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Posted: 8/4/2003 11:14:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2003 11:20:42 PM EDT by Lockedon]
I'm thinking about registering one of my lowers as full auto. I want to keep it 100% legal. How do i do that?

Is it true that with registered lowers, you can put on any type of upper? (preban or postban). For example, put a collapisble stock, f/s baynet lug etc on my post-ban lower?....also can one have short barrels such as 14.5" or 11"? Anything else?

Thanks everyone.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 11:47:40 PM EDT
You can't register any old lower as a full auto.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 12:25:30 AM EDT
What you want is a RDIAS or a RLL. You can't make your onw machinegun anymore. Haven't been able to for quite some time. You can buy an already registered one though... You're looking at $5,000-$10,000 for full auto...depending on the method. IF you wanna play, you gotta pay.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 3:46:24 AM EDT
Ask the guys over at full auto, im too tired to explain it. lol
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 4:18:12 AM EDT
Read the NFA FAQ on the full auto forum. Short answer = No, you cant register your lower as a machinegun. You must buy one already registered, or a registered conversion device.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 5:17:56 AM EDT
Get ready to pay through the ying-yang.[b]it ain't gona be cheep[/b]
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 5:34:47 AM EDT
You need to buy a registered device, like a DIAS or LL, and put that in your lower. You can put it in a pre-ban lower or post-ban. Once you put it in, the rifle becomes subject to the NFA, not the AWB, and you can put any evil features on that you want. Of course, if you put it in a post-ban and then later take it out, the rifle loses the AWB exemption and it can't have more than two evil features.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 8:48:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Lockedon: I'm thinking about registering one of my lowers as full auto. I want to keep it 100% legal. How do i do that?
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You can try, but BATF will return your FORM 1 unapproved. If you want an MG, you need to buy one that was already registered prior to 5/19/86.
Is it true that with registered lowers, you can put on any type of upper? (preban or postban). For example, put a collapisble stock, f/s baynet lug etc on my post-ban lower?....also can one have short barrels such as 14.5" or 11"? Anything else? Thanks everyone.
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Yes, generally speaking, MGs exempt from the SBR and AW requirements.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 9:23:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By eswanson: You need to buy a registered device, like a DIAS or LL, and put that in your lower...
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Drop In Auto Sears and Lightning Links right? Will either one of those will let you select between Auto and Semi? Thats what i'm looking for. Also, I recall hearing some bad things about LL....are either one of those true full auto?
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 9:35:05 AM EDT
LL and RDIAS are all true controlled FA devices. RDIAS will allow you to select between semi and FA, RDIAS is like a auto sear in a MG, only difference is the RDIAS is on a block which drop into the empty slot in the rear of your lower receiver and the MG auto sear is drilled throught the lower receiver and the sear itself is pin into the holes. The LL will not be select fire, it is full auto only but controlled full auto. I do however hear someone making a trigger package or something like it which will allow the LL to work. I have not used the LL but but you might have to modify your carrier depending on the manufature.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 9:37:44 AM EDT
Too much hassle the AR shoots fast enough,full auto,if you were to invest in some type of light machine gun and could get one cheap it would be worth it Even an SBR isnt worth it for the $200 tax every year to have it 3/8 of an inch shorter than what you can have for pre ban. keep it simple get a preban then get a 14.5 barrel with permanently attached phantom and its only half inch longer than a standard M4,$10,000 for a registered full auto you could by 6 or 7 preban bushmasters for that money and have a nice collection ive seen pre 86 dealer samples of the M249 for $50,000+ unless you have the bucks stick with pre ban semi auto its the closest you will get without the giant price tag.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 9:46:31 AM EDT
Originally Posted By model927: Even an SBR isnt worth it for the [red]$200 tax every year[/red] to have it 3/8 of an inch shorter than what you can have for pre ban.
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Er [?] The $200 tax is a ONE TIME "transfer" tax. You don't pay it every year. You only pay it when it transfers ownership.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 12:18:33 PM EDT
Drop In Auto Sears and Lightning Links right? Will either one of those will let you select between Auto and Semi? Thats what i'm looking for. Also, I recall hearing some bad things about LL....are either one of those true full auto?
View Quote
A wealth of details about this is available in the full auto forum, but the quick rundown: RDIAS = Registered Drop In Auto Sear. Performs the same function as a factory M16 sear, but is moveable between lowers. This is used with M16 fire control parts to give Safe/Semi/Full or Burst (depending upon fire control parts installed). There is a 4-position fire control kit also (Safe/Semi/Full/Burst), but most folks who have used it dont seem to like it. RLL = Registered Lightning Link. A device used with semi-auto fire control parts to give Safe/Full only operation. There is a parts kit available using modified M16 components which gives Safe/Semi/Full operation. Some things to keep in mind: 1. The "R" in RDIAS or RLL is very important. Dont be tempted to explore the Shotgun News ads for the $300 "pre-81" sears. For additonal details hang out a while in the full auto forum, this topic comes up regularly. 2. Bring a lot of cash. Seriously. I dont own any of these toys yet, and I may never be able to. Hell, both of my automobiles together cost less than some of these toys. 3. If you are serious, dont wait too long to buy something if it becomes available. You can watch the price on these parts climb hundreds of dollars a month while waiting on a better deal.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 4:33:33 PM EDT
To GLOFTOE even at just a 1 time fee I would rather go with slightly longer than have to pay the tax,register it and have a government entity know what I own,I will keep it preban and no headaches,once you cross the class 3 threshhold ATF can come in any time unanounced to see what you have to see if its properly stored,I beleive having proper storage is a criteria for owning machine guns and SBRs dont matter because they are in the same class. to much invasion of privacy for 3/8 of an inch.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 5:07:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2003 5:09:08 PM EDT by faldoc]
[b]once you cross the class 3 threshhold ATF can come in any time unanounced to see what you have to see if its properly stored[/b] Sorry, this is wrong. They cannot willy-nilly check up on you at any time in your house to see if your NFA firearm is stored properly. Just because you have a registered NFA firearm doesn't mean you have no rights. They can ask to see a NFA firearm or your paperwork, but you have the right to choose where: like their offices. They have no right to come into your house anymore than they can do it for any gun unless you are the suspect in a crime or are under criminal investigation. If you have a FFL and you are an SOT (a class 3 dealer) then they can make unannounced visits once a year at your place of business. If you do no business at your home and store no guns related to the business at your home they cannot come into your home. One other thing: proper storage has nothing to do with owning machine guns as a matter of law, but it does make a lot of sense for any gun owner. Before spewing mis-information check up on your facts.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 6:31:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2003 6:41:45 PM EDT by model927]
Youre right I got things a little mixed up thats only if you are a dealer,still they know what you have and thats enough for me to be content not to have my rifle 3/8 of an inch shorter,pay a large tax and have to be registered,Im happy with semi-auto.And pointing out a mistake is fine Im not spewing misinformation so get OFF THE RAG and get pissy with someone else I doubt you know it all and it was wrong information pertaining to private ownership,it does apply to dealers so the info was a bit misplaced MISINFORMATION would mean what I said has no truth to it and it does,just not to private ownership,so I should get the facts right just like you should think before you talk,Im an adult not a child.Also laws vary from state to state where I am from dealer or owner you must store the weapon in an area that is securely locked that is a pre requisite that you have to show you have before you can even apply and the best you can do where I am is a license for curios and relics if your a collector if not they wont give your application a second look,they dont do a license for a SBR unless your law enforcement and even at that its usualy a swat team member so no matter the federal law you still have to go by where you live.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 10:03:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2003 10:06:14 PM EDT by Lockedon]
Hey, thanks everyone you've all been of wonderful help! Registered Drop In Auto Sear.... i like the sound of that! How much do those things run for usually? Where on earth can you find one? (legally) Also i've seen ads for plans to make your own LL. Can a person make one and register it for legality? Do you think it'd be just easier/cheaper to register one of my post-bans as a short-barreled rifle? Would i be able to still get pre-ban features mounted on it? Thanks.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 10:43:18 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 12:48:39 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Lockedon: Hey, thanks everyone you've all been of wonderful help! Registered Drop In Auto Sear.... i like the sound of that! How much do those things run for usually? Where on earth can you find one? (legally) Also i've seen ads for plans to make your own LL. Can a person make one and register it for legality? Do you think it'd be just easier/cheaper to register one of my post-bans as a short-barreled rifle? Would i be able to still get pre-ban features mounted on it? Thanks.
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To get a RDIAS or RLou have to get in contact with a Class 3 dealer. Go to the Full Auto forums in this section and ask about it. Troy's prices are right on, though if you shop around, you can find them for a little less. Just don't shop too long as the prices rise pretty quickly. No, you cannot make new lightning links legally. They are considered machine guns by themselves and have to have been registered back in '86 just like all machine guns and drop in auto sears. Anything not registered when the '86 ban was enacted is not legal. No new full auto receivers or devices for individual civilian use whatsoever. A short barreled rifle is still bound by the AWB even though it is registered. You still can't put any banned features on them. Sorry for all the negative answers. The laws in effect now pretty much restrict just about everything you could do with an AR. Registered receivers, registered auto sears, and registered lightning links are expensive, very expensive, and the prices are rising every day due to the finite numbers of them on the market. If all you want is a flash suppressor and a collapsible stock, just get a preban, it will be a lot cheaper. Prices for prebans are pretty good right now because it is so close to the sunset. If you are a patient person, just wait until next September. Flash suppressors, collapsible stocks, and bayonet lugs will be legal again. How long that will last is another matter.
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 5:45:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2003 5:50:30 AM EDT by rxdawg]
Hey, thanks everyone you've all been of wonderful help! Registered Drop In Auto Sear.... i like the sound of that! How much do those things run for usually? Where on earth can you find one? (legally) Also i've seen ads for plans to make your own LL. Can a person make one and register it for legality? Do you think it'd be just easier/cheaper to register one of my post-bans as a short-barreled rifle? Would i be able to still get pre-ban features mounted on it? Thanks.
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No, you cannot make a new DIAS or LL and register it, or drill your lower for an autosear and register it. That is why these parts are so expensive, the only ones which can be posessed by civilians were registered before the 1986 cutoff. A lot of people wish you could, myself included. No, you cannot put preban features on a postban SBR. Even though it is registered as a SBR it is still semiautomatic, and the AW ban applies to semiautomatic weapons. I have been thinking about building a SBR myself, but will probably wait until I know whether or not the ban will be renewed. Some sites of interest: [url]www.subguns.com[/url] [url]www.titleii.com[/url] Edit to add: If you register a Preban rifle as a SBR, you can add all the EBR features you want.
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 7:29:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2003 7:32:21 AM EDT by Lockedon]
Well then, this will be just a touch out of my budget range hehehe [>Q][>(][>Q][>(][>Q][>(][>Q][>(][>Q]...I could buy six new ARs and a crotch-rocket for that much. But at least i learned alot form this, so [b]thanks to everyone who answered me.[/b] I think i might stick with knightone's advice and just get a preban. I might get an M16 reciever or an RDIAS or RLL somday down the road when i have the money to blow, but i'm sure that the price would have reached new levels of insanity by that time....damn liberals!!!
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 7:55:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Lockedon: Registered Drop In Auto Sear.... i like the sound of that! How much do those things run for usually?
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An LL went for $5300 on subguns or sturmgewehr this week. A dealer in South Texas is asking $4900 for another. I do not see many DIAS for sale, ala carte. Most are with gun, again, search subguns or sturmgewehr and see prices are in $7500 for DIAS+Gun and climbing.
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