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Posted: 9/8/2003 4:07:31 PM EDT
I know I have posted this before, but I only got a couple of responses. Maybe a more provocative subject line will help.

Opinions? Experience(s)?

I am looking for a med to long range weapon for deer size game.

Thanks in advance...
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 4:13:06 PM EDT
Medium to long range? Neither of those calibers will do, in my opinion. I'd consider both to be short range. MAYBE up to medium range. For what you want, I'd start at the 260Rem (MAYBE .243 Win) and work my way up towards the larger, faster calibers.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 4:26:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 7:29:06 PM EDT
How does the 7.62*39 do as far as distance goes? Not enough velocity? I'd think. Sorry to add to your question with another question but brought up a thought in my melon that I had to ask. [thinking] I've always used .270 for long distance, but the military uses .308 don't they? Damn there's another question!!!
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 7:30:27 AM EDT
7.62*39 will do close to what a 30-30 will do, if you are familiar with that cartridge. I know that .308 and .270 would be good choices, .270 being the flatter shooting of the two AFAIK. For deer I can tell you that an 85 grain Thunderhead broadhead on a "Gold Tip" 5575 arrow coming out of a Mathews Legacy bow works wonders. That probably doesn't help you much with your decision though [:D]
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 10:59:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2003 11:01:23 AM EDT by TAC40]
[size=2][b]Brou is right on. .223 is at best a 100 yard deer cartridge using 64gr PowerPoints. And I'd restrict 300 Whisper to 50 yards, due to the low velocities. -Troy[/size=2][/b] If you are loading sub-sonic loads I would agree. However, Troy, I am loading my 300 Whisper using 180 gr bullets to 2800 fps. COR-BON makes 150 gr soft points loaded to 2400 fps and is a light load for my rifle. I would feel comfortable for deer size game out to 175-200 yds using either load. The accuracy is there for making a good shot, and the heavier bullets (180 gr) still carry a lot of energy at that range. If I remember my 30-06 loadings, the 150 gr mil-surp ball ran at approx 3200 fps which is just 400 fps above my handloads. And this load was good out to 600+ meters. The detractors to 300 Whisper is the cost; barrel, dies, brass, etc. For the same amount of money one can purchase a good medium caliber bolt gun and decent optics that gives you more range and load availability.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 11:11:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2003 11:16:19 AM EDT by brouhaha]
Originally Posted By TAC40: If you are loading sub-sonic loads I would agree. However, Troy, I am loading my 300 Whisper using 180 gr bullets to 2800 fps.
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And you keep from blowing up your gun...how? The fastest load I've seen is a 125gr at 2400fps. I want to know how you're getting 2800 from a 180gr.
COR-BON makes 150 gr soft points loaded to 2400 fps and is a light load for my rifle.
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Corbon lists it's 150gr SP load at 2000fps. [edit]Here's a link for some loads. I think you're off by about 1000fps. [url]http://quarterbore.com/300whisper/supersonic.html[/url]
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 11:29:25 AM EDT
You're WAY off..if you're getting a 180gr .30 at 2800f/s out of a .300 Whisper I wanna see your load...and the recoil must be a treat out of an AR, too. [BS2]
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 12:24:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/9/2003 12:47:41 PM EDT by TAC40]
OK, OK you caught me. Read further Rifle: DPMS Target Lowrider target upper, AR carrier and bolt. Tn coated firing pin, AR15 Barrels slim profile 1/10 SS 16" match barrel from Douglas blank, DPMS lower with JT single stage trigger, A2 Stock with extention. The COR-BON commercial loadings ran consistently 200 fps higher out of my rifle than their specs stated. I had to reseat the 150 gr Soft Point COR BON loads to a shorter OAL so that they would chamber. The 150 COR BON's had recoil equivalent to XM 193, with little or no muzzle flash or rise. The 124 gr COR BON was equivalent to a 22 mag rifle. Very easy shooting. My load: 190 gr Sierra Matchking HPBT seated to 2.33" max OAL Federal .223 brass, once fired, formed with Redding Dies Winchester WSR primers seated using Forstner Coax priming tool 15 gr Hodgen H-110 powder (NOTE THIS LOAD HAD 2 OUT OF 10 PRIMERS BLOW OUT, USING THIS BRASS.) HIGH PRESSURE LOAD. This load was from a users error in setting the scale correctly. Velocity 10 ft from muzzle using Chrony - 2748 fps avg. Max deviation was 25 fps for 10 round string and outside temperature was 96F and 93% humidity. A very HOT and Sunny day with no overhead cover. 14.2 gr H-110 powder was 2390 FPS This load is considered max because of flattened primers. A check of the internal measurements indicates the bullet is in contact with the powder charge but not a compressed charge. I have read almost all of those loads you guys spoke about. Many of them are for the Thompson Contender pistols. I started with a 20% reduction in charge and worked my way up to signs of over pressure, ie, the primers. The recoil is moderate and muzzle flash obvious for this load. On all loads, accuracy was less than 1 MOA at 100 yds, usually grouping around 3/4" which is about as accurate as I can be. All of the primers seated with very little pressue on the tool. The blown primers may be caused by high pressure alone or in conjuction with loose primer pockets. My final loads will be worked up using once fired LC brass, but right now I am researching the effect of the thicker mil-spec brass on the pressure.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 12:52:30 PM EDT
Wow. That's a hot round.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 1:00:28 PM EDT
AR10.... 260Rem, 243Win, 300SAUM, etc....or just plain old .308. [;)]
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 1:20:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TAC40: OK, OK you caught me. Read further Rifle: DPMS Target Lowrider target upper, AR carrier and bolt. Tn coated firing pin, AR15 Barrels slim profile 1/10 SS 16" match barrel from Douglas blank, DPMS lower with JT single stage trigger, A2 Stock with extention. The COR-BON commercial loadings ran consistently 200 fps higher out of my rifle than their specs stated. I had to reseat the 150 gr Soft Point COR BON loads to a shorter OAL so that they would chamber. The 150 COR BON's had recoil equivalent to XM 193, with little or no muzzle flash or rise. The 124 gr COR BON was equivalent to a 22 mag rifle. Very easy shooting. My load: 190 gr Sierra Matchking HPBT seated to 2.33" max OAL Federal .223 brass, once fired, formed with Redding Dies Winchester WSR primers seated using Forstner Coax priming tool 15 gr Hodgen H-110 powder (NOTE THIS LOAD HAD 2 OUT OF 10 PRIMERS BLOW OUT, USING THIS BRASS.) HIGH PRESSURE LOAD. This load was from a users error in setting the scale correctly. Velocity 10 ft from muzzle using Chrony - 2748 fps avg. Max deviation was 25 fps for 10 round string and outside temperature was 96F and 93% humidity. A very HOT and Sunny day with no overhead cover. 14.2 gr H-110 powder was 2390 FPS This load is considered max because of flattened primers. A check of the internal measurements indicates the bullet is in contact with the powder charge but not a compressed charge. I have read almost all of those loads you guys spoke about. Many of them are for the Thompson Contender pistols. I started with a 20% reduction in charge and worked my way up to signs of over pressure, ie, the primers. The recoil is moderate and muzzle flash obvious for this load. On all loads, accuracy was less than 1 MOA at 100 yds, usually grouping around 3/4" which is about as accurate as I can be. All of the primers seated with very little pressue on the tool. The blown primers may be caused by high pressure alone or in conjuction with loose primer pockets. My final loads will be worked up using once fired LC brass, but right now I am researching the effect of the thicker mil-spec brass on the pressure.
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That's a TRULY AWESOME load you have there!!!! According to Quickload 15 gr H110, 180gr Nos BT (the program didn't have the 190) holding the 2.33 OAL (to keep pressures down), you should be getting 1650 fps with a max chamber pressure around 45600 psi. I've been thinking about getting an upper in .300 and that would be perfect, to hell with a heavy 308 rifle I could just buy an upper and get you to load some ammo for me. Nah I don't think so!!
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 1:22:03 PM EDT
I give you TAC40's new round: [size=6].300 Hush-A-Boom[/size=6]
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 1:23:24 PM EDT
First and foremost, I always make my handloads hot. It is a quirk of my nature that I believe in magnum performance in all guns. My first pistol I bought was a Ruger Super Blackhawk in 44 mag. Later, I graduated to a 44 AUTOMAG and had to make my own loads, layered loads of Bullseye, Red Dot, and 2400 powders. Talk about a kick. I never lost that zeal for the feel of a weapon going off. After I posted my load data, I went back and compared my notes of the loads I have worked up to those published and available from other sources. I had a terrible time working up loads. Just about everything about a published load was different. What was listed as max OAL for a particular bullet, would not chamber in my rifle. My maximum OAL on some loads was as much as 1/10 of an inch longer than the published data. As I stated earlier, the COR BON 150gr soft point rounds would not chamber in my rifle. I had to reseat the bullet to a shorter OAL due to the bullet profile. Some powder charges listed were obviously compressed charges, etc. With all of the differences I had between the published data and what I worked up just to fit my chamber, I now see why there is significant differences between my results and the published data. They are completely different rounds. Comment was made about recoil. I have been shooting M1 Garands for DCM competition for years using military ball. My hunting rifles are 30-06 loads. I don't feel that the recoil from them is bad, because I am used to it. Therefore, I tend to judge all recoil based on this. The HOT 180 gr load had a noticeable recoil which I deemed moderate, not at the 30-06 level but definitely lets you know it is there. Is this rough on the AR based rifle, I don't know. I know that when I blow out primers, that is not a good thing and the load must be adjusted. Some of you will call, BS, but these are my loads for MY rifle. They work for me, but you guys may not want to shoot them from your rifles. That is one of the reasons I don't shoot anybody's reloads from my weapons but my own. and I don't offer my reloads for you to shoot in yours.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 1:24:43 PM EDT
Actually, I don't doubt you, now..I was just busting your balls.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 2:17:27 PM EDT
No problem there. And yes I am sometimes the first one to call BS to something that is contrary to what I have read. Working on this rifle has opened my eyes to a segment of the shooting world I never knew existed. All of my previous reloading experiences have been with established loads and cartridges. Since I came to AR15.com and got bit by the BLACK RIFLE Bug, I was able to take a chance and do something different. Thus, I built a 300 Whisper. But as with all true wildcats, I did not have a well travelled road to follow but a small path through the woods. Luckily, the membership here provided the information and guidance I needed, although sometimes it was not followed. Thanks, and keep calling B/S to keep me honest.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 3:09:19 PM EDT
TAC 40..."The way to tai-quon-leep is not a path to a door, but a road to the horizon". Wondering if you could break that rule about not loading for others...I am interested in your 300 Tac40 Magnums. How much per box of 20? lol Maybe I should go with the 50 Beowulf... But that is a thread of a different color!
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 3:33:44 PM EDT
Originally Posted By QuietShootr: I give you TAC40's new round: [size=6].300 Hush-A-Boom[/size=6]
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Funny! [/Natasha and Boris voices] TRG
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 4:38:24 PM EDT
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 6:38:36 PM EDT
Boot to the head!
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