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Posted: 8/3/2003 5:49:49 PM EDT
What is the difference between a D-FENDER(made by buffer technologies that is said to increase
extractor tension 4X) and the heavy duty extractor spring by WOLFF?
Is it needed for better reliability in a 14.5 in.
Link Posted: 8/3/2003 6:54:50 PM EDT
The D-Fender is a ring which may be added to whatever spring you are using. The latest extractor springs stronger (the units from Colt), and use a black spring insert so you can tell if it has the HD spring. The Wolf springs are great HD springs. That said, I have all of them but am trying out the Crane extractor rings. All my bolts have the latest HD springs or Wolf Springs. Sometimes using an HD spring AND an extra force extractor ring can make chambering the first round difficult, as has been reported on the boards. BTW, I am only using an extractor extra force ring in my 14.5" or 11.5" setups... Good luck to you. P.S. Something else I can highly recommend is the PRI Fat Boy gas tube (available from MSTN). It is a carbing length gas tube with expanded capacity which increases dwell time in short setups which aides in extraction and also reduces your cyclic rate to boot!!! (I use these too)
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 6:55:07 PM EDT
Here Here I run a PRI FATBOY in my 14.5 M 4gery and a Defender D ring and I sleep well at knowing my carbine will run like the wind. IPSC_GUY sends
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 7:35:58 PM EDT
I'm a big believer in D-Fender (or O-ring), and HD spring. Installed in ALL my uppers from 11.5", 14.5" and 16". As long as I can remember (going 2-3 yrs) both semi or Full Auto, no single problem.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 8:45:26 PM EDT
A question for those who use "D-fender" type rings & extra power extractor springs... do you use the standard rubber insert in conjunction with these up grades, or is it unneeded? Thanks.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 8:47:43 PM EDT
I thought the "fat boy" gas tube is only for 11.5 inchers or less. and I thought it will increase the cyclic rate. Here there are lots of gunsmiths doing M16s in 8 in barrel lenght that seems to function well. Can I just drop in the fat boy gas tube in my 14.5 or 13.5 barrel without making other adjustments. Thanks.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 8:49:42 PM EDT
Where can i buy/order tha fat boy gas tube and how much does it usually cost? thanks.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 9:16:21 PM EDT
Due to US export law, it can't be exported, if you buy them here, Wes@[url]www.mstn.biz[/url] can help you out. it runs about 70 dollars each. Fatboy will work in all carbine length barrel, it will DECREASE the cyclic rate not increase. The HD sping is a good investment so is the Defender ring, but with the new Colt HD with rubber insert, it is a already good combo along with a gas ring upgrade to McFarland one piece.
Link Posted: 8/4/2003 9:21:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/4/2003 9:23:42 PM EDT by Horik]
You can get the fat boy tube here: http://www.mstn.biz It may not be listed on the site so just email them.......great service...100% Good luck! edited to add: Nevermind! Chen just beat me to it!
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 1:04:40 AM EDT
Where can I get the McFarland one piece gas rings? How much does it cost and how much is it?
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 8:55:25 AM EDT
[B]
Originally Posted By NYPatriot: A question for those who use "D-fender" type rings & extra power extractor springs... do you use the standard rubber insert in conjunction with these up grades, or is it unneeded? Thanks.
View Quote
[/B] It's important (to me, anyway) to have the insert. As I understand correctly, all the rubber inserts are the same, just different color to ID if the spring is HD or standard. IIRC, the insert is to help extraction better.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 9:07:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sunga_sy: Where can I get the McFarland one piece gas rings? How much does it cost and how much is it?
View Quote
Armalite has them for 1.65 each. the shipping will cost more then the part.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 10:52:46 AM EDT
Before going to Blackwater I installed a Wolff extra power extractor spring and put in a better quality extractor. My gun ran just fine...
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 4:58:58 PM EDT
Do AR15s have that big of extraction problems to warrant using the D-Fender and HD springs? I have yet to experience an extraction related problem on my RRA M4 Tactical Entry LE. Or is this just an accessory which will help to reduce the possibility of such problem(s). Basically, are these truely needed? I don't know and this is why I am asking. For $13 or so, if they are that needed........then it seems like a very worthwhile upgrade. Just need information to justify the purchase.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 5:31:18 PM EDT
Its just added insurance, especially if your gun in heavily fouled. I use the Wolffe spring alone, just because Im lazy and dont want to inspect the D-ring all the time looking for wear and possible breakage.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 7:08:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777: Before going to Blackwater I installed a Wolff extra power extractor spring and put in a better quality extractor. My gun ran just fine...
View Quote
Blackwater again. Does that really impress some people? Apparently you think it does because you like to let everyone know you were there. I assume you are now an expert because of your visit. But anyway I an glad you did not have any "issues" with your AR or your Beretta.
Link Posted: 8/5/2003 7:58:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/5/2003 8:00:18 PM EDT by NYPatriot]
Hey Cornbread2... who put a bug up your ass?!?!?! So what if John_Wayne777 has had some formal weapons training & saw fit to mention it? More of us SHOULD!!! Christ... this is a gun forum after all. According to you, he should tell us all about some cooking lessons that he took! [rolleyes] You have quite an attitude for someone with four posts, Cornbread. I would suggest that you chill out. You're coming across like a corn [i]hole[/i]!
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 5:10:32 AM EDT
This guy is so full of shit. His "training" did not improve his IQ even if he did recieve such training.
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 4:09:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/6/2003 4:12:20 PM EDT by AK_Mike]
Originally Posted By LPD111: Do AR15s have that big of extraction problems to warrant using the D-Fender and HD springs? I have yet to experience an extraction related problem on my RRA M4 Tactical Entry LE. Or is this just an accessory which will help to reduce the possibility of such problem(s). Basically, are these truely needed? I don't know and this is why I am asking. For $13 or so, if they are that needed........then it seems like a very worthwhile upgrade. Just need information to justify the purchase.
View Quote
Just to chime in again, the current spring Colt uses, an HD, or Wolff extra power spring is all one should ever need in semi-auto. However when using shorter than 16" barrels in full auto, especially 11.5" or less, it may be necessary to add the ring (especially if you are using the older standard spring). Fouling, as Lumpy mentioned, can also make extraction difficult. I have found it only necessary in full auto setups 11.5" or shorter, and even then the HD springs are usually good enough (thankfully cause the rings will only take so much before melting). I think it's just a good idea to use an HD/Wolff/Colt's new spring no matter what the setup, and use the ring only if you need it. D-Fender rings are hideously expensive for a stupid (though nicely shaped and probably heat resistant) o-ring. No formal training here, just shade tree and limited experience. YYMV
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 4:31:23 PM EDT
I have used both mostly to cure problems with 11.5" and shorter carbines. I prefer the D-Fender over the spring though. The springs get weak after awhile and you are back to the same place you were when you switched to it where the D-Fender I put in my CAR15 Has work flawlessly for well over two years now Full or Semi it has always done its job.
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 5:54:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mojo: [B]
Originally Posted By NYPatriot: A question for those who use "D-fender" type rings & extra power extractor springs... do you use the standard rubber insert in conjunction with these up grades, or is it unneeded? Thanks.
View Quote
[/B] It's important (to me, anyway) to have the insert. As I understand correctly, all the rubber inserts are the same, just different color to ID if the spring is HD or standard. IIRC, the insert is to help extraction better.
View Quote
Not quite true on the insert colors. All you young pups are likely to have seen are the blue and black jobs, which are the same; but the original color was white, and it was softer than the blue that replaced it. It was also part of the problem that the first M16s had in 'Nam. That's how the blue one got to be blue in the first place.[:D] It's also the reason that a lot of us, me included, mistakenly figured that the black one was stiffer than the blue, when it first came out.
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 7:59:51 PM EDT
[b]
Originally Posted By AK_Mike: D-Fender rings are hideously expensive for a stupid (though nicely shaped and probably heat resistant) o-ring.
View Quote
[/b] I bought a bunch of O-rings in the hardware store for about 17 cents or so each. It works the same as D-Fender.
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