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Posted: 7/24/2003 7:17:31 PM EDT
I've been looking into getting a new post-ban 16" AR-15 carbine.

I'm leaning toward Bushmaster, in particular their "Stubby Carbine" with the shorter version of the full stock. I like the idea of a stock that is more substantial and stronger that the fixed telestock, but still as handy and almost as compact as a pre-ban telestock in the closed position.

My only concern is, is it too short? I don't mind adapting somewhat to the new stock in exchange for the handiness that this carbine offers. I would never consider such a stock for a high-powered rifle, but I find it intriging for intermediate- and pistol-cartridge carbines. After all, in this catagory of firearm, we're not dealing with a very precise, long-range tack-driver. This carbine is either a plinker or a self defense,tac/CQB/moderate-range perimeter defense firearm.

Have any of you tried the "Stubby"?

Should I get the muzzle brake also?

What do you think?

I'm a F--king New Guy to the AR-15.com forum, so this is my first posting here. I'm looking forward to a long, enjoyable membership here with the rest of you. :)

Thank You.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 7:20:27 PM EDT
I had a stubby and found it a couple inches too short.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 7:50:23 PM EDT
I was shooting a buddy's RRA Entry M4 w/stubby stock. WAAAAAAAY to short. You have to tuck/coil you're firing arm up in a rather uncomfortable position. OTOH, I ain't a high speed type but it could possibly be benificial if your wearing Bulky Class III entry armor with plates and throw in a bulky tac vest/LBE for good measure.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 8:44:54 PM EDT
Go here: [url]http://www.defensive-edge.net/tacticalstore.html[/url] The Sully stock is a couple of inches longer (about the lenght of a collapsible stock open to the first notch) and is a lot more versatile. It is good for high speed shooting and control wearing light armor/tactical gear or just in your normal wear. A short length of pull is good for control in rapid fire or in close quarters, but the entry stock is too short for most. The Sully would prbably fill most roles, so if the stubby stock is too short, upgrade to a Sully.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 8:47:19 PM EDT
The "shorty" is also a light weight rifle, it seems more of a youth AR-15 than anything else.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 9:13:30 PM EDT
If you ever have to use a carbine for real work for extended periods, you will appreciate every ounce that is shaved off the AR. The lightweight barrels are extremely handy, versatile, and invaluable (IMHO) for a urban carbine.
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 3:22:27 AM EDT
To properly fire the rifle with a stubby stock, you must change your shooting style. It is designed for CQB shooting where you square off against your opponent because the front of your armor is the strong point. A classic bladed stance exposes the weak sides of your armor to your opponent.
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 4:12:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/25/2003 5:10:12 AM EDT by Matt_B]
Originally Posted By Southern_Raider: To properly fire the rifle with a stubby stock, you must change your shooting style. It is designed for CQB shooting where you square off against your opponent because the front of your armor is the strong point. A classic bladed stance exposes the weak sides of your armor to your opponent.
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A classic bladed stance also makes walking kind of tough too. Try it and you'll see what I mean. I've been checking into stubby stocks as well. Here's a quick rundown of stock lengths: - 7.25" Stubby stock - 8.00" Fulton Armory Guardian stock (extends to 11") - 8.125" Sully stock - 9.875" A1 stock - 10.50" A2 stock As you can see, the Stubby stock is substantially shorter than the standard A2 stock. I've been looking at a Stubby stock with the KAC ambi sling swivel which extends the stock 1" giving you an overall length of 8.25", just .125" more than the Sully stock. I like having a QD sling swivel. The stock on my Fulton Armory Liberator has a QD mount on the rear of the A2 stock so I've gotten used to it but would prefer to have the sling attached at the end of the receiver. I've been hesitant to take the plunge in anticipation of the AWB sunsetting in 09/2004. I'd still rather have a real telescoping stock so I can have my cake and eat it to. For the same reason I've been holding off picking up a pre-ban lower. Just some things to think about.
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 4:38:04 AM EDT
I'm building an M4gery up and decided to go with the ACE ARFX-E (short) stock. I got it in the mail this week and it is SHORT. Which for me is what I want. I'm going to put an adjustable buttplate on it. It is exactly what I wanted for a compact weapon. I didn't measure it but I would guess it's about the same as the BM stubby.
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 9:05:23 AM EDT
[url=groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/stocks.msnw]Stocks[/url]
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 11:37:04 AM EDT
I don't have any of the short stocks, but the Bushmaster Telestock at the plus one position is perfect for me. And with regard to your other question, let the muzzle hang free in the breeze-- no brake. And I can second NoTack's link suggestion. They've got comparison pics of many of the stocks.
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 12:12:56 PM EDT
Does anyone have the Ace ARBT stock?
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 1:03:39 PM EDT
8.25" with the 1" recoil pad on the ACE ARFX-E and I've got to tell you, it fits me perfectly! I got to feel one the other day at the local shop. They were building one for a guy with that stock. I'm fairly small (5'5") so it fit me perfectly. Nice and fast, not to mention comfortable. I found the fully collapsed stocks to be too short and I'm pretty sure that is the length that the BSMA and the RRA Entry Tactical are. Good luck with your choice!
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 2:34:57 PM EDT
Interesting thread, I have been experimenting with stock lenght lately, and with the proper hold it works wonders for control at high speed. The trick is to hold the stock on your chest, right in line with your nipple, not in the pocket as with normal length stock, recoil is not as far removed from center of body, giving it less leverage to move/twist your torso. As mentioned above this also works best when more or less facing target with upper body. Anyone have input on this? It's only a recent experiment for me, but the results look promising. Travis F.
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 2:48:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By notack: [url=groups.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/stocks.msnw]Stocks[/url]
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wow, I just spent the last 60 minutes reading and studying stocks.... Am I an enthusiast or what!
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 2:55:06 PM EDT
I have a "stubby" at present [:D] I have to say though---- [b]Only go this route if you feel a need for the shortest possible non NFA - postban rifle. I do love the little guy though [^] [img]http://compjrk.home.mindspring.com/dadcar.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 3:41:54 PM EDT
From DETC web site:
Can only be used with 16 inch or shorter barrels.
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Shouldn't that read 16 inch or [b]longer[/b]?
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 3:56:34 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Delta_3_63: From DETC web site:
Can only be used with 16 inch or shorter barrels.
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Shouldn't that read 16 inch or [b]longer[/b]?
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Nah I think it is in reference to it having a carbine length buffer tube length. Plus a 20 with one of those on it would look pretty F--Ked up! Not to mention the balance would be awful.
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 3:59:59 PM EDT
I just bought a RRA Entry Tac with the stubby stock and added the Sierra Products adjustable butplate. Ive found that it locks in tight and is easily adjustable whether I need an entry length or a traditional length of pull... just my .02 worth...
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 3:29:26 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TBF: The trick is to hold the stock on your chest, right in line with your nipple, not in the pocket as with normal length stock, recoil is not as far removed from center of body, giving it less leverage to move/twist your torso. As mentioned above this also works best when more or less facing target with upper body.
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That is [b]exactly[/b] the correct way of using the stubby stock. When using web gear, the stock seems even less stubby.
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 5:53:56 AM EDT
I have one, slightly modified with a single point sling attachment, which pushed the stock out about 1/2". It is a great shooting gun, but I do think I am going to get a muzzle brake installed as I seem to get a tooth bash on the charging handle once in a while. It is a fantastic gun with a grip on the front, a surefire and a reddot. I may never be clearing a house in Iraq, but it is nice to have a weapon that is lightweight, powerful, easy to handle and with the light and reddot an easy night use gun. You never know when the possums might hit the cans. Oh, and I am stubby myself, 5'7" so I am biased to smaller guns. The M14/M1A length of pull is highly uncomfortable for me. I did not buy one simply on that. (then I found out how much the mags were).
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 2:30:06 PM EDT
Haven't even shot it yet. Bought just the lower to add to the spare upper. [img]http://home.nc.rr.com/blueshockey77/stubby.jpg[/img]
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