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Posted: 9/7/2003 11:40:34 AM EDT
I saw that someone was using a 7.62x25 case with a 5.56 sabot bullet to get some seriously fast rounds out of a pistol. I have also seen the .308 loaded with a 5.56 bullet. Has anyone tried a 7.62x39 with a 5.56 bullet? I was thinking about trying something like this with my SKS AK or 7.62x39 uppered AR15.
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 1:06:18 PM EDT
LOL, yes, the U.S.S.R. did it in 1974, it's called the 5.45x39mm and it's used in the AK-74. On a similar note FN has a pistol round called the 5.7x28mm that'll really knock your socks off. You can read about it in Octobers issue of "Guns & Weapons for Law Enforcement". Look for a copy and check it out. Talk to ya'll later. TN.Frank
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 2:14:32 PM EDT
Good point concerning the 5.45 frank.
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 2:26:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TNFrank: LOL, yes, the U.S.S.R. did it in 1974, it's called the 5.45x39mm and it's used in the AK-74. On a similar note FN has a pistol round called the 5.7x28mm that'll really knock your socks off. You can read about it in Octobers issue of "Guns & Weapons for Law Enforcement". Look for a copy and check it out. Talk to ya'll later. TN.Frank
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Sorry, but the 5.45x39 is not a 7.62x39 that's been necked down. Also, the 5.7x28 will not knock yours or anybody else's socks off. It's a pathetic round that is on par with the 22 Magnum in performance. It's going to get LEO's killed. Thankfully, REAL ballisticians have tested it and determined the same, warning many LE Departments away from it. The ONLY thing it has going for it is it's ability to penetrate armor. Big deal. If it does nothing AFTER the armor, it's useless. Oh, and both the pistol and ammo are currently restricted to LE/Mil use.
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 2:45:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By brouhaha: Oh, and both the pistol and ammo are currently restricted to LE/Mil use.
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Negative- ammo is available for civilian consumption at about $500 for 1k. If youre a little savvy, a civvy can pick up a FiveSeven with two 10 round mags for about $1600 IIRC. Not that Id ever buy one, but they are available.
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 2:54:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TopCrest: Negative- ammo is available for civilian consumption at about $500 for 1k. If youre a little savvy, a civvy can pick up a FiveSeven with two 10 round mags for about $1600 IIRC. Not that Id ever buy one, but they are available.
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Then that has recently changed. It's still useless. I'll take a revolver in .22 WMR over the 5.7.
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 3:36:40 PM EDT
I too, questioned the effectiveness of the FN pistol. They use the bullpup weapon in this caliber on Stargate, and its kinda cool to hold 100 rounds in the space of a clip that holds 20 or 30 in standard calibers...but I would have to pop something 3 times before they would notice. Like the .17 caliber...makes you say "WTF?" I also have seen the 7.62x25 rounds reloaded with a plasctic saboted 5.56 round. Chronographed at 2300 fps from a CZ pistol (was it a CZ-25 or 52, I dont remember). Thats about the same I get out of my 7.5" barrel AR AOW, with the same piece of lead. Thinking about getting one and decomissioning my AOW for CQB. Of course, the AR handles the 8" registered can alot better than the pistol would...I dont like to have my eardrums bleed. Never mind, Im set. WTF?
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 8:14:10 PM EDT
Brou - indeed, the FN 57 pistol is now available as a non-LEO/Mil variant, but why bother as you said. Regarding the "cool" factor of the P-90 ... to me, ergonomics of the reload are backward, and without the suppressor, this rifle is too easy to "muzzle brush" and get ugly. Opening a door with left while trying not to cross over yourself is something that will require practice. Also, drop a half-full (or was that half-empty) mag on the deck, and well, might as well have thrown it in the trash. If you want performance of that type round, go with the aforementioned 5.45x39 (Alexander Arms' Genghis upper perhaps) or else talk some gun smith into making you an upper in 5.7 Johnson Spitfire and use the Oly Arms 30 Carbine magazine conversion. Or talk a smith into building you an AR in 7.62x25 (just finished #3) and load with the .223 Timbs. That is the factory name of the 7.62x25 with the sabot. Don't get me started on the renaming bit, to me it should be called the 7.26x25 SLAP, but that is just my opinion [;)] Back to the original topic: Stewart Galleries is one of the two places that sells the sabots. They will provide load data for several 30 caliber rounds to use with these little gems. Remington now sells them factory load again, called the Accelerator, they USED to offer them in 30-30, 308 and 30-06, now IIRC only in 308. Stuporman - shooting the sabots through the can could lead to some bad voodoo, if the petals open inside the can ... which I suspect they will. The term baffle strike come to mind ... ouch.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 12:07:18 PM EDT
For those who are interested, I did some checking on the 5.7 Johnson. Reloading charts show a muzzle velocity of 2700 fps for a 50 gr bullet, 3000 fps for a 40 gr. I started to get a little exited about this until I realized that muzzle velocity for the 50 gr load is very nearly at the threshold for bullet fragmentation. Using a fmj bullet, performance is probably not real good. But if you used hollow points or soft points, it would probably be pretty effective. I don't know what the velocity would be out of a pistol barrel, but AMT made a pistol chambered for .30 carbine. You could probably get a barrel chambered for the Johnson and have a real .22 magnum-magnum. Bet its got a real fireball. I realize this is semi-hijacking the thread, but does anyone remember the old "Man from U.N.C.L.E." series? I remember we had some toy guns from the show. One was vaguely like the Mauser C96 broomhandle with a magazine in front of the triggerguard. Ever since then I've thought it would be neat to have a handgun the size of the broomhandle with a decent grip, chambered for .30 carbine (or 5.7 johnson) with a 6" barrel & flash suppresor. Use 15 rd carbine mags. Kind of an old fantasy.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 5:50:23 PM EDT
Quickload for the 5.7 MMJ suggests as follows 55 FMJ-BT (Hornady) in 16" bbl, 2515 fps max 50 SP (Hornady) in 16" bbl, 2657 fps max 40 V-max (Hdy) in 16" bbl, 2924 fps max With the 40 V-Max and [b]6" pistol[/b], 2220 fps max I would try the AMT in 30 carbine with sabots ...
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