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Posted: 9/6/2003 10:38:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/6/2003 10:51:34 PM EDT by G35]
www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=169140

If you are short on time, jump to the juicy part, which starts on Page 2 (or click link below).

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=169140&page=2
Link Posted: 9/6/2003 11:20:48 PM EDT
NYPATRIOT already posted a link in GD, as well. That guy's a real piece of work, isn't he? And to think there are guys defending him, basically saying that any company that actually practice good "customer service" are "kissing our ass". He just keeps on, pretty much trashing this site, the site staff, all the members, and implying that he's done with us mere humans, but STILL won't leave!
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 1:14:53 AM EDT
Hey ZARDOZ maybe we should do like the old days,we cant tar and feather AR15 members for sticking up with this jack ass but we can treat them like they dont exist and maybe they will go away,I have never agreed with every one on this site but like any other family we sometimes have disagreements but I still love this site and will stick up for it ,even for the members I dont always agree with and the members who stick up for him I will consider them trashing the site and membership also,hope fully Ken will go away like colts military contract eventually will.
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 3:00:01 AM EDT
Wow. Come to a website with 40,000 members and insult them all. He only wants LE and military business? Well there are a ton of cops who post here. I'm one cop who posts on AR15.com and wont be buying parts from that arrogant jackass.
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 3:51:02 AM EDT
I don't have a problem with him saying he doesn't really have time for civilian sales, but the fact that he is a condescending prick will follow him regardless of where he goes or what he does in life.
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 7:14:12 AM EDT
This reminds me of a gun show that I was at a couple weeks ago. The one in Harrisburg, Pa. A dealer stood up and said very loudly that he hates everybody. I was standing right next to him when he did this. And he said it twice not just once. Needless to say I was surprised and moved right along.
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 7:30:49 AM EDT
Ken Elmore = Todd Bailey(aka "Toad") of Special Weapons? Looks like they have the same style of customer service(i.e. NONE!). Oh Well, I'll just keep buying Bushmaster & RRA parts. Same or better quality, less $$$ & a lot less hassle.
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 7:52:36 AM EDT
Guess if he doesn't want civilian business, it might be a good idea to simply post that at the head of his web site, and tell anyone who calls that they do not accept individual orders. That sure would save a lot of hard feelings. The man has a right to organize his business any way he wants to. What ticks me off is that rather than simply saying that his company only does LE/Govt business, he posts a BS $50 minimum order limit. And if he really didn't care about what gets posted on this site, why all the time and energy responding to the postings of others? A very strange person.
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 9:01:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By armabill: This reminds me of a gun show that I was at a couple weeks ago. The one in Harrisburg, Pa. A dealer stood up and said very loudly that he hates everybody. I was standing right next to him when he did this. And he said it twice not just once. Needless to say I was surprised and moved right along.
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That story is funny as hell (although I'm sure I would not feel that way if I was standing next to him when he announced that.) Do you remember what his exact words were, and why it was that he said them?
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 10:07:59 AM EDT
danh01 said this:
You know what Ken? I have ordered from you at least 5 times this year alone. I'm glad you took time out of your busy million dollar empire to cater to my small potatoes needs. I have never had a single problem with your company in parts or customer service. But I think I will go to one of the many suppliers of REAL Colt parts out there. Did you go to the Todd Bailey/R Guns school of customer relations? You come to a AR15 specific board and insult customers and basically call them chump change? You insult one of the more knowledgeable staff members? And then you insult the site itself after all of 3 posts?!?
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Congratulations Mr. Elmore, you just got your ass owned! What an absolute fucking jerkwad.
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 11:02:14 AM EDT
if he really could give a shit about individual sales then why did he take the time to register here soley for defending his company on a nickel and dime sale and then progress to telling us all to go fuck ourselves? thats what's got me on the whole thing................
Link Posted: 9/7/2003 11:19:30 AM EDT
I he dosen't want to sell to us fine, No big loss here. Just don't come here and act like an ass. Scott
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 9:41:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By scottfn308: I he dosen't want to sell to us fine, No big loss here. Just don't come here and act like an ass. Scott
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Now that would really thin the place out some wouldn't it? [:D] Hell, I might even have to leave! I say give the guy a little bit of a chance. We could sure use his expertise, etc around here. The fact that he edited and deleted some of what he said means he probably had second thoughts. Maybe he realized we're not all a bunch of "computer geeks", maybe not. Who the hell hasn't gone off around here at least a couple of times? I've been considering buying a couple of things from him but haven't as yet. We'll see.
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 9:57:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By shamayim: A very strange person.
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Agreed, too bad for the Colt guys that have to deal with him. There was a member here with a tag line that was appropriate, something close to; "if it says Colt, can I post like an asshole?"
Link Posted: 9/8/2003 7:32:19 PM EDT
I got tired of reading the whole thread... seemed rather pointless about halfway through the second page... I have met Ken numerous times at the 'old' Pomona show, and found him to be a stand up guy... He does come across as being pretty abrasive in his posts here, but it doesn't seem like the guy I have met, as he has always taken the time to answer any questions I have asked him... Its too bad so many people have taken offense to his posts, as like I said, he was always a great guy when I dealt with him in person.... I will continue to do business with him, even though I don't spend a whole lot... Dave
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 5:37:31 AM EDT
Whoa!! Easy there! What is all this screaming and name-calling about? Mr. Elmore (I don't know him) just got done explaining, in a courteous professinal manner, that his business is not geared to the individual buyer. If there was some insult involved, I certainly did not see it. GG&G in Tucson operates this same way. They make some brilliantly conceived and competently built stuff but, in order to stay in business they have to put their military and LE customers first. They will be courteous enough to squeeze orders like mine in on a time-available basis. Where is the insult? Question: If you are at the drive-through at McDonald's, are you going to feel "insulted" and throw a childish tantrum when informed that they don't do oil changes there? C'mon, guys. Let's get a grip. SD
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 5:53:30 AM EDT
If he only wants LEO and military customers why is he at every Crossroads gun show in Phoenix? I won't do business with him anymore.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 6:44:23 AM EDT
i read through most of that post and i have to say te guy is lacking manners and respect but if hes running a successful business with the military($600 toilet seat)i know why he can behave that way. i for one wouldnt buy from him but there are people who swear he is the greatest when it comes to getting thir colts running they have every right to choose who they do business with, as for me and 39,992 other members i want to know my money is worth something to you and i am too. if i am not convinced of that then i will go where it is worth something.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 7:40:49 AM EDT
Look at his website, where he describes his accomplishments in the ‘about us’ section. I know that one must establish their credibility, but he goes WAAAAAYY beyond that, and makes some self-aggrandizing statement – no surprise there. I’m astonished he doesn’t have his picture surround be chaser lights, with flashing ‘Look At Me’ underneath.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 7:48:37 AM EDT
Ken and Tina are good people, they have made me feel like an important customer when I only order small parts from time to time. The thread has gotten out of hand and that is regrettable, I think we should look to put this behind and move on. I for one will still order my parts from SAW.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 8:01:16 AM EDT
I've had nothing but good experiences with SAWLEsales. Most recently, I bought a Colt accurized trigger kit, listed for $129 (IIRC) on the web site. They sold it to me for $79 as an unadvertised sale special. Ken was also great with some email questions I had relating to the purchase. I agree with SMGLee's sentiments above...
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 8:04:09 AM EDT
Are you guys absolutely 100% positive that its really him? Remember, people can sign up with fake identities and really hurt one's business or start a war. Remember Mike Malloy recently on pre-ban.com?
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 8:43:47 AM EDT
Energizer, It was Ken, I spoke to Tina the morning after and Ken was a bit upset that he got ganged up on at AR15.com, I think all the bad mouthing was because Ken was referring to one individual and all of sudden the mob got ahold of him and the whole thing went south. Internet can be a tough place because you never know how people will take the things you write and interrupt it. and of course when someone get upset, the tact goes right out the dorr and Ken might have typed some stuff that is not appropreiate for the board members but at least he see the problem and made changes after he cooled his head. I for one can understand his position and laos the position the board members took with him. I read all the replies and some of them really was out of hand for awhile. Let's just put this behind and move on, I think there is more important issue at hand such as what AR are we going to buy next.... [:)]
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 10:26:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2003 4:24:09 AM EDT by Spooge5150]
[b]Ditto![/b] to SMGLee. Good people at SAW. So let's call it a day.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 9:32:31 PM EDT
First time a read the thread I though he came off as a total jerk without any manners whatsoever. Re-reading the thread I relized that his first post was actually fairly civil, where things went south was when Green0 reponded to his post and basically egged him on. I think his error was that he just isn't used to how things work on a internet forums. You have to be very careful how you word things since you don't have body language to convey your thoughts. You also have to be careful in how you respond to difficult people, if you go off on them, expect to be piled on.
Link Posted: 9/9/2003 9:45:31 PM EDT
Never had a bit of problem with Ken or his customer service on personal orders. Piss in his Wheaties and gang up on him, what do you expect?
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 4:17:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SP10: I agree with SMGLee's sentiments above...
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As do I.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 4:23:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SMGLee: It was Ken,
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Glad you got an answer, I emailed him that night to verify and haven't got an answer back. To be honest, a lot of "family" shops suffer from this syndrome. From the owner's POV insulting the company is akin to bad mouthing his kids. Some have far too much ego invested in the Inc. Ken's a good guy. Opinionated, easily irritated, but a good guy.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 7:22:30 AM EDT
while i may be cetain that he is a good guy based on the people defending him, he came across as attacking everyone once he said to take the small potatoes civilian business and shove it. green was expressing frustration with a complete lack of customer service and got attacked for it. thats wrong, plain and simple,if ken had come on and said look guys,theres a war on and our boys in uniform come first i dont think anyone would have had a problem. we all know whats happening in the world now. i do sales and service quite a few accounts where they need stuff delivered within 24 hrs. if i cant deliver i dont bother with the blame game, i call and let them know when i think it will be delivered and let them make their decisions accordingly. it saves you from having to blame the mail. the customer is not always right but if you want to lose business say that loudly. i will not tolerate abuse of my workers but i will not ever tell my customer i dont want their business
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 3:30:37 PM EDT
If I was on fire, and that joker was the only person in town selling fire extinguishers, I still would not buy one from him. It reminds me of this dealer/shop owner who asked me if I was gonna buy something, or just look around all day (after being in his shop for only 10-15 minutes!) I sarcastically apologized for wasting his time and walked right the fuck out the door.
Link Posted: 9/10/2003 5:42:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/10/2003 10:00:43 PM EDT by GunsRule]
Ooooooh, Ken Elmore. The guy who stabbed his best friend in the back with a friggin light post when hsaid friend was getting a divorce. His friend who he worked out with and with whom he moved here from California. Ken's buddy would've won the divorce hearing beacuse his wife didnt have any money for a lawyer. So what did this gracious man Ken do? He hired his best friends wife so she could get money to get a lawyer to screw his friend out of quite a bit. It gets better, their shops were two doors away from eachother. Ken the guy who has "preban" FALs on his table called something wacky like STG57s for $3000. WTF is with HK flash hider and cheesy metric receivers. Curiously, the locking shoulders were perfectly flush with the outside of the receiver like someone pulled a goddamn belt sand job on them. Nowhere in any text has there been a mention of this mysterious, magical, almost unicorn-like rifle. Ken the guy who printed his own fake Ranger cert and has it hanging in his office. In reality, he was [s]merely Ranger qual'd and[/s] attached as a CE to a unit. But what do I know?
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 10:22:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/11/2003 10:23:42 AM EDT by Gadsen]
Ouch. Speaking from experience (as the giver of said sapping) messing around with someone's wife, during their divorce is a good way to get a sap across the face. D. AZEX
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 6:58:39 PM EDT
Good thing he doesn't our need business. he certainly won't be getting it now, not at least without a serious apology to everyone on this forum.
Link Posted: 9/11/2003 7:47:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lumpy196: Never had a bit of problem with Ken or his customer service on personal orders. Piss in his Wheaties and gang up on him, what do you expect?
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Yes, but does this guy honestly believe that Colt makes the only decent AR rifles and parts. That's simply ridiculous. For many years (mid '80s to mid '90s, for ex), the Colt stuff was clearly second rate, just like their 1911s were during the same period. Sure, it's improved under new ownership but it's not any better than BM. Also, what's this about BM not being mil-spec (aside from FA, of course)? He is full of shit.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 1:37:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2003 2:03:28 PM EDT by t-n-t]
Originally Posted By GunsRule: Ooooooh, Ken Elmore. The guy who stabbed his best friend in the back with a friggin light post when hsaid friend was getting a divorce. His friend who he worked out with and with whom he moved here from California. Ken's buddy would've won the divorce hearing beacuse his wife didnt have any money for a lawyer. So what did this gracious man Ken do? He hired his best friends wife so she could get money to get a lawyer to screw his friend out of quite a bit. It gets better, their shops were two doors away from eachother. Ken the guy who has "preban" FALs on his table called something wacky like STG57s for $3000. WTF is with HK flash hider and cheesy metric receivers. Curiously, the locking shoulders were perfectly flush with the outside of the receiver like someone pulled a goddamn belt sand job on them. Nowhere in any text has there been a mention of this mysterious, magical, almost unicorn-like rifle. Ken the guy who printed his own fake Ranger cert and has it hanging in his office. In reality, he was [s]merely Ranger qual'd and[/s] attached as a CE to a unit. But what do I know?
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Mr. Gunsrule: I will respond to this as I feel as if I am being attacked now. I am Ken's wife. Everything you just posted is totally false - you obviously know nothing of which you speak! The first situation in question goes as follows: couple getting a divorce - female my best friend, male not Ken's best friend. Did not move from CA with Ken, never worked out with Ken. Wife was not hired by Ken. I am the one and only female that has ever worked at SAW. She used her own money to get a lawyer and LET him walk away with practically everything! The FAL's you mention are pre-ban and are all custom built by Ken personally. All who own the few that were made are absolutely thrilled with them. By the way they do not sell for $3,000 - they sell for $2,195. And if you don't want to buy one - we won't force you. Ken has never lied about anything that he did in the military and unlike some people doesn't have to pin up fake certificates to feel good about themselves! I will not defend Ken any further as HE doesn't need it. I am very pleased with our relationship with our customer's. We have some of the best CUSTOMERS in the industry many of whom I feel are our friends not just customers. We do not lie, cheat or steal and those who would like to accuse us of the above activities neither know us or have any respect for HONEST business people. I have said my piece and am happy to say that you "Gunsrule" are neither a friend nor a customer of ours. Sincerely, Tina Elmore
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 2:31:06 PM EDT
You go, Tina.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 2:48:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2003 3:40:12 PM EDT by Killbot]
I hate to say it – but this is becoming like a god damn soap opera. The next thing you know, this Ken fellow will go into a coma, then awake to find that Mr. Green is actually his long lost half brother, and is now married to his wife, who got amnesia from a freak accident while reloading rounds of ammunition. Later on, it will be discovered that Ken, the one that woke up from the coma is actually Ron, Kens fiendishly evil identical brother, that is posing as Ken, in his minor role in an overly complex scheme to steal printing plates for the new twenty dollar bill.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 2:50:38 PM EDT
I wish some would let this die. When I can round up the funds, I would like to pick up a real M4 upper from Ken.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 3:02:18 PM EDT
What did I miss? Now Ken's wife is posting? Christ. OK everyone, take a ddep breath, swallow your przac pills, that means Ken and Tina and Gusrule or whomever ya'll are, and STEP AWAY FRO THE KEYBOARD! Now, that's better. If Kenny doesn't want our business, then fine. I wasn't planning on ordering from him anyway. However, if he has something I need and talks nice to me on the phone, I'll probably purchase it if the price is right, unless of course he shangaied his ex-best-friend's-wife while he was on a ranger assignment, but he wasn't a ranger so he couldn't have been on a ranger assignment, unless it was a secret, make that a double secret probation type thing. OH I'M SO CONFUSED NOW! Anyway, this has been fun.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 4:20:04 PM EDT
All I have to say is: anyone of you men/women who want to call in to SAW will be treated with respect as all of our customers are. If you just have questions, you are more than welcome to call or email them in and we will be happy to help. We have always been courteous and helpful of everyone who contacts our company. I agree about the soap opera crack! Thank you, Tina Elmore
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 5:12:45 PM EDT
I've always had excellent service from SAW, and Tina has always answered my email questions. But then again, I've never had a real need to have my ass kissed by people selling me stuff. If they treat me fair and try to fix any problems that may pop up, that's all I care about.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 5:54:15 PM EDT
The First rule of Net Discussion Forum posting: Have a THICK skin (Unfortunatly most folks do not!). Second rule: Believe half or what you read in print, and half again of what you read on the Net! Third rule: Expect a "Pile-on" mentality when posting against a sites grain. BTW, Thanks Tina and Ken for the quick delivery of Colt small parts I ordered recently (only $76).
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 5:57:37 PM EDT
Hell, don't change the channel now. This is just starting to get good! Let's get Ken back on line. I've got a Christmas list that keeps getting longer and they've got most all of the stuff I want. I'll gladly buy from him if he is a stand up guy like some of you say and he wants my business. If he doesn't then so be it. But I'm not a computer geek. At least I don't think so. Maybe a medical super freak. LOL.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 6:13:45 PM EDT
Ken is not a "computer geek" either. In fact that is what he usually labels me! I don't take offense to it - neither should anyone out here. In fact in Ken's world that is a compliment. Ken is extremely computer illiterate and (just to comment on a earlier post) Ken's version of edit is ripping the keyboard out of its socket and delete means throwing the keyboard out. We are happy to have new customers - many of which are in response to the ridiculous thread that was out here earlier. People respect the fact that we are a legitimate company and we do take care of our customers. There is no need for misunderstandings or hard feelings [kiss]. Just know that if you contact us - even if we take a little long sometimes to get back with you - you are just as important to us as our large gov't customers, who sometimes have to wait also. You business is important to us, but the vast majority of our customers are not individuals that doesn't mean we don't want you it just means that most of what we sell is restricted in some way and we do a lot of custom work for agencies. One thing you can be sure of - a portion of your purchase is not going to "Hand Gun Control" (I know evil words here) ala McDonald's! To quote my 6 year old son - "Guns don't kill people, McDonald's kills people!" Tina Elmore
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 7:40:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By t-n-t: Ken is not a "computer geek" either. In fact that is what he usually labels me! I don't take offense to it - neither should anyone out here. In fact in Ken's world that is a compliment. Ken is extremely computer illiterate and (just to comment on a earlier post) Ken's version of edit is ripping the keyboard out of its socket and delete means throwing the keyboard out. We are happy to have new customers - many of which are in response to the ridiculous thread that was out here earlier. People respect the fact that we are a legitimate company and we do take care of our customers. There is no need for misunderstandings or hard feelings [kiss]. Just know that if you contact us - even if we take a little long sometimes to get back with you - you are just as important to us as our large gov't customers, who sometimes have to wait also. You business is important to us, but the vast majority of our customers are not individuals that doesn't mean we don't want you it just means that most of what we sell is restricted in some way and we do a lot of custom work for agencies. One thing you can be sure of - a portion of your purchase is not going to "Hand Gun Control" (I know evil words here) ala McDonald's! To quote my 6 year old son - "Guns don't kill people, McDonald's kills people!" Tina Elmore
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Wow, I don't know how much more of that I can take! Listen, that douche came on this board and insulted everyone here without provocation. Posts like your last will not change that.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 8:53:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2003 9:02:28 PM EDT by G35]
Originally Posted By Dianabol:
Originally Posted By t-n-t: Ken is not a "computer geek" either. In fact that is what he usually labels me! I don't take offense to it - neither should anyone out here. In fact in Ken's world that is a compliment. Ken is extremely computer illiterate and (just to comment on a earlier post) Ken's version of edit is ripping the keyboard out of its socket and delete means throwing the keyboard out. We are happy to have new customers - many of which are in response to the ridiculous thread that was out here earlier. People respect the fact that we are a legitimate company and we do take care of our customers. There is no need for misunderstandings or hard feelings [kiss]. Just know that if you contact us - even if we take a little long sometimes to get back with you - you are just as important to us as our large gov't customers, who sometimes have to wait also. You business is important to us, but the vast majority of our customers are not individuals that doesn't mean we don't want you it just means that most of what we sell is restricted in some way and we do a lot of custom work for agencies. One thing you can be sure of - a portion of your purchase is not going to "Hand Gun Control" (I know evil words here) ala McDonald's! To quote my 6 year old son - "Guns don't kill people, McDonald's kills people!" Tina Elmore
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Wow, I don't know how much more of that I can take! Listen, that douche came on this board and insulted everyone here without provocation. Posts like your last will not change that.
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Dianabol, I am the "author" of this thread. So, you know I am not on SAW's side. But, I do disagre with
"Posts like your last will not change that."
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I do think that this does begin to make up for some things that Ken said in the past. Now, his wife comes here to "mend fences". I say "Great". This is what we all were wanting from Ken anyways - to show us respect and to value us as customers. Tina is doing this. [beer] Plus, as a married man myself, we married men know that the wife really "runs the show" anyway. [peep]
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 8:54:42 PM EDT
can we get a moderator to lock this sorry thread already?
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 8:58:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By danonly: can we get a moderator to lock this sorry thread already?
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I suggest that this thread remain unlock for a while longer. Maybe we can turn thing around, kiss, and make-up.
Link Posted: 9/12/2003 9:07:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/12/2003 9:12:23 PM EDT by NYPatriot]
Tina Elmore, you and your husband are beginning to spend a lot of time conversing with us Internet jerk-wads. If you REALLY have no use for these forums & the people who hang out here, then just go away!!! Trust me... the memory of your names, business practices, and the commotion that your husband caused will soon fade from our memories. If however, your husband would like to come back around, offer up an apology & acknowledgement that he actually came across like a boorish ass in his posts, then I for one would be willing to accept this act of good faith as proof that is actually the decent fellow that some people say he is. We have all made mistakes in our lives, and I suppose it is possible that Ken stepped off on the wrong foot the day he decided to post to AR15.com. I hate to see the gun community infight the way we often do, so if your husband wants to step up to the plate & say "let's start this relationship over" I imagine it would be well received. For what it's worth...
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 2:49:38 AM EDT
Originally Posted By t-n-t: You business is important to us, but the vast majority of our customers are not individuals
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Thats where you're wrong. All of your business comes from individuals. If a 10,000 man agency orders a truck load of rifles, that purchase order still comes from one man, the department purchasing officer or armorer, who probubly hangs out on AR15.com, and who Ken called a computer geek.
Link Posted: 9/13/2003 4:01:01 AM EDT
Im not going to lock this. If another mod decides to thats up to them. But if those of you who have posted personal attacks and called names dont start sticking to the subject, which seems to be SAWsales and customer service BTW, you may have difficulty posting in this, or for that matter, any other thread. Please be cool. Thanks! [:E]
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