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Posted: 8/18/2003 7:15:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2003 10:07:17 AM EDT by Cry_Havoc37]
Most likely this new sniper is some Liberal Democrate staffer working for some anti gun nut who will stop at nothing to get the AWB on the minds of every soccer mom and Pro Ban nut to call their congressman and Senator to back the renewal or worse, a new stiffer ban.

Link Posted: 8/18/2003 10:09:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2003 10:09:58 AM EDT by greco]
It would be cool to get some good press for a change...but think about this scenario... You're riding around with your AR and some loaded mags, and get stoped by some nervous cop....next thing you know, you're behind bars as a sniper suspect, till your lawyer can get you out. What do you tell them, you're on a vigilante hunt, or if you stay cool, that you're on your way to the range.
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 10:43:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Cry_Havoc37: READ: Highly skilled civilian sharpshooter armed with a Military look-alike weapon stops a madman who has been terrorizing West VA neighborhoods... etc etc
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More like: POSSIBLE SNIPER IN CUSTODY- ASSAULT WEAPON SEIZED Suspect's home searched: Arsenal discovered then a few days later... SNIPER SUSPECT RELEASED- WEAPONS KEPT Suspect claimed to be "on watch" for sniper, possible member of Militia group and maybe... FORMER SNIPER SUSPECT "PERSON OF INTEREST" TO FBI Weapons seized were the same kind as used in slayings then of course you have the page 15 retraction... oh, yeah, this guy didn't have anything to do with the sniper shootings
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 10:47:48 AM EDT
well there is always that side to the story now isn't there. :)
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 11:48:55 AM EDT
I was thinking of something more like this: [B][I]Top Story[/I][/B] [I]Responsible citizen upon hearing gunshots nearby grabs his 30 caliber, bolt-action precision rifle from his trunk and neutralizes serial killer from 600 yards while the suspect was fleeing the scene. [/I] or something along those lines [:D]
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 11:54:36 AM EDT
Or better yet, concerned citizen, upon hearing shots fired, runs home, grabs his .50 caliber Barrett BMG, and takes carefull aim and removed the threat from over a mile away with a single shot to the sniper's head. :)
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 12:55:24 PM EDT
or what they think it should read "responsible citizen grabs his cell phone and calls the police half hour later suspect is arrested"
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 1:32:13 PM EDT
Just hope like hell the "sniper" isnt using an AR, or you WILL become the sniper, via the mircle of modern ballistics "science".
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 1:35:06 PM EDT
If you shoot this piece of shit you will go to prision for rest of your life. They are never going to admit that a honest armed citizen used his weapon to stop a criminal. You will be in a hell of a lot more trouble than the sniper if he is caught.
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 1:41:58 PM EDT
Thats a silly statement Cornbread. If a citizen shot a sniper/killer, etc, the press would be all over it. There is not ONE Prosecutor or Judge who would try to convict a citizen who legally stopped a Felon. You also need to remember that there is such a thing as a civilians right to arrest a felon. The press would destroy any prosecutor who tries to get charges filed on anyone with whom the public and the press view as a hero.
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 1:44:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/18/2003 1:46:47 PM EDT by blueshockey]
Here's a citizen shooting an armed suspect... [url]http://www.wral.com/news/2405808/detail.html[/url]
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 3:52:15 PM EDT
Yeah right, go ahead and kill the sniper suspect in vigilante fashion and watch how fast you'll end up in the pokey. If you are not being threatened and fearing for your life, you have no right to use deadly force against anyone, let alone a murder suspect. Do that and you'll be made an example of. I hope you enjoy your stay in the butt pirate ballroom.
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 4:26:51 PM EDT
if you plan on driving around the West Va neighborhoods hit by the sniper with a loaded AR, you are much more likely to be picked up as a suspect.
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 4:29:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HighStrung1: Yeah right, go ahead and kill the sniper suspect in vigilante fashion and watch how fast you'll end up in the pokey. If you are not being threatened and fearing for your life, you have no right to use deadly force against anyone, let alone a murder suspect. Do that and you'll be made an example of. I hope you enjoy your stay in the butt pirate ballroom.
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Really? You KNOW that is what the law says in West Virginia? Many states have laws that do NOT require you to be in fear of YOUR life, just in fear for SOMEONES life. And I thought Florida was one of them by the way. Did they tell you otherwise when you got your gun permit?
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 4:33:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EX11B: if you plan on driving around the West Va neighborhoods hit by the sniper with a loaded AR, you are much more likely to be picked up as a suspect.
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Dont do anything to get pulled over. Don't do anything to give them probable cause to search the vheicle. Keep the AR out of sight. Don't drive a vheicle that matches the description of a vheicle they are looking for. Don't go out of the area in which you live or work-have a reason to be there OTHER than just looking for the sniper.
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 5:15:36 PM EDT
In Florida, we aren't issued gun permits. We can be issued concealed weapon permits though.I don't know West Virginia gun laws. It is not reasonable to use deadly force against a murder suspect. Unless the suspect poses a deadly threat against the permit holder or another person who must be in fear for his life. The decision to act upon these circumstances will always be subject to interpretation by people who were not present at the time of the actual incident. Deciding to use deadly force on someone elses behalf, leaves you in a precarious position. You must be sure that the other person feels that their life is in mortal danger. I would hesitate to make this determination unless I was very familiar with the threatened individual. A family member, coworker, or friend would have to be threatened with death or grievous bodily harm, in order to facilitate me making the decision to kill the assailant.
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 5:28:38 PM EDT
So you are saying that if you happen upon a felony taking place such as a bank robbery where the perps are shooting up the place, and you happen to be there in the bank with your concealed pistol, you won't react and try to save the customers and employees, by carefully waiting for your chance to burn the assailants? Additionally, you are saying that if you are walking or driving down the road and see some crazed asshole shooting up a school, and since you know noone at the school, you would think twice before taking carefull aim propped on the roof of your car at the shooter? You my friend, would be guilty of not lending assistance where you could have perhaps saved some lives, yes, at the risk of your own, but nevertheless, your way of thinking is no better than that of the bad dudes doing the killing/assaulting. We citizens who are authorized to carry a concealed pistol have every right to use deadly force to stop a serious felony in progress. Serious as in some person shooting up the neighborhood. It happens every day. Some armed law abiding citizen goes out of his or her way to help others who are at risk of serious bodily harm.
Link Posted: 8/18/2003 6:19:20 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cry_Havoc37: Thats a silly statement Cornbread. If a citizen shot a sniper/killer, etc, the press would be all over it. There is not ONE Prosecutor or Judge who would try to convict a citizen who legally stopped a Felon. You also need to remember that there is such a thing as a civilians right to arrest a felon. The press would destroy any prosecutor who tries to get charges filed on anyone with whom the public and the press view as a hero.
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You are living in a fantasy land. In reality the press will make you the villian and the sniper will be just an product of our society that could have been hepled IF you had not killed him. People are in jail all over this country and have lost everything they owned and ever will own because of killing a felon. What is right and just means nothing today.
Link Posted: 8/19/2003 9:38:17 AM EDT
------------------------------------------------ originally posted by CRY HAVOC37: You my friend, would be guilty of not lending assistance where you could have perhaps saved some lives, yes, at the risk of your own, but nevertheless, your way of thinking is no better than that of the bad dudes doing the killing/assaulting ----------------------------------------------- First of all, I would be guilty of absolutely nothing. Secondly, can you picture me or any other civilian perched atop the roof of their car aiming an AR15 at a suspect who just shot children at a school? I can see it now, the cops pull up to the scene and they see a guy shooting at a school with an "assault rifle." The cops would immediately engage me as the threat that was reported over the police radio. I am not saying that I would allow a gun crazed suspect to kill innocent people, but the decision to use deadly force should not be entered into lightly. Sorry CRY HAVOC37, that i didn't realize sooner that you must be SUPERMAN.
Link Posted: 8/19/2003 9:49:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/19/2003 9:52:47 AM EDT by Cry_Havoc37]
Oh I wasn't referring to using an AR to take down some school shooter. I was referring basically to someone passing by in a car, walking, etc (not on school grounds as that would be illegal to carry onto school grounds). Like that guy in California that basically started this whole AWB ban. He went into the school yard with an AK and started shooting. If you were driving by, and saw this dude, wouldn't YOU do what you could, other than running and hiding, to stop him from killing kids? its not about being superman, its about being a human being who cares for others more than he cares for himself. Sure, I'd get on the damn cell, and let 911 know what was going down and who I was, etc. Sure the cops would see you armed and freak out. Of course. But again, its all hypothetical. I am saying what if, in any situation/location, at the moment it happened, ie: shots fired by a madman, you happen to be right there, armed with your sidearm (not rifle). WHAT WOULD YOU DO. If I am with my family, of course I see to their safety over all others. However, if I am alone, and run into a situation, whatever it is, that I feel I can do something. I will act accordingly. I am not superman, and I don't know where you get that silly comparison, I am simply not a person who runs when the going gets hot.
Link Posted: 8/19/2003 10:06:03 AM EDT
If the situation allowed me to safely engage the crazed gunman without endangering any children, and if I was the only one there to save innocent people, there is no doubt in my mind that I would kill the motherfucker. That is a lot of ifs. I have had two chances in my life to use deadly force against a person. The first time, the sound of the slide being released on my pistol, coupled with a blinding beam of light shining into the perps eyes, was enough action to cause the perp to leave my home. The perp was my step daughters father. He later thanked me for not killing him. The second time, I refused to use deadly force to save the life of a locally well known gangbanger, who was about to be shot by a rival gangbanger. He survived with only a shoulder wound caused by a .25 caliber pistol.
Link Posted: 8/19/2003 10:57:47 AM EDT
My whole point of this thread basically was what if... And the part about toting a black rifle in search of some copy cat sniper, was offbase, I admit. You are right. The police would shoot first and ask questions later. However, if I were on the scene, alone, and the cops were not yet on the scene, I would have to think about what my actions would be if I were put into that situation. I think most of us would take stock of the situation and act according to our own conscence.
Link Posted: 8/19/2003 12:56:19 PM EDT
my take on it: the press's definition of gun control: "The woman lying dead in the alley, raped and strangled with her panties wrapped around her neck is somehow morally superior to the woman explaining to the police how the attacker got that fatal gunshot wound" (WAGC site- women against gun control. the point is, even if this guy goes off and kills 20 school children, when you put one right through his noggin', in the media's eyes you just sunk to his level. -sucks doesn't it. i doubt there are any of us who wouldn't take the opportunity to stop this guy, but the thoughts of media glory, and hero status, seems a little far-fetched to me. not attacking anybody's views of anything, that's just my take on how one might be percieved after stopping the SOB
Link Posted: 8/20/2003 4:51:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cykho2001: Just hope like hell the "sniper" isnt using an AR, or you WILL become the sniper, via the mircle of modern ballistics "science".
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FNC is using the AK47 to headline the story. So where that leave us?
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 8:40:40 AM EDT
Gee after reading some of these ideas about "What I would do if" and the sniper that may not be a sniper anyway I've got a question or two; 1) If any of you have been in a situation remotely approaching a run in with an armed gunman in a civilian enviroment you'd know you do not sit around and "act according to the situation" and so forth and so on .You react IAW your training , or you panic or lastly if you spend your days plinking in a relaxed or pseudo play warrior enviroment reading various feild manuals in the shade and talking about what you'd show that jade if he showed up in your neck of the woods you screw it uup too . 2) As far as shooting the bastard as he flees the scene from some ludicrous range you haad better be able to explain how you could tell he was an immediate threat to your safety or that of another from that distance. 3) If your going to sniper hunt expect to get stopped.Expect to get treated like a suspect because that is what you are . In the area of a serious crime only a fool is going to equip himself as the suspect and go randomly driving around as though hunting for a target. 4) As far as the police overreacting . I don't feel my screwing my Glock into your ear and pulling your interfering ass through the vent window of your car would be interfering in light of th circumstances .
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 10:01:50 AM EDT
AHHHH. Spoken like a true cop. The high and mighty approach. Just a reminder, cops are highly trained individuals. Thank GOD for them. Cops are excellent at deturring crime. Funny how crimes occur in spite of your presence. Leave it up to the cops, they will save us.
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 11:47:57 AM EDT
Um, Im going to cover my truck in 100mph tactical black tape and run his/her/its sorry ass over. Better yet, I am going to sell my truck and do it in a rice car. Tell the media that the pre-ban muffler made me do it. He was really a terrorist and I am covered under the Patriot Act.
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 3:30:17 PM EDT
And the latest word is that the shootings are Drug related. I’ll let others fill in the blanks here. [peep]
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 3:32:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2003 3:34:03 PM EDT by Cry_Havoc37]
two of the shootings are perhaps drug related, and the caliber of the weapon is supposedly .22 The news did not say .223, just .22 Oh and its possibly a dark colored pickup, possibly maroon in color according to a witness, although it was late at night and the color would be hard to tell. Apparently a cop gave chase but lost the vehicle in traffic or something.
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 3:55:45 PM EDT
Two of the three dead have been linked to trafficking in crystal meth. They are looking in to the third. Unsure now if they have some kind of turf war between meth dealers OR someone got so pissed off about the meth dealing that the LEO's there claim they were "unaware" of and has now turned vigilante.
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