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Posted: 7/24/2003 12:15:09 PM EDT
Hi,

It's probably an old subject for you guys, but I'm new to this and I would like to get some feedback.

It is probably like cars... there will always be different opinions. What do you think ?
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 12:22:36 PM EDT
I consider Colt and Bushmaster the best, unless of course you go with a custom maker like Les Baer, Wilson Combat (ar-15.com), etc. If I had to choose, I would pick Colt. Colts seem to hold their values for some reason, but nobody knows why...
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 12:34:48 PM EDT
I own a Colt, and all my friends have Bushmasters. I probably have shot Bushmasters more than Colts, butI like my Colt better than their Bushmasters. They are both very high quality. Dont listen to people who say Colt is crap, and Bushmaster is far better, because they are all Bushmaster owners, and obviously biased. I say they are equal in quality, just choose whichevers features you like best.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 12:37:27 PM EDT
Six of one, half a dozen of the other.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 12:45:34 PM EDT
I shot only 1 pre-ban colt. it was using like 20 year old reloads.....jammed almost everytime. i dont recall it jamming in mine...i belive i tried about 5 rounds...or i may have traded 20 for 20 i cant recall. anyway my bushie has never skipped a beat. Also colt and bushie are virtually the same. the only diff. is the name. do you really want to pay alot more for a name? besides i hear bushmaster has alot better costomer service than colt.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 1:01:32 PM EDT
Depends on the what you are using the rifle for. The Bushmaster Varminter is a hell of an accurate long range rifle. My Colt Match Target M4 is a hell of CQ rifle and it has a somewhat unique 14.5" 1:7 twist barrel. And that brings up another point... each company has a couple unique rifle/carbine configurations that the competitor doesn't. Just my 2 cents worth... --RR
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 1:04:04 PM EDT
I have a Colt Match Target HBAR lower and a Colt Competition Match Target lower that I would trade for Bushmaster lowers. I see no difference in the uppers between BM and Colt.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 1:17:19 PM EDT
Just do what i did make a Hybrid [sex] ....... I have both tied up in one and it works flawlessly .. I own a M4 upper compleetly Colt [nana] and then i own a lower completly Bushmaster BEST OF BOTH WORLDS never ever had a malfunction so far but i only use Q3131a ....hope this helps alot of you who cant decide..... [brick]
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 1:24:38 PM EDT
You will never tell the difference. forgings come from the same places. The Bushie is a field deployable weapon. IMHO the colt is not. But with a little $$ it can be. Colt has more machining processes in their lower. Fine little details. and last but not least they say COLT on the side. GG
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 2:47:40 PM EDT
I have heard the Colt will hold its value better but Bushmaster is better on service, also make sure you get a barrel that will shoot 5.56 and chrome is not a bad idea for your first AR.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 3:03:24 PM EDT
I think that colt has a lifetime warranty, and bushie only has a one year one. Perhaps that is the extra cost in a colt?
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 3:20:55 PM EDT
Lets not forget colts out of spec lower parts that kill it as a standard serviceable weapon system,unless you get an early made one,then all the components are spec except for front screw could be large or small and no fence around mag catch,the colt is a good collectible and good match rifle but I wouldnt use it for the field because of the serviceability factor,I have a 6601 colt HBAR thta gets used for DCM matches and a pre ban bushy that I trust my life to.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 3:24:13 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 5:05:34 PM EDT
The issues with the pin sizes and front screw are really non-issues. Some Colts will have the screw, but will also have the quick-disconnect holes drilled, and some will not. How many times will you need to have mil-spec sized pins to replace your Colt oversized pins? Never. Colt pins exist, and can be easily made by a machinist if necessary. Who cares?
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 5:33:55 PM EDT
You may want to check on a thread tacked up over on the troubleshooting forum. It addresses this very issue. My goal after the AW ban dies will be to build a couple of ARs on Bushie lowers with Colt uppers. I do really like the Colt uppers but their lowers they can keep. Bushy is far more supportive of gunowners and has better customer service but I have really never needed an service on any Colt product--once again, see the troubleshooting thread.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 5:46:23 PM EDT
Yes.
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 7:47:42 PM EDT
I must have the only lemon made by Colt, MT6551. I'll stick with my 6 Bushmasters! 2 Varminters 1 A2/DCM Varminter 1 Shorty AK 1 20" Match Target 1 25th Anniversary Carbine
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 12:28:26 PM EDT
Well, Thank you guys... I'll take all this in consideration and take my time before I buy something. I'm sure there is some useful info all over this site. Thanks again...
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 1:01:00 PM EDT
My Bushmaster appears to be of equal quality and accuracy when compared to my Colt. I haven't had any experience with Bushmaster customer service, but I HAVE had three experiences with Colt's repair service and, in my opinion, it's terrible. Based on that alone, if I were buying another gun today, it would be a Bushmaster or an Aramlite.
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 11:20:06 PM EDT
Believe it or not, BUT Civilian Bushmaster ARs are closer to a mil-spec M16, than Civilian Colt ARs. Colt is afraid of bad PR, due to their contract with the gov. So they intentionally design their civilian versions "less military grade" to avoid meaningless lawsuits...For example: newer Colts are a hell of alot more difficult to convert to Full auto, than bushmasters. There have been siginificant changes made to the lower reciever (perticularly trigger) in newer models that are not mil. spec. In short, Colt doesn't trust their civilian costumers. These are facts. Go with bushmaster....just my 2 cents
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 1:03:49 AM EDT
The Colt M6400C seems to be the best Colt offering and the only one offered to civilians with the great majority of desirable features. It has a metal buffer, front quick takedown pin, M4 feed ramps, chrome lined bore as well as the chamber, and I think the improved M4 bolt/carrier assembly. It does, however, still have the oversized trigger and hammer pins and the sear block with cuts in the carrier to clear it. Other Colts have those drawbacks as well as plastic buffers, a screw in place of the front takedown pin (although it is a standard sized hole now allowing you to have it fitted for the pin), and chromed chambers only. With a Bushmaster, you could more easily and inexpensively get it up to current improved specs. You can easily have the m4 feed ramps cut into the chamber and the improved parts of the bolt assembly are available on the civilian market. It is possible to make a Bushmaster into a product improved military version dowwn to the last detail (sans burst or auto). However, with the oversized trigger pins, you are stuck using prorietary pins (not that its a big deal, but it is important to some). And on most Colt barels, you would have to find a chrome lined barrel to replace the factory installed one and you would have to have the front screw removed and drill it for a milspec takedown pin. So if you are looking for an M4gery, either one will serve you well and not need a lot of improvement. For every other model, get a Bushy and modify it how you want. Although Colt is the only one offering 1/7 barrels in a wide variety of configurations. While Bushmaster only has 1/7 barrels in M4 and 20" gov't profiles. Of course, most of those Colt barrels are not available to civilians as complet rifles and you would have to have them installed. What did I do? I had a Colt barrel installed on my Bushy.
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 10:16:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bottom_Gun: I haven't had any experience with Bushmaster customer service...
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i've had many encounters with their C/S....And Honest to God: they responded to all my e-mails within a day, and when I called with a more complex question, they connected me to a knowledgeable gunsmith...I've never been on hold for more than 2 minutes with bushmaster...beat that Beretta USA (F***ing bastards had me on hold for 35 minutes, NEVER buying from them again!!!)
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 4:12:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/28/2003 2:04:22 PM EDT by Mike_T]
Originally Posted By Lockedon: Believe it or not, BUT Civilian Bushmaster ARs are closer to a mil-spec M16, than Civilian Colt ARs. Colt is afraid of bad PR, due to their contract with the gov. So they intentionally design their civilian versions "less military grade" to avoid meaningless lawsuits...For example: newer Colts are a hell of alot more difficult to convert to Full auto, than bushmasters. There have been siginificant changes made to the lower reciever (perticularly trigger) in newer models that are not mil. spec. In short, Colt doesn't trust their civilian costumers. These are facts. Go with bushmaster....just my 2 cents
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Care to cite a source for these "facts"?
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 4:34:13 AM EDT
Of course, there are so many answers to your question (all of them provocative) that ther teally IS no definitive answer. I have both. I far prefer the Bushmaster. But frankly I not only don't like Colt's politics, I don't like their hand guns either. But that's just me?
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 12:47:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By knightone: The Colt M6400C seems to be the best Colt offering and the only one offered to civilians with the great majority of desirable features. It has a metal buffer, front quick takedown pin, M4 feed ramps, chrome lined bore as well as the chamber, and I think the improved M4 bolt/carrier assembly. It does, however, still have the oversized trigger and hammer pins [RED]and the sear block with [u]cuts in the carrier to clear it.[/u][/RED]
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Interesting... Does this mean other manufacturer's carriers could possibly have mechanical interference issues with the Colt Sear Block?
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 10:02:59 PM EDT
I can only speak about LEO issue guns. My agency has 15 ARs in issue. 8 are Bushmaster, 7 are Colt. The Bushmasters had some initial function problems/ break-in issues that stopped when we switched to Slip 2000 lube from Break-free and sh!tcanned about 10,000 rounds of Winchester Q3131. They work fine now, but the Colts have always worked fine. I will only buy Colts for my department from now on. For personal use, I'd buy a Bushmaster with no reservations. I just think they're a little "tight" when new and need to be shot 300-500 rounds to wear-in.
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 10:36:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Mike_T:
Originally Posted By Lockedon: Believe it or not, BUT Civilian Bushmaster ARs are closer to a mil-spec M16, than Civilian Colt ARs. Colt is afraid of bad PR, due to their contract with the gov. So they intentionally design their civilian versions "less military grade" to avoid meaningless lawsuits...For example: newer Colts are a hell of alot more difficult to convert to Full auto, than bushmasters. There have been siginificant changes made to the lower reciever (perticularly trigger) in newer models that are not mil. spec. In short, Colt doesn't trust their civilian costumers. These are facts. Go with bushmaster....just my 2 cents
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Care to cite a source for these "facts"?
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Sure thing: Before i bought my first AR, i didn't know about this site, so i send letters and made phone calls to Bushmaster, Colt and Armalite, having them convince me why their product is superior. This is what i learned. I don't mean to sound bias, In fact, Colt do tend to retain their resale value alot better than any other AR out there...prolly for the name, but don't ask me why else.
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 11:31:43 AM EDT
Just FYI- Colt made the civilian Ar-15's different from the military versions because of government regulations. Remember- they have a multi million dollar sales contract with the U.S. and the contract does place restrictions on them. Remember- they are the only one who can sell this weapon (M-4) to the military and the public. One of the restrictions was that the military parts were not to be easily usable in the civilian models. Hence the design differences of the SP-1, etc from the M-16. I believe this has been relaxed somewhat over the years. Absolutly nothing to do with P.R., lawsuits, or trust of their civilian customers that you allege. Although, to think about it for a minute, the regulation may be there because the gov't doesn't trust you ( well, maybe not you in particular).
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