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Posted: 8/19/2003 6:33:33 PM EDT
Web site hasn't been updated in 3 years.. are these guys still in business? Although it's not strictly an AR-15, their LR rifle seems like it would be an interesting toy to have in the collection.

Anyone with any info or personal experience?
Link Posted: 8/19/2003 7:54:35 PM EDT
Yes, they are real. Member "Duffy", among others, has owned one for a while, & has posted some good breakdown photos of the design. The ZM gas system uses the gas tube as a guide rod for the recoil spring, essentially eliminating the AR's rear buffer assy. & allowing a folding stock to be used. Allan Zitta is responsible for the design, but he out-sources the mfg'ing that won't make a production run until sufficient #'s are on order, for obvious economic reasons. This is why waiting periods for ZM products can be long. A long time ago, on a website not too far, far away, there was a proposed group buy for them, but it fizzled out ,most likely because of the need to generate approx. 200 orders to start a production run. Some here have commented that the insufficient ventilation offered by the handguard design won't hold up under sustained FA fire, & that the recoil spring's surrounding proximity to the gas tube & its associated heat will reduce its tension over time. Any ZM owner here will offer you a hands-on review & advice, & some of the member-owners here that have them seem to really love 'em. You'll probably get some 1st-hand feedback soon. Stay tuned.
Link Posted: 8/19/2003 8:12:56 PM EDT
Excellent info, thank you. If anyone has copies of those photos, I'd be very interested in seeing them. FA overheating wont be a problem, since I'll be putting the ZM gear on a semi-only preban receiver. My other question: can I get the 11" version if I file it as an SBR?
Link Posted: 8/19/2003 10:07:42 PM EDT
The overheating problems were mentioned by David Crane, here on the boards. I am skeptical of this, because he said at the time that he was developing a better system.
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 4:21:30 AM EDT
Don't know about their AR's but I bought a single point bungee sling from them & I love it.
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 7:55:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/20/2003 7:55:41 AM EDT by Ridge]
I have and LR-300 11.5 SBR. So far I love it. I already had the lower registered and I found the kit on Gunsamerica.com. So it was just a matter of swapping uppers for me. I think they are pretty rare though. If you order from Allan make sure you have all the SBR paperwork completed and approved. But I think you might find a used one sooner, hard to say, maybe I got lucky (I think the wait is 10 months to a year, or longer refer to Master_Blaster's excellent post) . My observations with the few rounds I've shot so far. Have not experienced any malfunctions. Virtually no muzzle rize and little recoil compared to my old upper. The phantom FH is very effective on the short barrel. Very accurate. Although the gas is still fed back into the bolt, the gun still runs cleaner because the gas tube doesn't discharge into the upper receiver. Mine has feed ramp cuts like the colt M4s. Fun, Fun, Fun to shoot. Things I don't like. It is too heavy with the steel ZM folding stock/battering ram. I like the adjustability of the collapsible stock (I've solved both problems by just putting on a standard stock with a plug, I'm currently looking/saving for an nice lightweight folding stock that I can get to work). To accomidate the spring and larger tube above the receiver the ZM upper had to be raised a little bit. This also raises the sights (It's always nice to have the sights as close to the muzzle as possible). So far it hasn't been a huge issue for me but something to note. It has a nice forward assist that I don't think it needs. Some non standard Parts that might be hard to find. So far I really love this gun. It looks cool, it's accurate, reliable, unique, has a practicle wieght (not too heavy, always wish things are lighter, but it's definately managable) and gets a lot of attention at the range. Even the AK guys like it [:)]. here it is with ZM folding stock. [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/047928.jpg[/img] here it is with the collapsible stock,spacer, and Eotech. [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/049899.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 9:27:12 AM EDT
Outstanding, Ridge! Thanks for taking the time to lay all that out for me. With the original folder on it, how much did it weigh??
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 10:03:24 AM EDT
my brother has one, and has an M16. I think he has run it full auto some. I will check for sure. Other than the full auto, he has always liked his, and thinks it is pretty cool.
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 10:40:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MMcCall: Outstanding, Ridge! Thanks for taking the time to lay all that out for me. With the original folder on it, how much did it weigh??
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I haven't got actual wieghts yet on it. I would guess it was just over 7 lbs. I'm curious myself, but haven't got the chance yet to really get it on a proper scale. I will soon.
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 11:55:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ridge: I haven't got actual wieghts yet on it. I would guess it was just over 7 lbs. I'm curious myself, but haven't got the chance yet to really get it on a proper scale. I will soon.
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That's not too bad.. I plan on running it stock, so that's a decent weight. I'm not one of those folks that takes a 5-pound AR and puts 7 pounds worth of crap on it :)
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 10:49:45 AM EDT
SWEEEEEET!!! Another opportunity to brag about the ZM!!! The last time this happened it went to SIX pages! [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=156879&w=searchPop[/url] My ZM currently configured weighs 10 pounds 2 ounces, give or take an ounce (EMPTY). [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid73/p77dfc92a4fbd9ef8f19f14d1d617a2fa/fb78b693.jpg[/img] I love the ZM, it is really fun to shoot & has awesome “WTF…?” appeal. I agree with RIDGE and MASTER-BLASTER and their very well written posts. I also prefer the VORETEX over the PHANTOM as far as flash-hiders go. More exotic looking, similar performance. My “buddies” in law enforcement point out that it’s compactness with the stock stowed would be a PLUS in the confines of an already packed patrol car. Sticker “SHOCK & AWE” is their normal response from the cost of the weapon system. The only other original complaint that I can offer, is that I totally despise the AR adopted charging handle on the ZM. I think that there should be a forward charging handle similar to a HK G-3. What is the sense of a folding stock if I have to yank a handle out farther than the stowed stock? It is also difficult to charge with the stock folded. How big of a deal is this? Well to me, I see it as a design oversight, but others credit it to “…if it ain’t broke…”. Just my humble (re: “eccentric”) opinion. I do not mean to brag, but I got my ZM upper, stock & NSN ACOG as a package off Ebay for less than $1500. I don’t buy lottery tickets because I won’t get LUCKY again for quite a while… POST # 223!! BONUS!
Link Posted: 9/4/2003 2:01:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/4/2003 2:03:03 PM EDT by NoCompromise]
The bad guys in Swordfish carry these.
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 12:05:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NoCompromise: The bad guys in Swordfish carry these.
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BAD GUYS? Maybe I misunderstood the movie but I thought they were [blue][b]GOOD GUYS[/b][/blue]!! Besides, they had ZM's! OH! You meant: bad ASS guys...I gotcha![;D]
Link Posted: 9/5/2003 12:10:24 PM EDT
Guess I have a reason to see Swordfish. [:)]. Is that the one with Johnny Trav? Aren't they all bad guys in it? If that's the case, that movie probably bumped everybody on they waiting list back another 12 months.
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