ones.
Link Posted: 10/12/2003 6:30:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/12/2003 6:31:20 AM EDT by mach6]
Do some more home work on QD's before you plunk down your hard-earned $$$. The new Smith Vortex G6A1 was designed specifically to be a QD interface unit, in addition to being arguably the world's best flash suppressor.
Link Posted: 10/12/2003 12:39:27 PM EDT
I appreciate the info guys. This is a work in progress....I plan on buying the pre-ban AR in the next couple of months, and then getting the paperwork started for the supressor. I will probably be asking alot of questions ofer the next few months....bear with me.....completely new to supressors.
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 1:45:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2003 1:46:03 AM EDT by JTR8541]
I love my little Gemtech M4-96C so I was figuring on getting the D model as a QD suppressor. [img]http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/gem_m496d.jpg[/img] Gemtech M4-96D Now I’m thinking I’d like to have the Knight or see about getting the suppressor designed for the Smith Enterprise flash hider. It’ll be awhile so we’ll see. Best regards, J
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 1:49:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mach6: Do some more home work on QD's before you plunk down your hard-earned $$$. The new Smith Vortex G6A1 was designed specifically to be a QD interface unit, in addition to being arguably the world's best flash suppressor.
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I echo that statement. Two things immediately come to my own mind - while the M4-96D is a nice QD mount, it is very prone to dismounting difficulty due to fouling - bad after only 200 rounds or less. Other QD systems may be more desireable (Smith Vortex, Knight QD, AAC, etc...) however the QD will be determined mostly by which can you are going to be able to lay your hands on. I like Vortex, but I won't be getting the can that fits that for the foreseable future.
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 8:16:54 AM EDT
What can fits on the Votex?
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 4:29:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 5:44:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/13/2003 5:55:54 PM EDT by mach6]
The new Smith Enterprise, Inc Vortex Model G6A1 flash eliminator is designed to work with the extremely small Arms Tech LTD Model QD-223. Very new product developed in 2003. Currently the suppressor is only available for USG and FMS, due to production priorities, but it is reasonable to assume they could be available on the CL III market in 2004. BTW, the G6A1 is now available through Brownell's or you can get it directly from the manufacturer. Make sure you ask for the G6A1 if you eventually intend to use it with a suppressor. I've got a very clean pic of the a weapon fitted with the Vortex and the QD-223 that was demo'd for a military unit a few weeks ago. If you want to post it contact me.
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 1:25:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mach6: The new Smith Enterprise, Inc Vortex Model G6A1 flash eliminator is designed to work with the extremely small Arms Tech LTD Model QD-223. Very new product developed in 2003. Currently the suppressor is only available for USG and FMS, due to production priorities, but it is reasonable to assume they could be available on the CL III market in 2004. BTW, the G6A1 is now available through Brownell's or you can get it directly from the manufacturer. Make sure you ask for the G6A1 if you eventually intend to use it with a suppressor. I've got a very clean pic of the a weapon fitted with the Vortex and the QD-223 that was demo'd for a military unit a few weeks ago. If you want to post it contact me.
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Mach6 beat me too it. It's unavailability for civilian cretins like me keeps it out of my hands. To be able to use a nice modern suppressor, and when you not to have a vortex underneath - ZOWIE! I love it. I WANT it. My next Vortex will be the G6A1 cause it's a Vortex, after all, and by some miracle I may actually get to lay hands on the QD-223 but that's a distant dream for me at this point. I'll be ready nonetheless.
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 4:09:47 AM EDT
I heard one fired at the range a few months back. Altough we didn't here the crack of the rifle the sonic crack from the bullet was very loud. Fact is the comment was maid "dam that didn't quiet that down very much".
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 4:23:37 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 11:28:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2003 11:32:03 AM EDT by mach6]
Just go ahead and get the Smith Vortex G6A1 FH. BTW, just found out today from Ron Smith that DOE has just adopted this unit, with more on order. Many units making their way over to Iraq on IMPAC cards, as well. Seems the boys aren't exactly happy with the OEM birdcage. As for the associated suppressor, the QD-223's will be available for the CL III market in 2004.
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 12:59:50 PM EDT
Can anyone provide a link or any info on the QD-223? Decbels of reduction, size, weight etc?
Link Posted: 10/14/2003 11:16:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2003 11:17:18 PM EDT by JTR8541]
A friend sent these to me, thought you’d like to see. Best regards, J [img]http://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/ripper11/810b5c43.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.photobucket.com/albums/1003/ripper11/88bc492f.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 10/15/2003 2:36:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/15/2003 2:38:55 PM EDT by DevL]
I wish they sold to civilians.... Oh well looks like I will just have to invest in a Gemtech can instead. Anyone know why this product is not available right now and why there is no info available on it online? I mean I know there are military concerns but would it not have to be adopted adn requested by someone first? I dont know of anyone using this suppressor so why not sell them to civilians in the meantime?
Link Posted: 10/15/2003 3:33:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/15/2003 3:42:12 PM EDT by mach6]
Originally Posted By DevL: I wish they sold to civilians.... Oh well looks like I will just have to invest in a Gemtech can instead. Anyone know why this product is not available right now and why there is no info available on it online? I mean I know there are military concerns but would it not have to be adopted adn requested by someone first? I dont know of anyone using this suppressor so why not sell them to civilians in the meantime?
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----------- The website with the information you desire will be up shortly. As to the availability issue, pending and confirmed military (to include FMS) orders come first. More and more conventional AC and RC units outside of SOF are using their discretionary fund sites, Group IMPAC card purchases, P2 fund lines and Lord knows what else to acquire what they need (to include suppressors), because the "system" is either too slow or intersevice/intraservice politics preclude timely procurement actions. I know much of this is going over the top, so to speak, if you're not involved with major acquisition programs, but that is the reality of the current situation. The problem is endemic and this is how unit commanders who display great initiative adapt and overcome.
Link Posted: 10/15/2003 3:51:21 PM EDT
what's the expected 'life' of a suppressor?
Link Posted: 10/15/2003 4:14:19 PM EDT
aren't silencers and suppressors Class 3??
Link Posted: 10/15/2003 4:31:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/15/2003 11:45:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2003 8:16:42 PM EDT by AK_Mike]
Originally Posted By -Absolut-: what's the expected 'life' of a suppressor?
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Well, if you don't start dumping back to back C-Mags and melt the thing off, quite a long time I would like to think. Gemtech says they have 9mm submachinegun cans that have gone over 100,000 of F/A fire, though 9mm is a far cry from .223. The problem with the .223 is that it eats away at the blast baffle (rearmost). In the Gemtech M4-96D they use Iconel just for the blast plate. Others have gone to almost entire construction of Iconel. My MP5SD 9mm factory can only has a life of 10,000 rnds I am told, but that's because the baffles as well as the tube are aluminum I am told (most all aluminum cans use steel or better in baffle construction). I solved my fears by getting a replacement steel can from KAC, which I can even use water in. HA! If you are not going to be going F/A with the can, I would like to think it will last a long time. Drop Gemtech a line and ask. Somehow I don't trust to many others to give you an honest answer as they are usually biased a lot more. Doc. Dater of Gemtech would give you the straight truth, but he is out of town for a while.
Link Posted: 10/15/2003 11:48:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2003 12:04:35 AM EDT by AK_Mike]
Did you all know that even an unlicenced person (as in non-C2 manufacturer of NFA) can make their own suppressor? All you have to do is register it and get BATF approval on the right form before construction. I hope I remembered that all correctly, check first before doing it, I could be WRONG! (but I think I am right) HOWEVER, while it's not hard to make a pistol suppressor, I would NOT fool around with trying to make a centerfire rifle suppressor unless you really know what you are doing, and have the materials and machining to make a can strong enough to take that kind of pressure!
Link Posted: 10/16/2003 1:09:58 AM EDT
[b]AK_Mike[/b] is right, you can submit a Form 1 for a suppressor the same way you would for an SBS, SBR, AOW, DD etc. Just like he said though I wouldn’t do it for a centerfire rifle; leave that to the professionals. As for life of the suppressor, my little Gemtech M4-96C probably has about 1000 rounds through it, most in semi auto but a few 30 round mag dumps. It’s holding up just fine and works great. And do call Dr. Dater, he’s a great guy to talk with and will give it to you straight. Best regards, J
Link Posted: 10/16/2003 7:22:59 AM EDT
Gem-Tech ads in SAR state they have over 125,000 rounds thorugh their Raptor...
Link Posted: 10/16/2003 7:39:42 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AK_Mike: Did you all know that even an unlicenced person (as in non-C2 manufacturer of NFA) can make their own suppressor? All you have to do is register it and get BATF approval on the right form before construction. I hope I remembered that all correctly, check first before doing it, I could be WRONG! (but I think I am right) HOWEVER, while it's not hard to make a pistol suppressor, I would NOT fool around with trying to make a centerfire rifle suppressor unless you really know what you are doing, and have the materials and machining to make a can strong enough to take that kind of pressure!
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You're all good on the above advice. I DO know what I'm doing, and I wouldn't fuck around with a rifle can unless I had access to the lathes/CNC mill/welding supplies and stuff that a major manufacturer like Gemtech would have...and I'm sure I couldn't build anything that would work as well as my TPR-S. .22 cans are one thing..but a homemade centerfire rifle can is a good way to be picking bits of metal out of your forehead.
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