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Posted: 9/21/2003 1:39:47 PM EDT
How much would I expect to pay for a complete FN preban-M4 upper? I only need the M4 handguards, don't need the carry handle yet.

Quotes I've been getting are over $550.....

What is the quality of the STAR Uppers and who is the manufacturere?
Link Posted: 9/21/2003 3:23:08 PM EDT
FN doesn't make M4s
Link Posted: 9/21/2003 4:52:34 PM EDT
And they don't sell M16 parts to civilians.
Link Posted: 9/21/2003 5:09:15 PM EDT
Bravo Sierra. Don't try to tell me FN doesn't make flat top uppers or parts. I've had a complete FN M4 16 inch barreled upper before and sold it last year, I got it from JT Distributing. Who said anything about M16 parts? I'm looking for a COMPLETE PREBAN M4 Upper for my AR15A2 HBAR lower. What's wrong with the question I asked? Can't I get a straight answer here?
Link Posted: 9/21/2003 5:39:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2003 5:41:47 PM EDT by DevL]
FN does not sell to civilians to my knowledge. Most people who think they have FN parts do not. Edited to add: FN does not make M4 barrels for civilian or military markets. Whoever is giving you a price quote is lying to you.
Link Posted: 9/21/2003 5:42:51 PM EDT
How does JT get away with saying they are selling F.N parts if they are not?
Link Posted: 9/21/2003 5:56:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By storminnorman: How does JT get away with saying they are selling FN parts if they are not?
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Ask them if there M4 style barrels are FN. Real FN 20" M16A2 barrels are marked FNMI, and they are chrome lined. Only COLT has the contract to make real 14.5" M4's Most of the cheap parts places like M&A, Model 1 sales, are using Wilson barrels, non-chrome lined civilian barrels. they're not bad barrels, but they are not FN or mil-spec. Some of these gunshow elcheapo dealers are selling Chinese parts. I saw some carry handles at the last gunshow, the box even said "Made in China" Keli, I'm not bullshiting you, I'm trying to give you a straight answer. Sorry if you don't like it.
Link Posted: 9/21/2003 6:14:52 PM EDT
Hahaha, I was asking myslef who is this Bravo Sierra he's talking to!? Hahaha. Serious, this is no BS. FN doesnt make M4's and anyone who told you they did, or sold you one is basically, well... full of Bravo Sierra! You cant even get ahold of the stuff they do make because they are prohibited by law to sell it to the commercial market. Anything you have got or may have gotten that either says FN or was sold to you as FN is either; Stolen property Factory rejects or From some place that may make stuff for FN, but that does not make it FN.
Link Posted: 9/21/2003 6:52:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2003 7:08:50 PM EDT by d_jones]
Originally Posted By new-arguy: Hahaha, I was asking myslef who is this Bravo Sierra he's talking to!? Hahaha. Serious, this is no BS. FN doesnt make M4's and anyone who told you they did, or sold you one is basically, well... full of Bravo Sierra! You cant even get ahold of the stuff they do make because they are prohibited by law to sell it to the commercial market. Anything you have got or may have gotten that either says FN or was sold to you as FN is either; Stolen property Factory rejects or From some place that may make stuff for FN, but that does not make it FN.
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FN is one of the current contractors for the M16 for the US government, that is common knowledge, M&A has sent me confirmation IN WRITING that they will sell an FN upper receiver, if that was false I could sue them for fraud. Why would they lie about that. The uppers are marked FNMI, so I suppose these are forgeries too? What gives?
Link Posted: 9/21/2003 6:57:08 PM EDT
I'm sure the upper's from JT are FN manufactured, the barrels are Wilson. Who are they getting their UPPERS and other parts from? Are they DPMS? Oly? What?
Link Posted: 9/21/2003 7:05:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/21/2003 7:16:01 PM EDT by d_jones]
FN Manufacturing produces small caliber weapons and machine guns such as M16, M240, M249, SAW, and the 49 pistol for military and law enforcement markets. FN Manufacturing is one of the US Army's prime contractors of small arms. FN Herstal produces: M16 5.56mm assault rifle (NATO standard) (also produced by Colt Manufacturing) M249 Minimi 5.56mm machine gun FN MAG (NATO standard machine gun) M240 7.62 x 51mm armor machine gun It appears that they do not make the M4 Barrel Stamping Information Barrel Manufacturer Stampings Manufacturers Stamp Manufacturer B Bushmaster C Colt D Diemaco FNMI FN SAK SACO Barrel Manufacturing Stampings Manufacturing Stamp Meaning MP Magnetic Particle Tested C Chromed Chamber CB Chromed Bore HBAR HBAR Barrel Profile Barrel Stamping Methodology Manufacturer Quality Control Caliber Barrel Twist MISC Examples C MP CHROME BORE Colt Magnafluxed with a chrome lined bore C MP 5.56 NATO 1/9 HBAR Colt Magnafluxed, in 5.56 NATO, 1 in 9 twist, with a HBAR profile
Link Posted: 9/21/2003 8:45:40 PM EDT
I'll sell you some FN parts. I have no FN idea who made them, just Like JT & everyone else that claims to sell FN parts. If you have real FN parts then it's something someone stole from the military or dug out of their scrap reject pile, becuase they are bared from selling on the civilian market.
Link Posted: 9/21/2003 8:53:35 PM EDT
If you try to pin down J&T or any of the others about their "FN" parts they'll eventually weasel to something along the line of "Well, they're made by the same place that supplies the parts to FN, so they're just as good. No, really. We wouldn't lie to you about this." They may be perfectly good parts, and I've always been satisfied with the stuff I've bought from J&T, but there's no F'in way that they are really selling FN parts. The last upper I bought that was supposedly an FN upper had the worst finish I've ever seen on an upper so maybe it did come from FN's reject bin, but that hardly makes it desirable.
Link Posted: 9/21/2003 11:28:27 PM EDT
No, no, no… I bought a bunch of parts from a guy at the gun show who swore they were real FN. The guys at the gun shows don’t lie. If you’re able to buy it, IT’S NOT FN. And FN doesn’t have anything to do with the M4 If you want real M4 parts start looking for the horsie. J
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 12:39:01 AM EDT
Bushmaster also has real M4s in service. They just dont have the feed ramps...
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 5:59:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2003 6:00:11 AM EDT by _DR]
Originally Posted By AR15fan:"I DO NOT READ THIS BOARD, NOR DO I CARE ONE BIT WHAT A FEW WHINY COMPUTER GEEKS HAVE TO SAY." -Ken Elmore 9/6/03 Owner of SAWLESALEs.COM
AR15fan, I was going to use this quote as my signature, you beat me to it. I'll have to use another of his noxious statements instead...plenty to choose from though. Let his words live in infamy, I say.
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 6:16:36 AM EDT
Keli, these guys in the posts above are not bullshitting you. I bought a supposed FN upper from Sherluck a while back.. I should have read the site first. What a f$#@ucking piece of out of spec shit. It NEVER worked right.. The upper kept the mag from going in properly unless you eally reefed on it. It wouldn't shoot 100 rounds in a row with out chambering problems, and it wan't all that pretty. I finally just dumped it and bought a BM upper, and it has run like a top since. These guys are not shitting you bro...it ain't what they claim it is. At a recent show I saw a guy with mags that said COLT AR15 on the bottom, but with no COlt horsie logo. The guy would not come out and say they were really Colt's no matter HOW I asked him... Watch your ass on this stuff. And by the way, if you only need M4 handguards, why the hell do you need to buy a complete upper to get them...?????????????
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 6:58:37 AM EDT
I have a very close friend whom is the FN factory western region rep, the word from the horse's mouth is [bold]FN DO NOT SELL PART OR COMPLETE GUNS TO CIVILIAN[/bold]. FN contract a lot of the M16 parts through various sub contractors, and the products that does not meet FNMI QC then those parts are free to be sold through the sub contractors. FN will stamp the FNMI on thier barrels so if you have don't have a FNMI stamping then you don't have a FN barrel. same for uppers. JT and other delaers will call parts FN because the sub contractor they got it from are the true FN sub contractors and they do make parts for FN but those aren't FN parts until FN put a stamp approve mark on them. no BS just facts.
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 8:30:25 AM EDT
JT has never advertized having FN parts to my knowledge. They consistently state that have FN [i]CONTRACT[/i] parts. Meaning that they get them from FN's source; not from FN themelves.
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 10:22:18 AM EDT
I hate this question! No they are not "stolen" parts, no they are not "rejects". [rolleyes] The answers are given by JTD in this thread; [url=ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=4&t=141117]Are FN parts prohibited parts?[/url]
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 12:26:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 1:19:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2003 1:23:49 PM EDT by imposter]
J&T sells good stuff, but it is no better than an RRA receiver which I think can be had for less money. I don't think it would be misleading to say that J&T's upper comes from a FN Contract[i]or[/i]. J&T also claims they use Colt fire control components, but I have heard it said that they only buy them from the same place Colt does. J&T has sold M16A2 barrels in the past. I don't know who made them.
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 1:35:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2003 1:37:04 PM EDT by Keli]
Look. I'm not a rich, silver-spoonfed, wealthy person. I don't have daddy paying my bills or buying me guns. I have a family to feed and billz to payz. At this point in the thread I don't care where the hell an M4-gery style upper comes from, what proofs they have or if it is a Hartford horsie. I just want you guys to point me in the right direction to get a nice M4-gery style upper to slap on my HBAR lower. Can ya'll do that? The lower is a preban Colt, that's all I care about......pretty much......I want the upper to WORK. I don't have very high standards or want to attach every accessory but the kitchen sink. I just want another pre-ban upper that worked as good as the one I got from JTD while still putting food on the table for my family. Thanks for all the sincere replies on the FN situation. I see advertising all over the place pimping FN parts or FN contracted parts.....how can anyone get away with just saying they come from the same source as FN or Colt or whoever? So, does anyone actually have a NAME to the supply of uppers and other parts being dished out to JTD and all the other parts sellers?
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 1:49:06 PM EDT
HBAR lower? by the way your best bet is Rock River Arms, go look at there website and see if they have something you want.
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 2:05:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By tivoli410: HBAR lower? by the way your best bet is Rock River Arms, go look at there website and see if they have something you want.
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You know.....AR15A2 HBAR?
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 2:23:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2003 2:25:43 PM EDT by Ghost-Shooter]
One of the configurations Colt sold their ARs is AR15A2 HBARs which means they have an A2 carry handle HBAR (heavy barrel) upper. M4 is a barrel profile, meaning that its thin (~0.60") under the handguards and has the M203 grenade launcher cut about 2" in front of the front sight. As far as a complete upper goes (upper receiver, barrel, handguards, gas block/front sight, gas tube, barrel nut, delta ring, handguard cap, bolt, bolt carrier and charging handle all assembled, ready to be put on a lower), M4 style flat-top uppers can be had from Bushmaster, Colt, DPMS, Olympic Arms, and a couple of others. Most complete factory uppers will cost close to $500, but they are factory assembled and will work. Bushies are usually pretty steep, but you can usually find a few others that are cheaper. CMMG has DPMS Pre Ban 16" M4A3 1 in 7" twist, chrome lined barrel uppers for $499, and they will throw in a carry handle for I think $75. Link: http://www.cmmginc.com/inventory_a/uppers_tbl.html Hope this helps. Ghost
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 2:24:37 PM EDT
yes I know, but HBAR refers to a heavy barrel, nothing to do with the lower. you check out RRA yet?
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 2:53:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/22/2003 2:53:38 PM EDT by d_jones]
Originally Posted By Keli: So, does anyone actually have a NAME to the supply of uppers and other parts being dished out to JTD and all the other parts sellers?
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Don't know about JTD but here is who makes parts for some of the bigger outfits: Continental Machine Tool of New Britain, CT makes most of the major components for Rock River Arms, Colt and Bushmaster. Lewis Machine & Tool makes Armalite's parts. Yankee Hill Machine Company makes many of the accessories. (they sell direct). Barrels can come from a number of companies, such as Wilson and Krieger. The only company that still manufactures ar15 type rifles with it's own parts is Olympic Arms.
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 5:29:35 PM EDT
Keli: Check out Legal-Transfers (Pete Southwick) in the Equipment Exchange on this board. He uses RRA parts and is very good to deal with. If you know someone who can put on a barrel, you can put together a Bushmaster barrel (the best IMHO) with an RRA upper/bolt/carrier/charing handle for under $450.
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 5:57:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Keli: I just want you guys to point me in the right direction to get a nice M4-gery style upper to slap on my HBAR lower. Can ya'll do that? The lower is a preban Colt, that's all I care about......pretty much......I want the upper to WORK.
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Check out the uppers from [url=ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=174919]CMMG[/url] on the EE, available in 14.5" and 16".
Link Posted: 9/22/2003 6:16:15 PM EDT
Yes, CMMGinc.com has some real sweetness in the form of new colt uppers, and also some nice gov't profile DPMS 1 in 7 twist preban uppers.
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