User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 8/19/2003 7:32:41 PM EDT
[#1]
If you do not have everything you need and in your possession when the SHTF, then fahgedaboudit. Just look at the chaos when the power went off in daylight and their was no panic in NYC. Cars were useless, since there were so many pedestrians. You could not get to NJ, much less Venezuala.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/19/2003 11:14:30 PM EDT
[#2]
I'd want an A1 stock on mine. A2 is too long, Collaspables are to noisey, fragile, and uncomfortable.
I also want a chrome lined, light weight 1:7 Brl. either 14.5" or 16" |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/22/2003 9:31:08 AM EDT
[#3]
Well The4thHorseman,
I lived in western Venezuela for two years (Zulia, Tachira, and Trujillo states). Right now Venezuela is only a hop, skip, and a jump away from descending into a Columbia styled revolution. Unemployment is close to 20% and already 60%+ are at poverty or on the borderline. Crime is already astronomical, with muggings/burglery an everyday event in many neighborhoods. If SHTF happens, the economic impact will be global. They say that when the USA market sneezes, Europe gets the flu. Imagine what would happen in Venezuela, who's economy is based on oil exports to other countries...mainly the USA. If the civilization you refer to is established by a local warlard, I can see your scenario as a remote possibility. The women are beautiful, and I can still picture some of the beauties in my head. The bugs, snakes, spiders, etc are terrible though. That's not to mention dissentary (very common unless water is boiled to death), dengue fever, leprousy, and other terrible sicknesses down there. Everybody be sure to pack lots of mosquito repellent and bug netting. Also, Venezuela is not agriculturally self sufficient. They currently import the vast majority of the wheat/bread they eat. In SHTF, you're talking total shock to the venezuelan economy and likely starvation for most. Their food stores are already low. In fact, Chavez's current economic policies have hurt their food supply even more. I love the Venezuelan people and know people there that are dear to me. It's unlikely, however, to be a civilized gathering place in a SHTF scenario. It's much more likely for the caudillo warlord system to return. I doubt caudillos would care to welcome any armed gringos. Probably just shoot us and take our guns. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/22/2003 10:09:35 AM EDT
[#4]
I've been to Venezuela...I think I'll stay here with the dirty bombs...
As for my SHTF rifle....I'll trade mine for a M1A bush rifle...any takers??[;)] |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/22/2003 12:59:25 PM EDT
[#5]
I hate to shoot holes (pun intended) in your scenario, but why not. I think the only thing in reach of your common terrorist that will ‘end the world’, are the launch codes to our or the Russians nuclear weapons or a virus. A bacterial attack could also do it, but, for multiple reasons, this is not as likely as a viral attack – but I better shut up before I begin blathering on about microbiology, which I have a tendency to do (I don’t carry an A.S.M. Visa card in my wallet for nothing). Anyhow, that being the case, the place you really want to be is in Alaska or Upper Canada, since the area is greater, there will be more separation between you and the ‘infected’ populous.
I would have to say the BEST (and what I’m looking into making right now coincidentally) is an AR15 with a shotgun attached underneath. [img]http://www.arniesairsoft.co.uk/projects/scifi/billym16.jpg[/img] In close quarters, with a shotgun attachment underneath, you could use ammunition with a wide dispersal pattern to stun attacker(s), thus hampering their ability to ‘lock on’ and then shift over to your AR15 to finish the job. When you have the luxury of a long-range attack, then forgo the shotgun, and use the rifle to take em’ out. I know very little about guns, so this might be a load of Grade A B.S., so go ahead and shoot my theory down (another pun intended) if you want to. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/22/2003 1:12:10 PM EDT
[#6]
I want the one I can get my hands on the quickest!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/22/2003 2:01:18 PM EDT
[#7]
a nice short colt will do and an m24 one shoot one kill will get it done
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/22/2003 2:22:59 PM EDT
[#8]
One rifle to do it all?
1.Realistically If this is strictly urban environment, M4 style AR15 with 2x Compact ACOG or Aimpoint. If this is for some urban and field, 20" AR15 with 4x ACOG. I would care about a forend (SIR or FF RAS) with lots of airflow since we will be shooting a lot! 2.Ideally M4A1 or M16A4 (with full auto instead of burst) and M203. Overall I would say I'd prefer 1/7 barrel but I would opt for 20" if possible since I don't think it will be easy to get these Mk262s in that quantity. If sticking with M193 or M855, I think 20" is a good choice, unless you are in strictly urban situation. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/22/2003 3:37:52 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Jesus H. fucking Christ, it seems like this thread gets posted at least three times a month. I'll commend the poster for adding in the inexplicable twist of having to travel to Venezuela. However, it's pretty laughable to imagine the armchair militia battling their way to another continent. [ROFL2] It's so true! Also... who would we be trying to kill after this holocaust? Everyone would be in the same shithole and just trying to survive I think. [url]http://www.madmaxmovies.com/archives/Gallery/VidCaps/MadMax2/images/MM2OpeningChase.JPG[/url] Don't know if an AR would be your best choice. The MAD MAX films may have been sci-fi but there were some hidden truths in there. Simple low maintenance weapons, staying fast and mobile, being healthy, killer instinct, and being a little smarter will keep you alive. Just got back from lunch and thought about the above pic. The Directors of those movies kind of thought past the obvious. Have you ever noticed after tornados fires and other disasters that roads are still passable. In a SHTF scenario you would be on the run constantly and need speed. I wouldn't just one AR for survival. While your taking the gun apart you could be ambushed. Your secondary pistol wouldn't do you much good if someone was shooting at you at 100 yards with a rifle or two people jumped you both with shotguns. Downtime is your enemy. Sleep would be hazzardous. Being fast would be your best friend. Fast enough to get out of trouble would be more valuable than a whole bunch of firepower. Even with the most tricked out AR you would have a tough time against 10 or 12 people armed with old deer rifles that well 'weren't hunting deer to eat'. [frag] More tricked out the weapon more spare parts needed = more likelyhood of part breakage = downtime. Lots of ammo = greater weight = reduction in speed = making you a slower moving target. Just like in the movies over time you would find yourself abandoning your more complex weapons for simpler ones either you could find parts for or make yourself. In a SHTF scenario an AR might be OK if your were stationary and had an armory that allowed the downtime for your weapon to be cleaned and maintenanced. If your on the run it would be a bad choice. FYI I own and AR and like it but it does have shortcomings. OK that was my rant time to go back to work. Eventually you WOULD be reduced to this state, yes. In that the diretors were correct. But it would take time. Again, in this scenereo the radiation would get you first before you could have time to wear out your AR if you stayed put. You may indeed wear out your AR trying to get to Venezuela or wherever, but it would get you there. Look at it as being a "use it or lose it" situation. And if I had to be chased by 12 guys with bolt guns, I would much rather have a AR to fend them off with than one of their bolt guns. Venezuela is, intentionally or not, a fairly good choice of a destination in a stuation like this. Because of its fuel production facilities and weak military it is someplace that surviving units of the US military would gravitate to. Even if it was only a temporary destination before moving to someplace more civilized like Austrailia or New Zealand. Its not easy to track down a guy with a rifle who knows how to use it. Example [url]http://gaslight.mtroyal.ca/htracy.htm[/url] |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/23/2003 1:45:34 PM EDT
[#10]
Can you say "Red Dawn"?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/23/2003 2:01:58 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: I would have to say the BEST (and what I’m looking into making right now coincidentally) is an AR15 with a shotgun attached underneath. It may look cool in the movies, but it is a terrible idea IRL. While underbarrel shotguns like this are used by certain groups, the shotgun is used with slugs for blowing the hinges and locks out of doors. The ahotgun trigger is awkward to get to, the shotgun doesn't point well and all that weight out front makes the weapon much slower for CQB than either a shotgun or an AR. For CQB work you'll be much better served by a short, light, quick-handling weapon, whether a shotgun or a carbine, than you would by something as heavy as the above combo. And for anything further out the AR is the better choice anyway. I won't even go into how bulky and heavy shotgun ammo is, or the fact that the underbarrel shotgun stuff is expensive because of the licensing required. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/6/2003 9:52:18 PM EDT
[#12]
hmm havta go right past the Ar and get the FN para out wifey gets to carry the M4gery and the boy the standard colt and the dogs will haul the ammo. might as well arm a few friends while Im at it and go platoon strenght. :)
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/6/2003 10:38:34 PM EDT
[#13]
Which AR would I choose? The same one I carried for 8 years in the Infantry. My A2 with iron sights may not be the latest and greatest, but it is the one that is the most instinctive for me, the one I can shoot and buttstroke with without having to think about it.
In the end, the best weapon is the one you are the most comfortable with. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/7/2003 1:06:17 AM EDT
[#14]
If it's a nuke = I plan to die since I live 10miles (as the crow fly's) from Offutt AFB.
Dirty bombs are another story. because the size is the issue most of our lives in the US wouldn't change much, the terrorists might get 1 or 2 into the us but dirty bombs are not that effective and only reach so far. It would take 1000's of huge ones to devisate the whole US. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/7/2003 1:15:26 AM EDT
[#15]
Actually Desertmoon Venezuela is a very beautiful country not a Shithole, especially if you love beautiful country/Jungle and excellelent Fishing for Blue Marlin or Sword fish and the Women are among the most beautiful in the World.
Now having said that, Your Battery powered electric sights and Gadgets will not last in a humid Jungle environment even a acog, if you have ever been in a real Jungle you know that such contraptions wont last . Same go For Leather belts/Boots/knife scabards , carry nothing with leather, it will Rot off you in 2 Days, The Battery Contacs in your Acog Will Corrode in a day. Those of you who went to Jungle Warfare school in Panama in the 70's will recall all what i'm saying. Iron Sights survived for 200 years for a reason , it Works all the time and its reliable and tough. Those electronic Sights are Great at the range or for Swat teams takedowns But please dont take them to the Jungle. It will break your Heart. |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/7/2003 1:23:28 AM EDT
[#16]
I'd pick this one...
[img]http://members.cox.net/littlejacek/MoreCQBthanYours.jpg[/img] |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/7/2003 3:17:54 AM EDT
[#17]
When someone puts up a topic like this I try and answer using the guidlines they mention. He says your packed and have your essentials and what gun with accessories would you want. First thing is the gun and I would take my Bushmaster Modular model. According to the Ammo Oracle a 16" barrels round is at 2700fps (which is the lowest speed to reliably fragment)out to 140-150 yards where as a 14 1/2" barrel is 90-100. Anything shorter won't give you enough velocity to be good at a decent range. If you are going to go from the U.S. all of the way to Venezuela you might need to take shots at range. That would rule out shotguns or very short rifles. A 16" will be lighter and easier to manuver in close quarters situations. Chrome lined barrel so their is less cleaning and faster cleaning when needed. As far as accessories go, lots of mags and an easy way to carry the loaded mags. An ACOG scope with 3x or more. Their might be times you need to take a shot at a range that will be hard to see without magnification. Of course back up iron sights are a must. A spare parts kit, cleaning kit and tools to get a jammed round out of the rifle and tools that might be needed to fix a rifle or magazines. The other thing that I see only a couple of people mention is night vision. Half of the time on the way to Venezuela would be night. Under the situation mentioned their won't be well lit smooth paved american roads all the way south. So good night vision goggles, night vision sight and a good light both on the rifle (a very light one) and a large flood light to illuminate a large area if needed.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/7/2003 4:23:32 AM EDT
[#18]
I'd take the AR that I've got now, Standard A2 w/stainless fluted bbl. and chrome bolt/carrier. It's accurate, weather proof and is still light enough to carry. I'd use the 2.5x32 scope on it so I'd be good to go from close or out to 400 yards. I'd also make room for my Austin & Halleck Flint Mt. rifle so when the AR ammo ran out I could whip up some black powder, balls and a good sharp rock(flint, of course) and still be able to shoot. For a long term SHTF gun you just can't beat a good flint lock. Also, I'd agree with Killbot, go North young man, go North. Less bugs and stuff to deal with. Larger game to kill and eat. More timber to build a log cabin out of.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/7/2003 11:52:04 AM EDT
[#19]
If you want to see a good (if improbable) example of a SHTF scenario and why a weapon would be essential, go rent "28 days later" it's at Blockbuster now, not a bad movie, like a british version of Dawn of the Dead.
No ARs but lots of SA80s and a couple of FN Mags in action. It will get you thinking about what you might need in SHTF....plus an enjoyable flick. WARNING: Not for the kids, profanity, nudity, extreme violence, wanton firing of firearms..... |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/7/2003 9:55:33 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: The Battery Contacs in your Acog Will Corrode in a day. [LOLabove][ROFL2][LOLabove] |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/8/2003 6:01:03 AM EDT
[#21]
Thank you!
As a relative newcomer, I was a bit hesitant to be too critical of this topic, but... Jesus! You guys have spent so much time with your fantasy scenario that you've developed an acronym for it? (SHTF) I mean, Jesus! Do you WANT the shit to hit the fan? WHY? |
|
|
|
Posted: 11/8/2003 6:26:50 AM EDT
[#22]
Colt 20' A2, USP45 and all the ammo & food I can pack!--ha ha
|
|
|
|
Posted: 11/8/2003 7:08:59 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Thank you! As a relative newcomer, I was a bit hesitant to be too critical of this topic, but... Jesus! You guys have spent so much time with your fantasy scenario that you've developed an acronym for it? (SHTF) I mean, Jesus! Do you WANT the shit to hit the fan? WHY? If you lived in affected parts of Los Angeles During the riots where anarchy and lawlessness ruled for several days, you might think differently. The breakdown of law and order in society can happen - if only temporarily - and you and your family should have a contingent plan for protecting yourself against opportunistic looters and criminals who will come out of the woodwork during such times. I know I would be better off having thought about it, and never having it happen, than to have it happen without having thought about it. Why do you keep a spare tire and jack in your car? Does the fact that you are prepared for the flat tire mean you want a blowout? I think not. I don't think any of us want such events to occur, I certainly don't. but with some forethought and discussion, being prepared for such events becomes somewhat easier. And by the way, the term "when the Sh*t Hits The Fan" (SHTF) has been around much longer than I have, no one on this board "developed" the term. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
