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Posted: 8/4/2003 3:56:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2003 8:27:53 AM EDT by SpentShellz]
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 4:02:05 PM EDT
Where's the pic of the SEARCH button when you need it? [;)]
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 4:06:59 PM EDT
this thread has been done more times than madonna.....just in the past 2 weeks [:O]
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 4:34:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2003 5:00:43 PM EDT by Lumpy196]
Somethings wrong with the gun in that picture...hmmmm I'll keep my thoughts [):)]
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 5:05:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lumpy196: Somethings wrong with the gun in that picture...hmmmm I'll keep my thoughts [):)]
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Noticed it too. Someone want to ask?
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 5:12:05 PM EDT
I'll play. This is my personal M4. [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/054109.jpg[/img] This is my work M4 that has my TA-11 on it now. [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/054108.jpg[/img] This is my latest build. IT HAS M4 FEED RAMPS!! [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/054107.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 5:12:30 PM EDT
adjustable stock on a post-ban right!!!! come on guys say it together that's a no-no
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 5:22:35 PM EDT
I was thinking of something a little more subtle, like an email or an IM preferrably by a mod.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 5:29:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By knightone: I was thinking of something a little more subtle, like an email or an IM preferrably by a mod.
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That would be the preferrred method.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 5:29:18 PM EDT
Sorry, knightone.... you are right.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 5:29:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2003 5:33:13 PM EDT by Lumpy196]
I'll save Spooge's fledgling reputation since he learned the error of his ways [):)] Ive already IM'd Spent
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 5:30:21 PM EDT
Move along, nothing to see here.....
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 5:32:21 PM EDT
You might want to be aware as a newbie that its the official policy of this board to NOT encourage the violation of existing gun laws. _____________________________________________ Newbie to what?
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 5:33:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2003 5:40:24 PM EDT by IronBalaclava]
Originally Posted By knightone:
Originally Posted By Lumpy196: Somethings wrong with the gun in that picture...hmmmm I'll keep my thoughts [):)]
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Noticed it too. Someone want to ask?
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I see it. Bad Move. Edited to add: Not to knitpick but an "M4A1" is a fully automatic M4 designation.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 5:34:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Spooge5150: You might want to be aware as a newbie that its the official policy of this board to NOT encourage the violation of existing gun laws. _____________________________________________ Newbie to what?
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The board....chill
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 5:38:51 PM EDT
Lumpy196 No offense, just don't assume you know how much I know, or don't know, based on the number of posts I have on this board. Sorry for my original post, quick reaction. I'll drink another beer now. [beer]
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 5:41:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2003 5:43:30 PM EDT by Lumpy196]
I made no assumptions about your knowledge and your post number means nothing in particular. I was looking at June 03. There are some people that have forgot more than I know that have been here for years and arent past 100 posts. So once again, CHILL
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 5:43:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2003 5:45:45 PM EDT by Spooge5150]
Ummm dude, I am CHILLED. Not mad one bit. I love you man. You have had many wonderful posts that I have learned alot from. P.S. You live in a beautiful state, especially at sunset.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 5:52:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2003 5:56:13 PM EDT by Lumpy196]
Then we're g2g [beer] And thank you for the kind words.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 6:04:11 PM EDT
You know it bro!
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 6:09:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2003 6:11:19 PM EDT by FrankSquid]
SpentShellz, a few members are concerned that your rifle is a "post-pan" with "pre-ban" features. Your rifle appears to be brand new and pre-bans had to be built before Sept of 1994. We can not see your serial number so we are assuming that the rifle is post ban. A semiautomatic rifle manufactured after Sept 1994 can only have TWO specific or "evil" features as we like to call them. Since an AR15 has a detachable magazine and a pistol grip, the feature that needs to be removed is the telescoping stock. Again, we only assume that your rifle is a post ban. (B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of - (i) a folding or telescoping stock; (ii)a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; (iii)a bayonet mount; (iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and (v) a grenade launcher; SOURCE [url]http://www.awbansunset.com/whatis.html[/url]
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 6:42:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2003 6:43:14 PM EDT by NoCompromise]
Maybe just maybe, he's LE and just preffers brakes over Flash suppressors, and finds the bayonet lug useless for his job. or he had the preban lower and got the upper for real cheap... or.. something like that.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 6:50:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By NoCompromise: Maybe just maybe, he's LE and just preffers brakes over Flash suppressors, and finds the bayonet lug useless for his job. or he had the preban lower and got the upper for real cheap... or.. something like that.
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Thats very possible but we just want to be sure. Hate to have someone get in trouble for something that they didn't even know about!
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 7:53:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2003 7:59:30 PM EDT by SpentShellz]
SETTLE DOWN SETTLE DOWN the colapsable stock was for the shots only . i thought i would make good of taking the pics of a M4 by making it a true M4 if ya know what i mean..... why give me such a hard time over one little thing . thanks luckystiff for being cool with your posts and picks .i dont know why i get such a hard time from some people here... the missing bayolug is no big deal to me it had been removed alredy when i purchased it besides who would put a bayonet on thier M4 ....i guess i should have for some more grieff ..
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 9:02:00 PM EDT
I have a postban upper on my preban lower with a collapsable stock. Eventually I would like to get my ideal upper, but for now, I just like having a reliable 16" flattop.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 9:18:58 PM EDT
Run! Hide! [:O] The ATF is watching! [img]http://www.boomspeed.com/kisara/KisaraVMatch16.jpg[/img] New post-ban upper on a very pre-ban lower. 100% legal, even here in the PRK. Don't forget we have several members from Canada and elsewhere too, where 1994 happily doesn't apply.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 9:38:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2003 9:46:16 PM EDT by captainpooby]
Originally Posted By Kisara: Run! Hide! [:O] The ATF is watching! [url]http://www.boomspeed.com/kisara/KisaraVMatch16.jpg[/url] New post-ban upper on a very pre-ban lower. 100% legal, even here in the PRK. Don't forget we have several members from Canada and elsewhere too, where 1994 happily doesn't apply.
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A post ban upper is legal on a pre-ban lower anywhere. Just for informational purposes, if you install a collapsable stock on a post ban weapon you have just manufactured an "illegal asault weapon". Then you posted a pic on the internet and admitted it. If they want you, they have you. Dumb move. Not a flame, you just f%%ked up big time. Another piece of advice to you new guys. ALL the alphabet agencies surf this board. Sometimes they even post.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 9:43:23 PM EDT
Some of my best pics involve food. [:P] [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=12716[/img]
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 10:08:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SpentShellz: SETTLE DOWN SETTLE DOWN the colapsable stock was for the shots only . i thought i would make good of taking the pics of a M4 by making it a true M4 if ya know what i mean..... why give me such a hard time over one little thing . thanks luckystiff for being cool with your posts and picks .i dont know why i get such a hard time from some people here... the missing bayolug is no big deal to me it had been removed alredy when i purchased it besides who would put a bayonet on thier M4 ....i guess i should have for some more grieff ..
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dude no one made a big deal out of it, i think they were pretty cool about it, more out of concern for you that you may have unknowlingly turned your M4 into something illegal... no one called the cops or flamed you, you did after all post the pictures yourself... especially with the awb ban deal coming up its just a generally bad idea to advertise evil features on a post ban... i dont think you slapping a collapsable on your post ban makes you any more of a hardened criminal than the rest of us but you could have gotten a much much worse reaction so dont get upset at anyone
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 10:12:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2003 10:12:18 PM EDT by dellasol]
oh and i forgot [IMG]http://www.digitalpose.com/mbr/1/22109/p/355592_8622945371161357562_vl.jpg[/IMG]
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 10:38:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Originally Posted By Kisara: Run! Hide! [:O] The ATF is watching! [url]http://www.boomspeed.com/kisara/KisaraVMatch16.jpg[/url] New post-ban upper on a very pre-ban lower. 100% legal, even here in the PRK. Don't forget we have several members from Canada and elsewhere too, where 1994 happily doesn't apply.
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A post ban upper is legal on a pre-ban lower anywhere. Just for informational purposes, if [red]you[/red] install a collapsable stock on a post ban weapon [red]you[/red] have just manufactured an "illegal asault weapon". Then [red]you[/red] posted a pic on the internet and admitted it. If they want [red]you[/red], they have [red]you[/red]. Dumb move. Not a flame, [red]you[/red] just f%%ked up big time. Another piece of advice to [red]you[/red] new guys. ALL the alphabet agencies surf this board. Sometimes they even post.
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Just to clarify, you are talking to SpentShellz, not Kisara, right? Kisara posted nothing illegal.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 11:06:07 PM EDT
I'm just trying to say that you can't assume the weapon in a photo is post ban just because a post ban upper is on it. Some brands (or markings, like "Colt Match") would be obvious. But if he didn't admit it was post, I can't tell from his photo.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 5:31:54 AM EDT
With the purple Bushie lower I assume it's preban. If it's not busting him out in public is tres uncool.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 6:37:57 AM EDT
Anyway.... You asked, so here ya go: [img]http://photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?sAccountUnq=19372&iGalleryUnq=574&iImageUnq=11178[/img]
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 8:17:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By captainpooby: A post ban upper is legal on a pre-ban lower anywhere. Just for informational purposes, if you install a collapsible stock on a post ban weapon you have just manufactured an "illegal assault weapon". Then you posted a pic on the internet and admitted it. If they want you, they have you. Dumb move. Not a flame, you just f%%ked up big time. Another piece of advice to you new guys. ALL the alphabet agencies surf this board. Sometimes they even post.
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I am under the impression as long as the stock is permanently fixed to one position, it is post ban compliant. There was a post by a fellow member who scanned the letter sent to him from the BATFE, stating the legality of permanently fixed collapsibles on post bans. As long a they are fixed like a neutered dog, very thing is fine.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 9:50:02 AM EDT
OOPS the post ban police have arrived. Those evil bastards. Why are they so mean! The horror! Nothing will ever be the same again here come the JBT's killin and kickin in doors. laying waste to our way of life.....
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 11:08:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 223Rem: I am under the impression as long as the stock is permanently fixed to one position, it is post ban compliant.
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I am under the impression that as long as the stock is permanently fixed to one position, it is no longer a collapsible stock, thereby rendering the crux of this discussion moot.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 11:27:50 AM EDT
Correcto! And it must be pinned extended!
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 12:04:16 PM EDT
If it's pinned it's OK. Not so much the length. Rock River does sell the stubby entry stock legally.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 4:50:36 PM EDT
I was under the impression that pinning wasnt good enough, that it is required to be perminently modified so that it can not function as a collapsable ever again. I could be wrong. I dont think the ATF even knows.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 5:12:57 PM EDT
This issue continues to confuse me. You can't have a telescoping stock yet you can have a stubby with an adjustable buttplate. I know they don't work exactly the same but the resultant mechanical change in stock length seems to me to be the same. That being said I will soon be fitting an adjustable buttplate to an ARFX-E. The stock will have an adjustable (only by tools) length of pull allowing the best of both worlds. Disclaimer: I don't think this violates any laws since there are many adjustable stocks out there in similar configuration. Just look at the BR comp rifles...and the stubbies. If it does someone please clue me in. Those buttplates are pricy! Wouldn't want to waste the cash let alone be in violation of the law.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 11:04:07 PM EDT
[img]http://photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?sAccountUnq=12467&iGalleryUnq=934&iImageUnq=15728[/img] OK, last [b]real[/b] word I heard from ATF was that in order to be legal a "fixed collapsible" could never have been a collapsible. At OAI they had to use stocks that weren't drilled for the latch pin and lower receiver extensions that were not milled for the latch pin in order for ATF to accept them. The stocks were held on with blind roll pins and some kind of JB Weld liquid steel concoction. Secondly, although often added to the list of "bad features", the detachable mag is actually what qualifies a semi automatic rifle for further scrutiny under the AWB. Fixed mag rifles need not apply. To be post ban legal the key phrase is [b]no more than one[/b] contraband feature. The pistol grip is the easiest one to keep when dealing with post ban ARs. It's one contraband feature, not two, that is allowed. Point of interest, the ATF considers the A1 flash suppressor and the A2 compensator to be grenade launchers due to their STANAG 22mm OD. OAI ran into that snag while designing the first post ban barrels. They first turned the muzzle down to 1/2" diameter for a length of about 1.5". They then drilled the threads out of the standard flash suppressor, slipped them over the turned down muzzles, and pinned them in place. ATF rejected the design on the grounds that the barrels could still launch grenades. That was another week of my life wasted.
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 4:52:55 AM EDT
Originally Posted By rocketman223: This issue continues to confuse me. You can't have a telescoping stock yet you can have a stubby with an adjustable buttplate. I know they don't work exactly the same but the resultant mechanical change in stock length seems to me to be the same. That being said I will soon be fitting an adjustable buttplate to an ARFX-E. The stock will have an adjustable (only by tools) length of pull allowing the best of both worlds. Disclaimer: I don't think this violates any laws since there are many adjustable stocks out there in similar configuration. Just look at the BR comp rifles...and the stubbies. If it does someone please clue me in. Those buttplates are pricy! Wouldn't want to waste the cash let alone be in violation of the law.
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I have done some research on adjustable buttplates. I've contacted the manufacturer of one of them, and they would not respond. I spoke to the manufacturer of another popular aftermarket stock who attempted to get his stock pushed through the ATF as post-ban approved, and was denied. When I asked him about the extension buttpads, he indicated that like his stock, it could be extended and retracted, but required tools. His was denied. I asked how the extendable butt plate stock got post-ban legal designation, and his response was that they never asked, there is no letter from the ATF allowing it. The manufacturers of these may be making an assumption about their legality which will not protect you if the ATF determines it is what they want to prosecute based on, because I have yet to find a letter in anyone's possession that calls out the extension butt plates as legal. Anyone who has gotten their hardware post-ban approved will have a letter available to prove it. If staying legal important to you, ask for it. YMMV. I'm personally staying away, and found that having MORE ARs, some with stubbies and some with full length stocks, is even MORE fun than an adjustable. ;) -Dan
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 9:02:44 AM EDT
To bad some one dosent make a car stock thats permanently pinned in the 1st posistion of a 4 posistion type it would be a little longer than a stubby and more comfortble.
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 9:35:57 AM EDT
Does anyone know the exact reason that a collapsable stock is supposed to be so bad? I have a M-4gery with a RRA entry stock on it and I can't think of anything that a four position could do that would be more evil than it.
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 2:43:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2003 2:44:04 PM EDT by dellasol]
i guess you could theoretically sneak it under a smaller trench coat if it is collapsed, but thats nothing a glock or tech 9 can't do so i see it as kind of stupid... i can understand not allowing every single one of us to go out and buy a full auto weapon with a 100 round drum, and i could understand not allowing an adjustable stock IF handguns and stuff like that were illegal, but until a ar15 w/ collapsable stock becomes the most compact fire arm available i see it as doing nothing more than inconveinancing the would be killer into buying a different more conceilable weapon, oh wait, if they are gonna kill people then i doubt they would feel much guilt in buying a collapsable stock on ebay and slapping it on they're post ban... ah the government
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 5:06:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SpentShellz: SETTLE DOWN SETTLE DOWN the colapsable stock was for the shots only . i thought i would make good of taking the pics of a M4 by making it a true M4 if ya know what i mean..... why give me such a hard time over one little thing . thanks luckystiff for being cool with your posts and picks .i dont know why i get such a hard time from some people here... the missing bayolug is no big deal to me it had been removed alredy when i purchased it besides who would put a bayonet on thier M4 ....i guess i should have for some more grieff ..
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They are just trying to save you HARD TIME from BATF. BATF doesn't consider it such a little thing as to let you slide, they can sink you over just a little thing. It just like a short barrelled shotgun. It's only a $5 tax stamp if it has never had a stock mounted to it - just a pistol grip. If a stock is mounted to it, even for a split second (such a little thing), boom, it's now a $200 or jail time if they can prove it, and one picture is all it can take. There is no little thing or fooling around with those people, they live in a different world altogether. Best wishes, no flame intended, just revelation. Everyone is just looking out for you and others lest BATF come down on anyone.
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 5:28:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2003 5:30:49 PM EDT by model927]
To TWEAK that rifle is cool with the short triangular hand gaurds with an 11.5 barrel and a 5.5 permanently attached supressor or was it 3 prong? you could change to a stubby stock and make it look like the first CAR15 only the small stubby stock on that one was telescoping,with a stubby it would just look collapsed,a couple of more of those and a robinson M96"stoner 63" rifle with 3 more buddies you would look armed like a seal team in vietnam..cool looking rifle.
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 6:56:00 AM EDT
Okay, Tweak. Have to ask... Where did you get your shorty triangular handguards??? Thanks in advance, uxb
Link Posted: 8/14/2003 7:45:18 AM EDT
HAS ANYBODY HERE OR ANYWHERE EVER BEEN ARRESTED FOR POST BAN VIOLATIONS? I didnt think so. The Democrats and gun control advocates have done a very good job at making you all paranoid about getting "busted" by the post ban police. Now maybe in Calif I could see that but the remaining free US I dont see that. I know there are exceptions. Who here has the nuts to resist these stupid Bills? Just gonna hide behind letters to your congressman or president and wimper.... The biggest changes in Freedon came from major uprisings and resistance.... DO ANY OF YOU REMEMBER IN SCHOOL 1776..... The Boston Tea Party..... Hey lets go so far as Civil rights..... Any of you remember Rosa Parks? Riding on the white part of the bus... Drinking from the white only fountains? Stand up against these rediculous laws or bills or what ever....And just WTF law ends.....or sunsets I am no lawyer but a real law will never end or sunset.. maybe thats why the BATF hates to prosecute anybody on a fleeting law that may disappear in a year or get changed..... get a life and stop being paranoid..... With the exception of the MG ban I dont see a big deal with having evil features on anything you own........ How rediculous is the FAB 10 compared to the AR pre or post the FAB 10 can have FH and stocks. it blows my mind that so many of you can get paranoid about pre ban or post ban laws........ By the way, I am certain the post ban police are recording your brain waves now so think nice thoughts when you wear your tin foil hats [:P]
Link Posted: 8/15/2003 9:30:24 PM EDT
Well.... Can't speak for everyone but, I try to choose my battles wisely. Flash suppressors (that don't actually work (except for vortex/phantom) and collapsible stocks aren't exactly what I would want to fight the government about. Bigger issues, requiring a real fight that may be looming on the horizon are worth keeping my powder dry for. Until then I don't see a few play toy (evil) features that I can still have, only costing extra money, as too tyrannical.
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