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Posted: 9/13/2003 5:54:57 PM EDT
A few days ago I took delivery of a new Colt 6400c M4 and I find myself in uncharted territory with this little carbine. This M4 is the first AR I've ever owned that I'm considering to use in a home defense role. My other two ARs (preban Colt 6601 HBARs) are set up mainly for recreational target use, although they are certainly reliable enough to be used in a SHTF type of scenario.

Now that it's here I'm trying to figure out how I want it set up. I've decided on a CompM2, an ARMS BUIS, and a Surefire forend-but I haven't given any thought at all to the trigger. Part of me says that a defensive gun should be left stock. I will be shooting this gun a lot though so I'm thinking that I should at least have the action cleaned up by a decent smith.

In my old Bushy I went through two drop in triggers and wasn't happy with them due to their lack of long term durability. I'm also concerned about reliability under hard use with an aftermarket fire control system.

What do you guys do for your CQB carbines-stock, action job, or drop in trigger?

Thanks in advance

Link Posted: 9/13/2003 6:29:52 PM EDT
I keep mine stock.Less to worry about.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 6:46:36 PM EDT
I'm in the same boat as CJan. I just got rid of a lower that had a Jewell trigger in it. The two lowers I have now have stock RRA triggers. What I'd like to find is something in between the Jewell and a standard trigger. But, to me, the most important thing is durability and standard parts. I may be looking for something that doesn't exist. [:(]
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 7:23:27 PM EDT
I've heard (so i have no personal experience on this one) that RRA two stage triggers are duarable, and a pretty nice trigger to boot.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 8:34:47 PM EDT
"The Word" is actually two words. Accuracy Speaks.
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 7:54:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2003 7:54:46 AM EDT by CJan_NH]
Thanks for the replies all. Anyone else?
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 7:58:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2003 8:00:32 AM EDT by new-arguy]
If you want a great trigger and keep it ultra durable, you get the Accuracy Speaks. By its simple and rugged design, no other trigger is able to be as fail proof. Does your Colt have the large diameter pins? If so, does Accuracy Speaks make a trigger for large diameter Colts?
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 8:27:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2003 9:53:30 AM EDT by Matt_B]
Originally Posted By new-arguy: Does your Colt have the large diameter pins? If so, does Accuracy Speaks make a trigger for large diameter Colts?
View Quote
I went to Accuracy Intl.'s site to check them out. The Service Grade Single Stage Trigger is available in both small and large pin versions. However, they make no mention pin size for their National Match Single Stage Trigger. I take it you have 1 or more of these triggers Neil? [:)] BTW, thanks for the info.
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 8:32:16 AM EDT
Actually, no I dont even have one. I have tried them many times but still havent gotten one. I do have a JP and a Knights trigger, and love each of them. But the Accuracy Speaks is a more simple and fail proof design than either, or in fact, anything else.
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 8:32:18 AM EDT
Try high power riflesmiths. They have a great reputation. The have a trigger they call compass lake engineering in which they use your original trigger and do extensive modifications. Here is the page which has the different triggers they offer. http://www.highpowerrifle.com/triggers.htm Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 12:22:15 AM EDT
Realize that an Accuracy Speaks trigger is not a drop in trigger. It requires some smithing or grinding to get it to not double on many rifles. The disconnector has released a tad early on several members rifles. Instructions come that explain how to get the trigger right for your individual rifle though and its really an excellent trigger.
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 4:25:44 AM EDT
I have a RRA lower with standard fire controls, including the "lawyer" trigger. It is a very clean trigger, but I would be interested in a DURABLE drop in that lowered it down to around 5lbs or so! I'll have to keep my eye on this post.
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 5:50:12 AM EDT
I'm probably going to pick up a RRA National Match 2 stage and try it out in one of my lowers. They're pretty inexpensive ($95 street price) and don't require any modifications. Heck, you can get (2) RRA National Match triggers for the price of (1) Jewell!! If the RRA works out, I can buy complete kits for spare parts. After all, one is none and two is one. [:)].
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 6:11:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/15/2003 6:16:04 AM EDT by TheRicker]
Link Posted: 9/15/2003 8:08:03 AM EDT
here's another vote for the accuracy speaks trigger. I have it in my two prebans and like it a lot. No adjustements to get out of whack, no screws to come unlocktited, just a very clean 4.5lb break. I could never go back to stock after putting good triggers in all of my ARs.
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 12:34:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2003 12:30:31 PM EDT by AK_Mike]
Originally Posted By new-arguy: "If you want a great trigger and keep it ultra durable, you get the Accuracy Speaks. By its simple and rugged design, no other trigger is able to be as fail proof." - "But the Accuracy Speaks is a more simple and fail proof design than either, or in fact, anything else."
View Quote
[>:/] I'm confused, how is an accuracy speaks trigger more fail proof than a reworked stock trigger, or say an RRA trigger (has no screws)? The RRA is a drop in, pull is around 4.5lbs IIRC, and there is no adjustments or fitting required to make it work.
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 8:07:12 AM EDT
akmike, not sure who you were asking but i'll answer. The AS trigger isn't more or less reliable than the stock trigger. It probably is more reliable than a trigger job done by someone who isn't a professional gunsmith with AR experience. I don't really know the RR trigger, tho i've heard good stuff about it, so i can't compare. The jewells, Mks etc all have screws for adujustement of various aspects. Although i love my MK trigger in my range rifle i wouldn't trust it on a defensive rifle.
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 8:21:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2003 8:22:35 AM EDT by CJan_NH]
Thanks again for the replies all. I think I'm going to simply have my smith clean up the stock parts. My other ARs have glass-rod-crisp five pound breaks, but I believe the smith who worked on those used polished oversized stock parts as opposed to a drop in kit. I've had two JP match triggers in past non-Colt ARs and they were okay, but they started to get sloppy after a few thousand rounds. They probably just needed to be adjusted-but doing so was beyond my purview at the time. As I said before I've never really considered my HBARs for a home defensive role, but this new carbine would be perfect for my wife if she becomes proficient with it. It will be a few weeks before I can have it done anyway-my checkbook has taken quite a beating this month [:)]
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 9:06:04 AM EDT
IMHO stock is best for a non-match gun. Dry fire the crap out of it and smooth it out. Reliability is everything.
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 11:24:41 AM EDT
To say the RRA trigger has no screws and therefore is reliable is very short sighted. It has turned into a single stage for several people and has failed entirely for some people. I would not put a RRA 2 stage in a gun I had to bet my life on.
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 12:10:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lumpy196: IMHO stock is best for a non-match gun. Dry fire the crap out of it and smooth it out. Reliability is everything.
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I, almost, agree with Lumpy196. I just use the $10. lightened action spring set from [url]jprifles.com[/url], with stock fire control parts.
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 12:19:27 PM EDT
When an instructor from a major school tells me that the most common cause of AR failures is bad magazines and aftermarket triggers....I listen. I loved me RRA 2-stage...until it went single stage after less than 1000 rounds. Yeah, I know there are fixes like filing and lighter springs...but I dont compromise on reliability.
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 12:45:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/16/2003 4:31:50 PM EDT by AK_Mike]
I'm not defending the RRA trigger alone, which I just picked cause it had no adjustments, but the failure Lumpy mentioned just said it went single stage, but did not fail to go bang (some prefer single stage but that's no justification for the failure). I also think that all triggers fail to some degree, and if the RRA has only failed for a small few out of thousands of units in use, that's not bad. Even the stock OEM trigger can fail. So can an Accuracy Speaks I imagine. I think the risk is quite small and worth it IMHO from what I have heard. Is that risk small enough to depend on it for a SHTF rifle? That's up to you. [;)]
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 12:48:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lumpy196: When an instructor from a major school tells me that the most common cause of AR failures is bad magazines and aftermarket triggers....I listen. I loved me RRA 2-stage...until it went single stage after less than 1000 rounds. Yeah, I know there are fixes like filing and lighter springs...but I dont compromise on reliability.
View Quote
Speaking of instructors, It was [url=http://64.177.53.248/ubb/Forum56/HTML/000497.html]this thread[/url] that got me thinking about this in the first place [:)]
Link Posted: 9/16/2003 12:50:37 PM EDT
That'd be one that made me NOT miss my match triggers.
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