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Posted: 7/25/2003 1:16:39 PM EDT
Does colt put any bolt carriers in their match target rifles that are completely open on the bottom? I was looking at a new colt rifle at a gun shop and it had a cheap black plastic plunger and a bolt carrier that was open completely on the bottom. Someone told me that new colt rifles don't come this way.
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 1:35:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 2:00:00 PM EDT
Even with those "cheap substitute parts" it's still a colt and still a cut above anything else out there.
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 5:58:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By markm: Even with those "cheap substitute parts" it's still a colt and still a cut above anything else out there.
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Pardon me while I go put on the popcorn popper and sit back to watch the show when the Bushie and Rock River crowds spot this[:D]
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 6:35:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By markm: Even with those "cheap substitute parts" it's still a colt and still a cut above anything else out there.
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WTF? The only thing that sets off a Colt from any other AR company is the Colt name, everything else is the same as long as it is mil-spec. or better. I can see many downsides to owning a Colt, #1 is the sear block aka: fun stopper. That alone is enough to keep me from ever buying a Colt product. Tropic
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 6:47:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/25/2003 6:48:51 PM EDT by Womb-Raider]
I remember before I bought my first AR. I asked the guy behind the counter..." Look, I can buy the Colt or the Bushmaster... which do you think is better?" He said, well, I could tell you the Colt is a better gun, but I'd be lieing. The Bushmaster is a bit more- Mil-Spec...besides that, it's just a name thing.
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 9:10:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/25/2003 9:12:08 PM EDT by model927]
Even with those cheap"substitute parts"its a cut above any thing out there,good thing to remember when you have to use the rifle for real and those cheap"substitute parts"fail and break,for the money you shell out they can afford to be using top quality,I own 2 bushmasters and one RRA,excelent quality,I always hear the colt people say"the bushmaster has a plastic trigger gaurd"well its true but at least if it breaks it dont get me killed,I hate colt rifles the late model ones,out of spec parts ,larger diameter pins,plastic in places where it should not be,I have to say I love their 1911s but even then I have to replace the plastic mainspring housing and the plastic trigger,on the other hand the python .357 was always made good,its a nice collectable but dont trust your life to"cheap substitute parts".
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 10:36:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/25/2003 10:39:20 PM EDT by M4_Man]
"He said, well, I could tell you the Colt is a better gun, but I'd be lieing. The Bushmaster is a bit more- Mil-Spec...besides that, it's just a name thing." You always belive what a salesman tells you? Had a bushmaster that the point of impact was so far off the sights couldn't be adjusted to it. Tell me more about bushmaster... Oh- almost forgot- they supply the military M-4's... at least acording to them.
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 2:39:06 AM EDT
If you check the troubleshooting section you will find a thread of mine where I describe how I cannot fit a olyarms rifle bolt into a colt bolt carrier. Definitely the colt bolt carrier is out of specs. The thing that left me dumbfounded is that the oly bolt is marked "c" on it. So, according to the biggerhammer website it should be a COLT bolt!!!!!!!! And still, didn't fit into bolt carrier. I'm trying high and low for a method to get the bolt into specs, it appears that a hole is misaligned. Eventually I will turn to a machinist to get the job done, but still I'm really pissed off, either from the crap customer service of olyarms (not USA) that left me without a replacement bolt carrier until now (requested 98 days ago...) and from the out-of-spec colt carrier. I'm seriously thinking about an AK....
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 7:19:49 AM EDT
[b]Moron MODE[/b]: "All you're paying for is a picture of a horsie" [b]End MORON MODE.[/b] Bushie's recent quality control is pathetic to say the least. I have a couple of bushy uppers that I use for target practice. My prob with bushy (at least with the three uppers I've had) is they are not in spec like my colts. In other words to zero them properly you have to move the sights TOO far off of mechanical zero. It annoys me. Anyone who puts bushy in the same quality class as Colt just doesn't know enough to know enough.
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 7:31:58 AM EDT
Underdog, don't give up on the AR just because you were burned by OLY. Oly builds inconsistant trash. As flawed as bushmaster is, I'd take one any day over any junk that Oly has produced.
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 8:14:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/26/2003 8:16:47 AM EDT by chiroallen]
Does colt use modified m16 bolt carriers in their rifles? The bolt carrier looks to have been modified. The bottom rear of the carrier looks like it has been ground off. The marks are very visible. Also the color isn't the same where the metal was removed as it is elsewhere on the carrier. It has been blued. Also the firing pin collar is unexposed when it is in the carrier. Is this normal? Does colt send out rifles with bolt carriers that have been modified for use in the ar?
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 8:43:19 AM EDT
My Colt BC is real rough, so is my Oly BC. My Bushie BC is nice and smooth. Each gun farm produces a product that is mechanical. For anyone to think that "all" or "every" Colt, Bushie, Oly, or RRA is going to be perfect is an idiot. Poor products slip out all the time. Colt had a run with horrid products, but so has everyone else. The question is how well do they deal with their mistakes.
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 11:32:59 AM EDT
Good point. The rifle instructors who I have trained under have indicated that Colt rules the roost for least problems in their classes. I think one instructor said bushy was second behind colt. Although I would bet aramlite would be right up there if there were as many around as bushy. Needless to say Oly is the worst.
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 12:12:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By markm: Needless to say Oly is the worst.
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Needless to say by whom? I run a patrol rifle class and haven't seen many issues with Oly. There have been some, but there always are with any brand. I am curious as to how much first hand knowledge you have, and as to what problems you have seen. The biggest problems I've seen are people using shorties. I've seen Oly problems with rifles that are shot out after years of hard using, and that was simple drop in parts to get them back up and running. I've seen Colts the same way that are run hard. Colts do seem to run well usually, which is why my patrol rifle is an Colt AR6721/ AR15A3.
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 3:32:24 PM EDT
I brough this up in a post a couple of months ago, and nobody believed me. The bolt in the COLT looked like it was emasculated compared to the BUSHMASTER or the ARMALITE when I was shopping for AR's. And the COLT had more machining marks, and wasn't up to the finish of either of the other ones. Of course, don't insult all the COLT fans here - they seem to get a massive inferiority complex when anybody points out what's sub-par on a new COLT! I had the money to buy whatever I wanted, but I didn't want the COLT.
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 3:48:06 PM EDT
None of my COLTS have ever failed...Ever! Take it for what it's worth but thats the way it's been. Great finishes, great parts, and all milspec! I could care less what people choose to buy as long as it works for them! Their all AR's in the end!
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 5:08:10 PM EDT
Colt has always used M16 carriers that were modified to AR specs, tho the "AR specs" have changed from time to time over the years. Since all but one of my ARs have either Colt or GI contract M16 carriers, with the sear trip surface cut back just enough to not trip an auto sear any more, I can't personally comment on recent Colt production. Apparently, based on recent postings on this site, Colt has eliminated the cutaway under the rear of the firing pin. This is a very good move in my opinion. Now, if they would just get back to the early type back end; full circle with about half an inch cut back, they'd have the best commercial AR carrier out there. Don't know about Colt's current production stuff. My own is an SP1 carbine, and the top end of a milsurp M16A1 mounted on a Bushie lower. Top quality stuff, but nowhere near current on production dates[:D] If they are using plastic on the innards of current production pieces, I'd go ahead and replace with GI spec metal pieces; just as I did with the plastic trigger guard that came on the Bushie lower.
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 8:07:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Stickman: Needless to say by whom?
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By the number of Oly gripes I've seen on this site over the past 3 or so years I've been here. Oly bolted from this site like a dog with his tail between his legs due to the hostilities rightfully delt to those losers by the members of this site. THEY SUCK!
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 1:51:02 AM EDT
But I like the picture of the horsie… Most ARs that I’ve seen need some kind of tweaking or another, some rifles more than others. I’ve got a few Colts and a few Bushmasters, most have needed some kind of attention, but they all run great now. As long as you start with a good foundation in all the parts they shouldn’t be too difficult to get running right. I’ll just stick with what works for me; I’m too far along in the race to try and change horses now… Best Regards, J
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 10:19:36 AM EDT
I am quite happy with my Oylmpic PCR16. Granted, I've only had it a short time, but I was impressed with the quality. I wasn't sure of what to expect based on the way some of you rant and rave against them, but I am a satisfied customer so there you have it.
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 10:54:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By markm: Needless to say Oly is the worst.
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I'd agree that Olympic Arms seems to have had more than their fair share of ups and downs, more downs than ups, but I can think of brands even worse than Oly. I think American Spirit Arms (ASA) and Hesse lead the pack in this division.
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 12:48:29 PM EDT
Chiroallen, your description of the colt BC is identical to the one in my posses. The inside of the bolt carrier in mine is also hardcromed.
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 1:25:55 PM EDT
Thank all of you for your follow ups. The purpose of my posts was to settle s dispute I had with a buyer of an upper I sold on ebay. It was a colt complete post ban upper. I included everything that came in it when I purchased it new 4 years earlier. The buyer was very disappointed that the carrier was a modified m16 carrier. I did not know this when I got it but it wouldn't have mattered anyway. His argument was that colt did not put modified m16 carriers in their rifles. I assumed that I had been snookered by the store that sold me the weapon. He was especially dissapointed with the grind marks on the bottom of the carrier and asserted that colt would never put such a part in the rifle. I can understand how he would think this after recently seeing other photos of other carriers that were machined rather than ground. It doesn't affect weapon performance but there is pride in knowing you have something that involved true workmanship. Anyway thanks to all of you who posted and helped me settle the dispute.
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 3:38:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By chiroallen: Thank all of you for your follow ups. The purpose of my posts was to settle s dispute I had with a buyer of an upper I sold on ebay. It was a colt complete post ban upper. I included everything that came in it when I purchased it new 4 years earlier. The buyer was very disappointed that the carrier was a modified m16 carrier. I did not know this when I got it but it wouldn't have mattered anyway. His argument was that colt did not put modified m16 carriers in their rifles. I assumed that I had been snookered by the store that sold me the weapon. He was especially dissapointed with the grind marks on the bottom of the carrier and asserted that colt would never put such a part in the rifle. I can understand how he would think this after recently seeing other photos of other carriers that were machined rather than ground. It doesn't affect weapon performance but there is pride in knowing you have something that involved true workmanship. Anyway thanks to all of you who posted and helped me settle the dispute.
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The buyer was wrong. As I noted above, Colt builds M16s (M4s now) and ALL their AR15 carriers are and always have been cut down full auto pieces. When you're building 5,000 military pieces a month, and 500 civilian jobs, you sure as hell don't set up a separate production line to make the AR carriers from scratch. Even the Colt folks aren't that crazy[:D]
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 6:20:07 PM EDT
Did it look like this (see pic), this is from my Colt Match HBAR early 1990 vintage. Finish is good on it though, it seemed to have been cut before the finish applied. My Bushy uses an M16 carrier, no sight alignment problem with it, however it is a LEO restricted rifle, maybe it is treated better like Colt treats LEO rifles. [img]http://us.f2.yahoofs.com/users/3f22d1b8_d8ce/bc/MyPics/Colt_bolt_carrier.jpg?bcRrIJ_A25ya74et[/img]
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