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Posted: 10/5/2003 4:59:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2003 5:06:17 PM EDT by Womb-Raider]
I read a post earlier where a person described how he used an m16 carrier in his AR and how it was perfectly legal because his gun was not full auto. I wondered what the advantage was. Also, I know that removing the disconnector will it make your AR fire full auto, but what is the difference in this mode of full auto and the full auto that M16's use? Does the bolt not lock onto the barrel? Are there any unsafe differences? This post is for general info only? thanx in advance...
Link Posted: 10/5/2003 5:24:01 PM EDT
No difference in having M16 parts in it, as it will still fire semi. Removing the disconnector to make it FA, will fire FA by slamfire. Its not safe and will either hurt your gun or the shooter if the timing is off.
Link Posted: 10/5/2003 5:25:05 PM EDT
Using an unmodified M16 carrier in an unregistered rifle is a good way to end up in Federal pound-me-in-the-ass prison. In fact, simply possessing it is enough even if it isn't installed. Removing the disconnector might make an AR15 go full auto, but it is more likely to simply allow the rifle to go into battery without the hammer being cocked back which makes your rifle bolt action since you'll have to manually cycle the action after each shot, ejecting an otherwise good round into the sand. It can also allow the weapon to fire out of battery which can do nasty things to your complexion.
Link Posted: 10/5/2003 6:15:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DOA: No difference in having M16 parts in it, as it will still fire semi. Removing the disconnector to make it FA, will fire FA by slamfire. Its not safe and will either hurt your gun or the shooter if the timing is off.
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What's the difference between this and Bump-Firing a semi-auto AR ?
Link Posted: 10/5/2003 7:21:45 PM EDT
About 15 - 20 years. Bump firing still only fires one shot per trigger pull, it's just a way of easily pulling the trigger really fast. If you change the internals so that the weapon fires more than one shot per trigger pull then you've illegally manufactured a machine gun.
Link Posted: 10/5/2003 7:43:11 PM EDT
I am the guy who runs an M16 carrier in his AR and wrote the letter to the technical branch of the ATF telling them what I did. The reason I did it was 2 fold. First the ramp is cut away on AR15 carriers that covers the firing pin. This is done so that the gun will jam up if you have an extractor problem. I wanted the ramp left in place for reliability purposes. Second is the shelf that is milled back on the underside of the carrier. This prevents and auto sear from being tripped by the carrier. I wanted the extra weight on my carrier to aid in reliability. I dont have any other auto parts nor do I plan to aquire any so it has no effect on anything else. Its kind of like using the H buffer in the carbine instead of the light weight one. If you remove the disconnector from a semi auto it will usually just let the hammer follow the carrier down and you will end up with a single shot rifle. On occasion it will double. This is a broken rifle, or a malfunctioning rifle and not a full auto. I am perfectly willing to go to jail to prove that point if need be. I have no intention of breaking any laws and have not broken any. You can remove the disconnecoter from an AR15 made by RRA and it will behave in exactly the same way when the disconnector is removed as my full auto carrier because it has the ramp over the firing pin. Next is the issue of bump firing. This is the process of pulling the trigger really fast. You use the recoil of the rifle to help you fire more quickly. Its kind of a learned art/skill and its not really usefull for anything but having fun. There is nothing against the law with pulling the trigger really fast just yet. It is still legal for the moment. Some people might warn you to not simulate full auto fire as there might be a law against it in the future or you might end up in jail because some ignorant officer does not understand what bump firing is. If your that concerned with litigation I suggest selling all your firearms becasue there is a lot of potential litigation out there for the firearms owner. Asses how much risk is OK for you and act accordingly. Your semi auto carrier is 99.9% as reliable as my full auto carrier. I choose to use an M16 carrier becasue I can. Perhaps you wont choose to do so.
Link Posted: 10/5/2003 9:44:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/6/2003 8:27:23 AM EDT
OK this may sound like a 'newbie' question. I have a few ARs and I have had experience with the M16 back in the day~ how much reliability improvement do you see? Would the improvement show only in a full-auto or bump fired AR? I never had a issue with semi ARs.
Link Posted: 10/6/2003 10:28:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/6/2003 10:38:02 AM EDT
THANK GOD somebody with some freaking brains.. I to am willing to got to pound me in the ass fed pin for have an M16 carrier...... Those idiots who think an Opinion or recommendation is the law needs to have the head examined or need to be part of the paranoid ATF poster child collection... NOTHING WRONG WITH M16 Bolt in an AR.
Link Posted: 10/6/2003 11:39:33 AM EDT
Troy, good answer... you know, just so many different senerios... makes your head spin.
Link Posted: 10/6/2003 4:03:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 1ar4me: NOTHING WRONG WITH M16 Bolt in an AR.
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Nothing wrong with an *Complete M16 Upper* on a semi-auto lower. Just about every manufacturer ships this way anyway. Take a look at any recent AR, say a Bushmaster. They are all sear cut, and small pivot pins, features designed exclusively for M16s.
Link Posted: 10/6/2003 5:24:07 PM EDT
I think the bennefits are negligible.I dont see how much weight is removed by machining the ramp out under the firing pin and the bottom of the carrier back,whats it maybe 2 or 3 ounces,I have a heavy buffer for my carbine and in a fullsize rifle I personaly dont think it matters.The ramp machined out under the firing pin coincides with the notch cut out in the top of the hammer so if your disconector breaks or is removed the carrier hangs up on the hammer.I have had my preban carbine"bushmaster"11 years and never had any type of problem before I changed to a H buffer and heavier extractor spring and those add ons were done 2 years ago.So 9 years no problems due to a 3 ounce lighter carrier,But I will admit the closed carrier does look better.
Link Posted: 10/6/2003 5:46:16 PM EDT
On short barrels - depending on gasport size - bullet weight and powder combo the carrier weight can become a major reliability factor. YMMV (greatly)
Link Posted: 10/7/2003 8:45:46 AM EDT
Hello, My SP-1 came with an M-16 bolt carrier from Colt. Should I turn myself in at the nearest ATF branch office? Thanks, Jason [wave]
Link Posted: 10/7/2003 11:37:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jasondcrum: Hello, My SP-1 came with an M-16 bolt carrier from Colt. Should I turn myself in at the nearest ATF branch office? Thanks, Jason [wave]
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Send it to me , and I will be more then happy to turn it in. [;)]
Link Posted: 10/8/2003 1:22:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/8/2003 1:42:13 AM EDT by AK_Mike]
At last. More people aware of the law posting such correctly rather than those posting myths and misconceptions (it's legal to use the M16 carrier in an AR-15) At any rate, here's the cool thing. Yes, some people use the M16 carrier for the extra weight and for the extended ramp as DevL said. Some of the more paranoid but still wanting have modified M16 carriers to CYA. But now the manufacturers have wised up and the latest carriers are available with more weight and extended ramps. The extended ramp is readibly available and if you want more weight as well, the KAC SR-15 Match carrier fits the bill - it's what came with my MSTN provided SPR. Just in case I had a brain fart, it may be the Les Baer carrier that was the heaviest - Wes at MSTN knows for sure. So if you are paranoid about the M16 part deal, just get one of the modernized carriers availble out there. Edit: Okay, now I'm pretty sure the heavy carrier was the Les Baer.
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