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Posted: 8/22/2003 9:36:39 AM EDT
IMI is producing the "Tavor" 5.56mm bullpup rifle and the Israeli government has announced that they are adopting it for use by the IDF and will eventually phase out use of the M-16 family of weapons.

Looks a lot like the current British army L-85 bullpup, it is hoped that the new Tavor will perform up to Israeli expectations of reliability and ruggedness.

http://www.imi-israel.com/imi/doa_iis.dll/Serve/item/English/1.1.2.12.2.5.html
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 9:45:56 AM EDT
Tavor will go to specialized units not the entire army. Most of the everyday soldiers will still carry the M16, and why not, they are free from Uncle Sam. Looks like the Tavor will again take the place left open by the Galil.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 10:13:52 AM EDT
and probably be paid by our tax dollars again...we practically subsidize that country.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 10:23:26 AM EDT
Wonder if it will be more reliable than the L 85?
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 11:12:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/22/2003 11:14:09 AM EDT by DevL]
I thought the Tavor program was dead. Did something change? Barret was going to manufacture them so they could be paid for with US military funding but the deal fell through over a year ago.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 11:15:48 AM EDT
Go to [url]www.isayeret.com[/url] This site is very informative about the IDF and all the specialized units and their weapons. Those dudes love their M-16 Commandos.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 11:17:29 AM EDT
"IDF will phase out m16 " Well, Thats what they say. They also said the same thing about the Galil but the Tank units and aother are still using it.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 2:12:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By armoredsaint: and probably be paid by our tax dollars again...we practically subsidize that country.
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As well we should! Israel, aside from Biblical reasons, is our ONLY friend in that part of the world.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 2:44:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SMGLee: Tavor will go to specialized units not the entire army. Most of the everyday soldiers will still carry the M16, and why not, they are free from Uncle Sam. Looks like the Tavor will again take the place left open by the Galil.
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Actually, they are "free" only in the sense that Israel is required by the terms of the aid we provide to spend the money in the USA with American companies. They'd rather use it to buy stuff other than rifles, and that's why the Tavor program is still alive. Nobody, and I repeat NOBODY,in the IDF wants the Tavor; but the politicos keep insisting on a native designed piece for the IDF. The Galil is ONLY being issued these days to second line units, and only because they don't have enough M16's for everybody. IMI stopped production for the IDF years ago, That's one reason why there are so many Galil parts floating around the US these days[:D] My prediction? We'll all be a lot older and grayer before the IDF gives up the M16, and I seriously doubt that it'll be for anything like the current Tavor. They may still call it the Tavor, but the piece has already gone thru radical changes in design and appearance, and it'll go thru a lot more before it ever gets into service[:D]
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 3:53:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By M4_Aiming_at_U: "IDF will phase out m16 " Well, Thats what they say. They also said the same thing about the Galil but the Tank units and aother are still using it.
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Yea like we phased out the M-16A1, or how about the M-4 replacing the M-16A2, Least we not forget the Blackhawk replacing the Huey back in 87. All these systems are still in the inventory, and see service with the reserves and Guard. Point is it will be some time before you see a truly complete replacement. I'll bet that the IDF SF still gets to keep their M-4's too.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 3:53:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ipschoser1:
Originally Posted By armoredsaint: and probably be paid by our tax dollars again...we practically subsidize that country.
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As well we should! Israel, aside from Biblical reasons, is our ONLY friend in that part of the world.
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I am fed-up with taxes, but if the money has to go somewhere, better Israel than AIDS drugs for Africa (what nonsense). BTW, Egypt gets almost as much aid from us as Israel.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 5:12:08 PM EDT
Last I heard nobody was re-routing Israels funding for aids drugs for Africa.
Link Posted: 8/22/2003 7:19:06 PM EDT
I thought the Tavor was suppossed to be a half-way decent weapon. Leagues better then the SA-80. Too bad about Barrett not producing them here. At least then we'd have an alternative to the too-heavy and unblanced M17s Bushmaster rifle. If Bushmaster had half a brain, they would lighten the weapon up with a pencil barrel, shorten the barrel to within 16-18" and work on the ergonomics a little bit. It would sell more.
Link Posted: 8/23/2003 4:25:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By C-4: I am fed-up with taxes, but if the money has to go somewhere, better Israel than AIDS drugs for Africa (what nonsense). BTW, Egypt gets almost as much aid from us as Israel.
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I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or what?
Link Posted: 8/23/2003 5:32:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By XenaduKhan:
Originally Posted By C-4: I am fed-up with taxes, but if the money has to go somewhere, better Israel than AIDS drugs for Africa (what nonsense). BTW, Egypt gets almost as much aid from us as Israel.
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I can't tell if you are being sarcastic or what?
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To clarify: Israel is our only ally in the Middle East. I think that if anyone should get military aid from the U.S., it is Israel (and, no, I'm not Jewish. Not that it should matter anyway). Sometimes I read posts on this site that criticize the 4 billion+ Israel gets in military aid from us, but I think that these same people don't realize that Egypt gets almost as much aid from us as Israel does. The latest ridiculous policy by our government is to subsidize AIDS drugs for Africa. I pay a lot of money for my health insurance and now the government is using my tax dollars to pay for healthcare on another continent. Give me a break! So if I'm going to be taxed, I'd rather have the money go to Israeli bullets killing terrorists than African AIDS patients. I can't explain Horik's post. (Sorry about inadvertantly hijacking this thread.)
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 6:03:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2003 6:05:01 AM EDT by TapperMan]
Seeing how Galils were mentioned, here's a picture from last Wednesday: [center] [img]http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20030820/capt.1061409777.mideast_israel_palestinians_jrl127.jpg[/img] Israeli soldiers stand next to tanks being transported on trucks as they gather in the outskirts of the West Bank town of Ramallah Wednesday Aug. 20, 2003. Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon approved a series of pinpointed military strikes, some of which could begin Wednesday evening, after a suicide bomber killed 20 people and injured scores in downtown Jerusalem Tuesday. ( AP Photo / Nasser Nasser) AP - Aug 20 4:00 PM [/center] Tank units are definitely still using them.
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 10:16:22 AM EDT
Too bad Klinton f'ed up the import laws, I'd love to get my hands on a Israeli A1/M4 upper The Cheat
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 12:22:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Cheat: Too bad Klinton f'ed up the import laws, I'd love to get my hands on a Israeli A1/M4 upper The Cheat
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All Israeli parts are US manufactored for the M16. They are merely modified by unit armorers once they come there. There are 10 billion A1 uppers floating around right now. Buy one and modify it (legally!) yourself.
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 12:36:53 PM EDT
Well, at the risk of taking the thread down a different track I'll ask: Why? What's so great about an A1/M4 upper? And what kind of modification makes it so wonderful? Inquiring minds want to know.
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 1:16:50 PM EDT
Lighter barrel and the 1:12 twist was designed for the M193 ball ammo most people use. Plus, there are so many out there for so cheap, y ou can screw with them and not lose sleep. The A1 was inaccurate because of the shitty sights, not the barrel.
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 1:31:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/25/2003 1:33:15 PM EDT by llanero]
Originally Posted By C-4: [I am fed-up with taxes, but if the money has to go somewhere, better Israel than AIDS drugs for Africa (what nonsense). BTW, Egypt gets almost as much aid from us as Israel.
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Just a quick hijack: Better to spend that money on the nation's inner-city population so we can free them from the hopelessnes of poverty and drug addiction. With education comes hope for a future and with hope comes dignity and honor. With dignity and honor you destroy the culture of crime that plagues the nation's inner-cities. Only when this is accomplished will the nation's murder rate drop and the antigun faction will be disarmed of any and all political weapons they have.
Link Posted: 8/25/2003 1:45:36 PM EDT
Better yet, get rid of the lawyers and accountants.
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