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Posted: 10/3/2003 11:32:45 AM EDT
Newbie over here..

Went to my local range today to test my newly acquired Mossberg 590A1. Once I ran out of shells, I got to taking with some of the folks shooting next to me. They subject of home defense came up. Folks were talking about the best weapon to use in such a situation. Even though I was gripping my shiny new 590, I said I would go for a 16” AR15 loaded with a 40grain type of round (“to cover the over penetration issue” I said). Most of the folks there were local LE and were pretty impressed with the logic behind my choice. Once I began telling them about my new project, it was apparent that they were blown away with my knowledge about the weapon.
I have to give credit where credit is due. The folks @ ar15.com!!!. Without this site I would never be able to talk to folks about the weapon with the confidence I exude. This site has everything one needs to indulge in the AR 15 world. Thanks again.

After 4 month of research I’m doing it. I’ve decided to put together my very first AR15. Here is the lay out:
-Custom 16’’ Chrome lined Douglas Barrel –1/9 twist + bolt and carrier- complete A3 Flat Top Upper Receiver.
-DPMS lower + internals and ACE full length stock.
-B.M.A.S Free float 4 side rail system
-B.M.A.S detachable front flip up sight.
-A.R.M.S #40 flip up rear sight.
-B.M.A.S Rail Sling mount.
-Aimpoint model CompML2-ARMS #22M68 + ARMS Extended Cantilever Spacer.
-Streamlight M3X + adapter.
-Fobus G27 grip.
-Tango Down forward front grip.
-CQB Solution single point tactical sling.
-10 rd Bushmaster Teflon coated Mags.

Will post pictures soon!
Link Posted: 10/3/2003 12:16:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2003 12:17:38 PM EDT by Snark1]
A 40 grain loading in 223 is totally inadequate for in home defense.....just ask Forest. He'll whiz kid you to death about the details just like McNamara did to Johnson while avoiding any discussion not germaine to HIS point. Thank god we won in Viet Nam thereby vindicating Forest.... er,,, I mean McNamara. Really.....a 40 grain doesn't do somethingorother in gelatin so it won't kill people. Ok Ok....seriously.....a 55 grain shouldn't over-penetrate in a home situation(ammo faq!!!!!!!!!!). Sounds like a nifty rifle you have in the works. Just remember.....you're gonna need several more, so budget accordingly!!!!
Link Posted: 10/3/2003 3:03:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/3/2003 4:03:10 PM EDT
Never heard of a chrome lined Douglas barrel can I get a link to a source? I have only heard of stainless. Why are you getting that crappy Bushmaster front sight? What is your reasoning for a folding front sight on this rifle? What made you choose the Bushmaster rail system over a Knights FF RAS? Price? If it was price why did you choose it over the FIRSH? If your getting a single point sling why are you getting a side sling adaptor that you wont use with a single point sling since from your parts selection it seems like price is an issue? If price is an issue why are you getting a custom barrel on a 200m gun? Why are you not getting 20 or 30 round magazines? My Bushmaster 10 rounder is the least reliable magazine I have ever used jamming at least 3 times per 10 rounds. Why are you using 40 grain varmint load instead of a heavier 55 or 60 grain ballistic tip so you can at least get CLOSE to adequate penetration and still have less overpenetration risk than 12ga or 9mm? Who is making the upper and bolt/carrier? If this is a home defense weapon why are you not getting some kind of new latch for the charging handle so you can get it into action faster and clear malfunctions faster? Who is going to build this rifle for you? If this is a CQB rifle why are you getting such a long stock? I am not dogging you, these are legit questions. I bought and sold parts several times before I came up with my current configuration and it took 4 years to get to where mine is at. I have gotten and sold off more useless crap than you can shake a stick at. Almost sounds like your going for a Bushmaster factory rifle with their crap on it but then there is a custom barrel on it. Just wondering where you are going with this project.
Link Posted: 10/3/2003 6:05:36 PM EDT
Hey Drako, Welcome to your first post! Make your way over to the Hometown section and check out the NY/NJ forum. We have a shoot here in NJ about every two months and its a great bunch of guys! You can also have the chance at firing at least 15 different configurations of ARs at these things, which could be very helpful in pursuit of your first rifle...
Link Posted: 10/3/2003 6:45:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DevL: Why are you not getting 20 or 30 round magazines? My Bushmaster 10 rounder is the least reliable magazine I have ever used jamming at least 3 times per 10 rounds.
View Quote
Cuz NJ is limited to 15 rounds and he probably doesn't realize that you can block a 20-30 round magazine to 15 and it's both legal, and if the SHTF, you can always resotore the full capacity.
Link Posted: 10/3/2003 8:21:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/3/2003 8:22:20 PM EDT by _DR]
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Link Posted: 10/6/2003 5:48:16 AM EDT
Ok… Easy guys. Remember “Newbie” I want to thank you for the interest on my very first post, but I think I really needed a hug or something after reading some of your comments. Point well taken thought. First, thanks for you input on my choice of bullet grain. I’ve done some more reading on the subject and decided that a 55 grain bullet will do the job. Now.. which brand do you recommend? I heard CorBon makes a nice round. What do you think? DVEL - About my choice of components for my AR, I can tell you that this is a true work in progress. The only components I have on the workbench are the barrel /upper and the DPMS lower. I’m still deciding on the choice of optics, stock etc. -You are correct on the barrel - This is not a chromed lined barrel, but a Chrome Moly barrel. -The complete barrel/upper and bolt carrier were built and assembled by my neighbor’s friend. He is a former gunsmith for the USMC riffle team. I spoke to him last night and he does not want me to put his name or his services out in the open. If you are interested in what he does, I can put you in touch with him directly. Just shoot me a quick email and I can make it happen. -Why the total dislike for the BMAS accessories? -Why a front flip up sight? Well in your opinion why not? -To Stryfe’s point, NJ law was the only reasoning behind the 10rd mag. I did not know you can restrict 20-30rd mags. If this is truly legal in NJ, how do I do this??
Link Posted: 10/6/2003 9:01:25 AM EDT
Folding sights: A: Cost money B: Are weaker and more prone to breakage So to me I would have to have a good reason to go with one. The Bushmaster products are essentially imitations of other higher quality components. My rifle is a preban Bushasmter. I love Bushasmter rifle parts. I am not crazy about their other accesories (mostly Yankee Hill stuff) Had a friend with untold problems with a trigger from Bushmaster. Welcome to the board though. Sorry if I came across a bit harsh. Would you like a hug too? LOL Is this going to be used for 3 gun stuff or was it just for fun? Kid of seems like a 3 gun set up the more I look at it.
Link Posted: 10/6/2003 11:12:49 AM EDT
No more hugs needed... Im good now. Trying to build a good all arround set up. May end up as 3 gun rig. We'll se in about 3 more weeks. Will post pics soon.
Link Posted: 10/6/2003 11:48:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/6/2003 11:49:07 AM EDT by Ridge]
Honest question here. I've heard quite a bit that the KAC FFRAS is so much better than the BMAS. But what specifically makes the KAC better? (I would naturally assume the KAC would be better because it is made for the military). Is it lighter? More rigid? Better cooling? Stronger? Better looking? Sources? Thanks.
Link Posted: 10/6/2003 1:17:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/6/2003 1:18:34 PM EDT by DevL]
Is it lighter? The forearm section is lighter for sure. I didnt have a scale to compare the entier assemblies. More rigid? I could not tell from my limited handling of a BMAS forearm. Better cooling? Yes. MUCH better? Probably not. Stronger? I believe the way the KAC forearms barrel nut forearm interface is covered is a better design. It is certainly easier to install. Better looking? Well of course [;)] This is from my admittedly short time handling a BMAS forearm. The FF RAS is $100 more and to me it has additional benefits like the rail covers vs the ergo covers (stronger, more solid, feels better etc) you dont have to pay extra for the rail covers and the fact you can put the low profile KAC rail sling mounts in the holes up front etc. There are a lot of little things I think make the KAC unit a better unit. I admit I dont like how heavy the steel barrel nut is. I do like how the KAC rails are scalloped between the recoil lugs for dirt to not get in the way of attaching things in field conditions. There is just a lot of little things I like better. The other rail system I am taking a hard look at is the Daniel Defense forearm. It is very similar to the KAC unit but has an aluminum barrel nut (lighter but not as strong) and lacks the scalloped sections on the edges between the rail lugs. It also has a slightly different profile with the lower section lower than the sides are narrow.
Link Posted: 10/6/2003 2:32:15 PM EDT
That all sounds very impressive but a 16 inch bushy flat top with an eotech 551 and arms#40 with 20 round GI mag that is blocked loaded with fed XM193 will get the job done as well as anything and better than most .and for a whole lot less with a warentee.Not as sexy but dead reliable and the eotech is the fastest for close combat .As far as NJ gun laws i lived in NJ UNTILL 1987 AND THEY WERE A pain in the ASS.GOOD LUCK
Link Posted: 10/6/2003 2:54:14 PM EDT
I think Buster 51 has it right. I would even hold off on the flip-up rear sight unless you are going to spend a lot of time jumping out of airplanes or falling off of things. For heaven's sake, buy a good rifle and spend your money on ammo to learn to shoot it instead of hanging all that shit on it just because it looks cool. You could even afford some training with the money you will save. Whatever you do enjoy, but learn what you are about before pissing great sums of money away. Cheers! Him
Link Posted: 10/6/2003 3:05:51 PM EDT
Forgive my puritanical philosophy, but have you considered a more basic approach? As a 1st timer for ARs it might be best to go stock with the best 16" rifle out there (I highly support your A3 decision though). That enables you to put the $$$ where it counts (on the rifle) and get acquainted with the basics first. Then you can add components bit by bit. That lets you buy the best of the best in stages & you can appreciate each new gadget all the more. You will also find that your tastes change and if you buy a wheelbarrow full of gadgets you may find you are dissappointed with 40% of them or so. This is my philosophy; take it or leave it. I certainly don't want to force my way of thinking on you, but you might benefit a bit more from the gradual approach. I definitely second the 55 grain min bullet choice too. Whatever you do good luck & welcome!
Link Posted: 10/6/2003 3:10:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Snark1: A 40 grain loading in 223 is totally inadequate for in home defense.....just ask Forest. He'll whiz kid you to death about the details just like McNamara did to Johnson while avoiding any discussion not germaine to HIS point. Thank god we won in Viet Nam thereby vindicating Forest.... er,,, I mean McNamara. Really.....a 40 grain doesn't do somethingorother in gelatin so it won't kill people. Ok Ok....seriously.....a 55 grain shouldn't over-penetrate in a home situation(ammo faq!!!!!!!!!!). Sounds like a nifty rifle you have in the works. Just remember.....you're gonna need several more, so budget accordingly!!!!
View Quote
What a cheap-assed shot.
Link Posted: 10/6/2003 8:21:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Drako: -To Stryfe’s point, NJ law was the only reasoning behind the 10rd mag. I did not know you can restrict 20-30rd mags. If this is truly legal in NJ, how do I do this??
View Quote
I'm not a jersey boy myself, but as I understand it, any way you block it is fine just so it doesn't hold more than 15 rounds. I've read of dowels, or paint sticks, being placed between the follower and the floorplate. Ask about it in the mag forum, I'm sure you will find a multitude of responses.
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