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Posted: 9/25/2003 8:44:34 AM EDT
Hey Im some what new to the Ar-15 world and I just built my first one about 3 months ago. Its cool I guess but after spending many hours on this site I feel I could have built something far better. Its fun to go plinking and have done that for many years with my father. I have started to grow interest in the workings of the AR and I ask where did all of you gain your knowledge of the gun from? I mean there are so many different way to build one and I feel lost and stupid reading some of the post. If you were going to build a gun that is light weight most accurate and dependable what would it be. I am no marksman but want a gun that is of the highest standards. I have learned so much from this site but feel that if I understood what some of you were saying I could learn more. Thanks in advance!
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 9:02:02 AM EDT
Just spend some time here. Read. Ask questions. There's no stupid question, and we've all been there at some point, so ask away. I've learned more here that I EVER would have otherwise.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 9:23:01 AM EDT
Shooting. Building. Assembly. Disassembly. Striping. Cleaning.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 10:30:51 AM EDT
I comr from a background of bolt guns and sporting shotguns as my father was a hunter and very much the traditional NRA member. I had a base knowledge of firearms when I first started reading here in early '99. About 80% of everything I know about AR15s is from just reading and asking questions. I am still learning things everyday. Like most when I arrived I didnt know anything. I thought: HP or SP ammo must be better right? 1/9 is the best twist casue Bushmaster says so! HBARs are not that heavy and improve accuracy, M4 barrels suck!! (sorry Brouhaha) [;)] TA01NSN is the utimate optic and I bet those iron sights on top work great! I want a laser on my rifle... that would be cool! Foreward grips are stupid looking... I want to free float an M500! I am gonna by pass the AWB and put an unslotted Bilock flash hider on my rifle and put a silencer on! I am gonna bypass the AWB by registering my rilfe as a SBR! The list goes on and on. My advice is just to read everything and ask as many questions as possible and dont be afraid to look like an idiot. Noone thinks anything if you just ask the questions and we are all more than willing to help.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 11:26:11 AM EDT
Thanks for the advice and it seems like everyone was once like me on this board. Question I have is what type barrel is the best for accuracy? Is having the M4 ramps any better than not having them? What is the best configuration for the AR? Is there any ammo that is better than others? There was a post for a improved bolt and carrier, is that worth the money? How do you tell one brand of barrel from the next if you can not find a stamp like colt? The list goes on. I understand most of these questions are all opinion questions but when the majority agrees there must be some truth in it. One last question for now is in Ga. how do you go about finding a tactical gun class? What does that entail and how much does something like that run? As far as my AR its one of the best guns I have ever shot. But that is not saying much. I grew up shooting birds and squirrels not ever thinking I would ever get this deep into it. Or never thought Id own an assault weapon. It is a fever and I got the bug to learn but just want to learn the right way! Once again thanks for the advice and please keep them coming!
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 11:59:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2003 12:05:12 PM EDT by DevL]
Originally Posted By vedubin01: Thanks for the advice and it seems like everyone was once like me on this board. Question I have is what type barrel is the best for accuracy? Is having the M4 ramps any better than not having them? What is the best configuration for the AR? Is there any ammo that is better than others? There was a post for a improved bolt and carrier, is that worth the money? How do you tell one brand of barrel from the next if you can not find a stamp like colt? The list goes on. I understand most of these questions are all opinion questions but when the majority agrees there must be some truth in it. One last question for now is in Ga. how do you go about finding a tactical gun class? What does that entail and how much does something like that run? As far as my AR its one of the best guns I have ever shot. But that is not saying much. I grew up shooting birds and squirrels not ever thinking I would ever get this deep into it. Or never thought Id own an assault weapon. It is a fever and I got the bug to learn but just want to learn the right way! Once again thanks for the advice and please keep them coming!
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The best barrel for accuracy is a Krieger. I dont have one becuase I am more concerned with reliability. Having the M4 ramps is better than not having them. I am having mine cut in next week. The best configuration of AR depends on what requirements you have for it. I think the best all around for CQB to 300m is an M4. For longer ranges I would select a custom built SPR type rifle. (Do a search on "SPR" its an 18" barreled precision rifle used by US Special Forces) The ammo that is better than others would be as follows: M193 for relatively cheap, kind of accurate and good terminal ballistics. Needs a 5.56 chamber. 68-69 grain match rounds. Relatively expensive, accurate and better terminal ballistics. Usually requires a 1/9 twist barrel or higher. 75-77 grain match rounds. Best terminal ballistics. Accurate. Most expensive. Usually requires a 1/7 twist barrel. Needs a 5.56 chamber if you get the NATO pressure loading from Black Hills. 64 grain power point. Soft point with good terminal ballistics. Great hunting round. Drops like a stone at long range. Federal 55 grain Trophy Bonded Bear Claw. OK terminal ballistics. OK hunting round. Best round for punching through intermeditate barreiers and doing damage to whats beyond. The other rounds are not as good at hard barrier penetration but this one does not fragment like the previous rounds. Is the improved bolt and carrier worth the money? I would wait as Knight's will be producing a similar unit and lets see what ends up being the better unit. For right now a milspec carrier and bolt with a Wolff extrator spring will last you thousands of rounds. I would not buy a barrel without a stamp. My suggestion is to buy from a reputable source and stick to known quality brands like Bushmaster, Colt, etc. Personally my criteria for a milspec barrel is 4150 steel, chrome lined barrel and chamber, 1/7 twist. Only Bushmaster, Colt and DPMS have this as options. Also most of these barrels are preban so youd have to have work done to convert them to post ban if you have a post ban rifle. If I wanted a stainless precision barrel I would spare no expense and go Krieger. End of story. You would have a .25 MOA rifle if everything else was up to par.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 12:02:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2003 12:03:18 PM EDT by die-tryin]
how did you learn the in and outs of the M16
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[b][size=6]THE MARINE CORPS![/size=6][/b]
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 12:21:42 PM EDT
I fired a friends several years ago, and decided i had to have one. And then the tikerer in me took over and I stripped it down to every last part, without any instructions. Then reassembled. I like to see how things work. Ever since then, I have enjoyed these things even more.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 2:04:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By vedubin01: I have started to grow interest in the workings of the AR and I ask where did all of you gain your knowledge of the gun from?
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I joined the Army. I got all the M-16 I could stand.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 4:03:07 PM EDT
I got into guns very young, like around 8. I got interested in the Sport Utility Rifles when I was about 10. I have had a subscription to Guns & Ammo since I was about 9. That was my #1 source of gun info for years. When I was 12 I saved up $600.00 and my dad bought me my first AR. I was torn between between an AR and an H&K 91. I am glad I got the AR. About a year later I bought one of Duncan Long's "The AR-15/M16 A practical guide" books. This was a great foundation for me. Long has a newer one out called "The complete AR-15/M16 sourcebook". I highly recommend you read it. In 1998 I started hanging out here and REALY started to learn. My foundation help me make sence of what was being discused here. In 1999 I attending the Colt Law Enforcement Armorers School. Even with all this behind me I learn something new every time I come here. I have seen a lot of BS on here but that is usually pointed out very quickly by other board members.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 4:28:17 PM EDT
my dad he was in the army and he showed me how to shoot it, clean it and all that fun stuff
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 4:36:05 PM EDT
Four years in the Army as a grunt taught me how to keep my weapon clean and functioning. It wasn't until I was a civilian and started spending my own $$$ on guns that I really learned the "ins and outs" of AR's (or most other guns for that matter). Spending your own hard earned duckies has a way of making you more attentive and inquisitive :)
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 4:39:27 PM EDT
Small Arms of the world and my owners manual and plenty of guys at my range who used one for real.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 4:43:38 PM EDT
... Honestly? It was way before the Internet. Way before it was cool. I was a gunnut when it was unpopular. Back then the IMI Galil, Valmet, Daewoo (K2), AK47 (and variants), G3, FAL and AR15 were all the shnitz. ... My closest friends thought my "hobby" was bitchin' but their significant others protested their personal appropriations of said tooling.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 5:16:55 PM EDT
Back in the mid to late sixties I worked for a surplus/salavge dealer who acquired a lot of slick side M-16s which the barrels were cut and the lowers and uppers were beat with a sledge. I would spend hours seperating military gun parts. Chopped M14 receivers with good sights, op rods ect. Very few of the crushed 16 parts had salvagable parts. These old timers I worked for cussed the M16 because what they had heard from Vietnam and they refused to accept a "plastic" rifle-so different from M-14, a manly man's rifle. In the mid sixties I use to ride a bus to town with my brother and another friend to watch a movie at one of the local movie theaters. We would always stop at the uptown sporting goods store I would always drool over an SP-1 which was supended with twine above one of the gun display counters. The price was a little over 300 bucks new. By the time I could afford an AR, the price was of a Colt, the only game in town, was well over 800 bucks. I purchased an Oly stop sign kit in the early eighties for under 400 bucks. A tight chamber was my only problem with my first build. I did not have any other Ars to compare it to, so I thought it was the best made, besides it was close to the "real thing" with the push pin pivot. I would have bought a Bushy, but they cost a little more, and they did not post the price of a stripped lower. After building two more Olys in the late 80s, I was just thinking yesterday that I sure wished AR-15.com was around back then. AR15.com has everything you wanted to know about an AR15, but were afraid to ask. Every problem that could happen to an AR has been posted here and most if not all have been diagnosed and resolved! The resources here are unbelievable including the equipment exchange. Your online resource to building, troubleshooting, upgrading, buying spare parts or complete weapons, reviews on accessories, and the best prices on ammo. I know I have forgot some of the over resources. Before I buy anything for my AR, I check here first for best price, and buy from the vendors who support AR15.COM. I always enjoy reading the opinions of the people who post here-they have saved me time and time again from buying somthing I did not need, nor that did not work.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 7:11:38 PM EDT
Thanks guys for sharing the love. Few questions still remain, if you are going to build another, what would you build? And the other question. What about the tactical gun classes. What is your take on that?
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 7:43:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/25/2003 7:44:14 PM EDT by 199]
Originally Posted By vedubin01: ... never thought Id own an assault weapon. ...
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I certainly don’t mean to sound fussy, but most AR’s aren’t really “assault weapons” since they aren’t full auto. Granted there are a lot of politicians, journalists and such that don’t know the difference. As far as local training goes, you might have better luck posting that question in the hometown forum of whatever state you’re interested in. I don’t know much about them, but I believe Options For Personal Security [url]www.optionsforpersonalsecurity.com/[/url]) sometimes does training in the Georgia and Florida areas. Also, while both pricey and a distance for you, you might also want to look at Blackwater Lodge ([url]www.blackwaterusa.com/[/url]). They’re in North Carolina near the Virginia border.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 7:50:07 PM EDT
One last question for now is in Ga. how do you go about finding a tactical gun class? What does that entail and how much does something like that run?
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IM Bookhound. He is the moderator in the GA forum and has taken some tactical courses from Super Dave. He can put you in touch with the right people.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 8:02:02 PM EDT
sorry assult type or "style" weapon, just not your average Joe hunting gun. Thanks for the leads and I will hit him up for the classes. Once again thanks!
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 8:47:06 PM EDT
ive learned a lot on here. more from keeping my mouth shut and listrening to others that know more than me. i am the family gunnut and have taken almost anyone that asks to the range with me. ive made a few converts here and there. thank god my wife is supportive of my hobby and shoots as well or i would have the misery i see some friends have with guns when they have to explain themselves to the wife. btw i consider a hunting rifle to be an assualt weapon too. the only difference i see is the size of the magazine and a bit less black. the effect is still the same. for all who wonder whether the politicos think like this all you need to do is look at the .50 in l.a..it fits no profile that they made in their draconian quest to eliminate military type rifles and its now a illegal assualt weapon in a municipality.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 9:09:32 PM EDT
I am using the ancient discipline of Shu Ting. I do as much Shu Ting as I can. But of course you must have balance. The Yin to Shu Tings' Yang is Klee Ning. Shu Ting and Klee Ning over and over and over. The down side to Shu Ting and Klee Ning is that it can lead to a desire to take up Bil Ding, and as any ancient master can tell you, Bil Ding is an expensive discipline to pursue. Ancient Wisdom.
Link Posted: 9/25/2003 10:53:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 2:55:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bjhueni: I am using the ancient discipline of Shu Ting. I do as much Shu Ting as I can. But of course you must have balance. The Yin to Shu Tings' Yang is Klee Ning. Shu Ting and Klee Ning over and over and over. The down side to Shu Ting and Klee Ning is that it can lead to a desire to take up Bil Ding, and as any ancient master can tell you, Bil Ding is an expensive discipline to pursue. Ancient Wisdom.
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... Ah so [LOL]
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 3:37:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bjhueni: I am using the ancient discipline of Shu Ting. I do as much Shu Ting as I can. But of course you must have balance. The Yin to Shu Tings' Yang is Klee Ning. Shu Ting and Klee Ning over and over and over. The down side to Shu Ting and Klee Ning is that it can lead to a desire to take up Bil Ding, and as any ancient master can tell you, Bil Ding is an expensive discipline to pursue. Ancient Wisdom.
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[ROFL] very clever
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 7:46:23 AM EDT
Troy, Thanks for the links. I have spent hours reading up on that. I have learned so much in a short amount of time. There are things in there that I would have never thought to have asked! I just need to win the lotto and buy several more so I can play around like some of you. Thanks for the help and please add anything else that you might think can bennifit me or anyone else reading this post. Thanks again!!!
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 8:26:22 AM EDT
USMC, 1973-1994. Once I retired, I sold my two prebans, a Colt Target and Bushy Commander for no good reason, other than I thought I was tired of them. It wasn't until I rejoined my old gun club and started reading stuff on this board, AK-47.net, Assault Web and the FAL Files that I reignited an interest in un-PC weapons. First, I modified my SAR-2 into a Campyclone, then built my first FAL last summer and built eight to date. That got me started on buiding ARs, the first of which was my RRA heavy barrel. Number two frankengun should be done today if my stuff gets here from ADCO. I'm building on an Eagle Arms lower using RRA internals/flatop upper/brake, Colt bolt carrier group and 1 in 7 barrel; Bushy FF tube and ACE tubular stock. Number three will be based on the Bushy varminter fluted barrel using an Armalite lower. I like Bushmaster, but I hate that stupid snake on the side of the lower.
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 8:27:05 AM EDT
I was first introduced to the M-16 courtesy of the Army. However, I learned the in & outs of it right here (actually at the old AR15.com).
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 8:34:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bjhueni: I am using the ancient discipline of Shu Ting. I do as much Shu Ting as I can. But of course you must have balance. The Yin to Shu Tings' Yang is Klee Ning. Shu Ting and Klee Ning over and over and over. The down side to Shu Ting and Klee Ning is that it can lead to a desire to take up Bil Ding, and as any ancient master can tell you, Bil Ding is an expensive discipline to pursue. Ancient Wisdom.
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Grasshopper, remember when pursuing the Bil Ding, do not become too obsessed with the Bling Bling. A most expensive problem.
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 5:08:38 PM EDT
Hung out with my dad (now a retired US Marine GySgt), My dads boss was then Major Jack Muth and then LtCol Dave Lutz aka 'coldblue' here on AR15.com They worked at Firepower at Quantico (where the M16A2 was developed). There I learned much about the M16 and a bunch of other cool firearms. I learn a lot here too.
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 5:09:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/26/2003 5:31:02 PM EDT
The most accurate barrel to my understanding is the Krieger, it's the one that Frank White of High Power Riflesmiths reccommends for his builds. I don't know how a M4 barrel can be better unless you are putting on a grenade launcher. Barrel fluting is supposed to increase accuracy and allows the barrel to cool faster. M4 barrels are the in thing though. The longer 24" barrel would be the more accurate but heavier and more unwieldy. I think most on the board would say that a 16" or 14.5" with a compensator bringing it to the leagal 16" is more fun and just about as accurate up to 200 to 300 yards. There is allot of difference in between ammo but some rifles will shoot better than with others. Better ammo can be expensive too. Many on the board say the 69-77 grain Black Hills ammo is very accurate. If you want an gun built to the highest standards I would call some of the vendors on the EE that do that kind of work and they would give you the best most accurate information. Iv'e learned most of what I know on this board and places like Marylands ar15 site, it is loaded with great information. As far as what I or anybody else would build, everybody is different, what I would reccommend it to go at the top of the page and check out the pictures of all the different rifles and you will find what you like and don't like. Money will be a big part of how high end and what features you want. Have fun.
Link Posted: 9/27/2003 5:51:23 PM EDT
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