Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 10/8/2003 4:15:32 PM EDT
Who makes a laser sight for the AR? Was looking through a gun mag last night and thought it said Crimson Trace was now making one. Went to their website and found nothing. Any info on manufacturers????
Link Posted: 10/8/2003 4:51:01 PM EDT
Greenbeam. It ain't cheap but it is the best. I've owned two of them. (Now two of my brothers own them !!)
Link Posted: 10/8/2003 5:48:41 PM EDT
Visable lasers are pretty much useless on ARs. THat said the best commercially available is the OTAL from Laser Products. The Crimson Trace does not yet exist to my knoledge.
Link Posted: 10/8/2003 6:29:35 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DevL: Visable lasers are pretty much useless on ARs. THat said the best commercially available is the OTAL from Laser Products.
View Quote
Let's see now.......what are the specs on the OTAL from Laser products ????????? I know nothing about the OTAL but I would venture to guess it is in the 632-650nm range ?? The Greenbeam is down in the in 435nm range and the visible beam is, therefore, shifted down into the green spectrum. Much brighter means much greater distance. Most all of these lasers produce about the same amount of power so the primary differentiation is the wavelength at which the laser transmits. (This is a case where the lower (nm) number is better. The wave is longer and will carry a greater distance.) I would be most interested in how you come to the conclusion that visible lasers are "pretty much useless on ARs".
Link Posted: 10/8/2003 6:44:00 PM EDT
Just my nickel (inflation and all, two-cents doesn't go far anymore). I have had, and have used an ALS (applied laser Systems) laser on my AR. I bought it a few days after I bought the rifle. I do not really use it anymore since I bought an acog and flat top. But, when I was using it I thought it was really great. It mounted directly to the front site post. was not in the way at all, and came with a remote pressure switch. I really liked it. Anyway, just thought I would mention that one. It has been a few years since I purchased it. But, I am pretty sure they still make it. It is pictured on this page: http://www.gunaccessories.com/AppliedLaser/index.asp I have not ordered from these people. I just linked it for the picture, so I do not know how they are as a company.
Link Posted: 10/8/2003 6:47:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Wulfgott: Just my nickel (inflation and all, two-cents doesn't go far anymore). I have had, and have used an ALS (applied laser Systems) laser on my AR. I bought it a few days after I bought the rifle. I do not really use it anymore since I bought an acog and flat top. But, when I was using it I thought it was really great. It mounted directly to the front site post. was not in the way at all, and came with a remote pressure switch. I really liked it. Anyway, just thought I would mention that one. It has been a few years since I purchased it. But, I am pretty sure they still make it. It is pictured on this page: [url]http://www.gunaccessories.com/AppliedLaser/index.asp[/url] I have not ordered from these people. I just linked it for the picture, so I do not know how they are as a company.
View Quote
Edited to warmp up link.
Link Posted: 10/8/2003 9:19:55 PM EDT
A laser does what a red dot does only gives your position away. None of your special forces guys use them. They are gadgety and unnecessary on a rifle. They dont work on moving targets in the open. They are really only usefull indoors and when you cant see your sights like when wearing a gas mask and even then you can usually do better using your optics instead. Please show me a unit here in the US that uses lasers on their rifles becasue I dont know of any. Please show me a link to a green laser that is waterproofed and made for weapon mounting because I dont know of any. If you can do those two things for me I will have learned yet another thing today. [:)]
Link Posted: 10/8/2003 11:51:47 PM EDT
Well, with that said, I have a vis laser (red) on one of my uppers. It's fun to be able to point shoot without looking through an optic. But it's only for fun. A serious operator would be looking through an optic/iron sights, and it gives away your position. They can also be usefull for an 'intimidation' factor. However, the IR laser and NV gear rule! In widespread use (by military) and usefull. BTW, just cause the wavelength is shorter, doesn't mean it carries the beam out farther. It just looks like it because the shorter wavelength is perceived to be brighter to the eye. All civilian vis lasers are limited to 5mw which limits range (as well as beam spreading). Vis lasers go out far enough already - when you project really far away, your round is not going to hit the dot because ballistics won't converge - it could only do that exactly at two points like your iron sights when set to a battle zero.
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 6:51:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DevL: A laser does what a red dot does only gives your position away. None of your special forces guys use them. They are gadgety and unnecessary on a rifle. They dont work on moving targets in the open. They are really only usefull indoors and when you cant see your sights like when wearing a gas mask and even then you can usually do better using your optics instead. Please show me a unit here in the US that uses lasers on their rifles becasue I dont know of any. Please show me a link to a green laser that is waterproofed and made for weapon mounting because I dont know of any. If you can do those two things for me I will have learned yet another thing today. [:)]
View Quote
The military does have and use a day visible laser. Terrible specs - I believe it transmits at 650nm. I'll have to look around and find the military designation as I just can't recall what it is. (However, the military may have juiced the power up from the roughly 5mw available to civilians.) As for a waterproof green laser I know of none. However, I don't swim in the ocean, jump out of airplanes nor fall down mountain sides while using green lasers. As a civilian with civilian needs the Greenbean is perfectly adequate for my needs. This deal ain't rocket science. There's a time and place for day visible lasers and a time and place for infrared lasers such as the PAQ-4C and the PEQ-2. Lasers are just another tool in our arsenal.
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 7:08:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DevL: A laser does what a red dot does only gives your position away.
View Quote
If your enemy has any sophistication, an IR laser also gives away your position. Anything that transmits may give your position away. When using any targeting device that transmits, shooting quickly (and first) is a damn fine idea. Then turn-off the transmitter. With that said, IR lasers are another extremely useful tool in our arsenal.
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 8:01:31 AM EDT
The military designation for their day visible laser is the PEQ-5. (Alright, alright I'll admit I couldn't remember and had to go to Wes Grant for the answer !!)
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 8:19:17 AM EDT
Green beam... Go to www.appliedlaser.com They have it in there
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 8:48:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2003 8:51:42 AM EDT by DevL]
Strong Men Armed The Marine Corps 1st Force Reconnaissance Company Article by: Patrick A. Rogers "...The AN/PEQ-5 is a visible laser. It is difficult to imagine what this particular item is actually for (I am unconvinced of the tactical viability of a visible laser) and consequently is never used...." I still have not seen a unit use these things... Also I never said an IR laser was not usefull and that is becasue you need some peripheral vision ability from the head mounted NV unit. When you are in static position a dedicated NV optic is a better choice. If your laser wont work if you slip and bust your ass and drop it in a puddle outside its not of much use to me. The OTAL is waterproof to 66 feet by the way. Green lasers also will light up an entire room they are so bright to the naked eye. This could give away your position. In the future I may see a use for a green laser but its not matured enough to be deployable yet. If you could see where your aiming in an open field I could see some use for a laser but right now you would see nothing unless the laser hits something to give you reference like a close wall or rock or tree and thats not always what is near you.
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 9:01:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Marksman14: Green beam... Go to [url]www.appliedlaser.com[/url] They have it in there
View Quote
Edited to warm up link.
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 9:09:32 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DevL: Strong Men Armed The Marine Corps 1st Force Reconnaissance Company Article by: Patrick A. Rogers "...The AN/PEQ-5 is a visible laser. It is difficult to imagine what this particular item is actually for (I am unconvinced of the tactical viability of a visible laser) and consequently is never used...." I still have not seen a unit use these things... Also I never said an IR laser was not usefull and that is becasue you need some peripheral vision ability from the head mounted NV unit. When you are in static position a dedicated NV optic is a better choice. If your laser wont work if you slip and bust your ass and drop it in a puddle outside its not of much use to me. The OTAL is waterproof to 66 feet by the way. Green lasers also will light up an entire room they are so bright to the naked eye. This could give away your position. In the future I may see a use for a green laser but its not matured enough to be deployable yet. If you could see where your aiming in an open field I could see some use for a laser but right now you would see nothing unless the laser hits something to give you reference like a close wall or rock or tree and thats not always what is near you.
View Quote
I went back and took a look at the topic title and found it to be: "Laser sights for AR-15". Your answers are for the military and the M16 as I don't believe the military has used a 5.56mm rifle designated AR-15 since about 1961 or 1962. One more time, the best laser for AR-15 users is the GreenBeam. It does NOT light up an entire room. In fact, the beam is more concentrated and the effective range longer due to the 435nm wavelength. I've owned and used two GreenBeam lasers. How many have you personally owned and used ?? Do you understand that IR lasers may also give away your position ?? Do you understand that ANYTHING that transmits may give your position away ?? 5sub
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 11:25:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2003 11:53:37 AM EDT by DevL]
Yes I understand that quite well. What made you thnk otherwise? I also understand I would not say a match barrel is "better" for everyone. I like rugged things. I suggested the highest quality laser that is rugged. If someone wants to use a beamshot laser on their rifle thats their business. I really dont care to argue the point anymore. Lasers are of dubious value on a defensive weapon. If you want the latest gee whiz toy for your gun to have fun with a beamshot is perfectly OK for that. Have fun. Out. Oh edited to add I may be posting a pic of a green laser lighting up a room if I can find it again... dont know who the manufacture was of the laser. My bad it was an over 5mw green laser whos reflected light it up the room. But a WHOLE LOT of 5mw green lasers can light up a room LOL! [img]http://www.spacecoastelectronics.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/time_laser3.jpg[/img] To be honest when green lasers are developed that are rugged enough I will probably buy one myself. I may even change my mind on their usefullness on a defensive rifle.
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 12:50:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/11/2003 10:14:24 PM EDT by AK_Mike]
Yes, if the enemy has NV gear, they too can see your IR. However, against an unsophisticated/poorly equipped enemy, you don't run so much of a risk. As I see it, the IR and NV combo are simply a better alternative to using tracers at night. The enemy will in most cases see the flashes from the weapons firing anyways. Ballistic will cause the rounds to only hit near the laser dot so you are really only using it for general aiming and ranging. P.S. I wanna green laser too, but one that is weapons grade. A pen laser is not going to cut it for me, I want one with a proper mount and built to take centerfire recoil. This means the SF L80 or a green OTAL if those guys get off their duff and make one. Either way it will be more expensive, but worth it to me (for the fun factor, I don't use them for business) Edited to add, hey, I would like a cheap green laser so when I sit in the audience and laze the wrestler in the ring, I will know it's MY laser [}:D]
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 1:47:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AK_Mike: Yes, if the enemy has NV gear, they too can see your IR. However, against an unsophisticated/poorly equipped enemy, you don't run so much of a risk. As I see it, the IR and NV combo are simply a better alternative to using tracers at night. The enemy will in most cases see the flashes from the weapons firing anyways. Ballistic will cause the rounds to only hit near the laser dot so you are really only using it for general aiming and ranging. P.S. I wanna green laser too, but one that is weapons grade. A pen laser is not going to cut it for me, I want one with a proper mount and built to take centerfire recoil. This means the SF L80 or a green OTAL if those guys get off their duff and make one. Either way it will be more expensive, but worth it to me (for the fun factor, I don't use them for business)
View Quote
Yep, I too would like a more robust green laser. I took a quick look at the OTAL and from what I saw it's $400 plus dollars with pedestrian specs. I paid $440 including mount for my first Greenbeam and $400 including mount for the second. I've got to say that neither had any problems but my use was something considerably short of hard. (The first I barrel mounted on an ArmaLite M15A4 carbine and the second on the rail of an SR-15 M4.) I believe most laser manufacturers depend on the ignorance of the market as they continue to offer mostly 630-650nm lasers and that offends me. Yes, I would also prefer to use an IR laser with NV as opposed to tracers. Even if the target was sophisticated.
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 4:27:55 PM EDT
Isn't the OTAL manufactured by Laser Devices Inc.?
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 8:14:49 PM EDT
Yeah my bad. I was talking out my ass. Laser Devices.
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 8:26:53 PM EDT
I have had, and have used an ALS (applied laser Systems) laser on my AR. I bought it a few days after I bought the rifle. I do not really use it anymore since I bought an acog and flat top. But, when I was using it I thought it was really great. It mounted directly to the front site post. was not in the way at all, and came with a remote pressure switch. I really liked it. Anyway, just thought I would mention that one. It has been a few years since I purchased it. But, I am pretty sure they still make it.
View Quote
I've got an ALS pulsebeam (HK branded) laser on my Benelli M3s90. It's a rugged little SOB-I just wish the MN175 battery was a little easier to find.
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 11:21:01 PM EDT
[url]http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:NhwKxRbabQUJ:www.fbodaily.com/cbd/archive/2000/02(February)/07-Feb-2000/58sol005.htm+U.S.+Naval+Surface+Warfare+Center+visible+laser&hl=en&ie=UTF-8[/url]
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 11:28:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By fistpoint: [url]http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:NhwKxRbabQUJ:www.fbodaily.com/cbd/archive/2000/02(February)/07-Feb-2000/58sol005.htm+U.S.+Naval+Surface+Warfare+Center+visible+laser&hl=en&ie=UTF-8[/url]
View Quote
Why did you post this? Am I missing something?
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 11:51:46 PM EDT
Did you read it? It is just a memo asking for research into the use of visible lasers.
Top Top