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Posted: 7/21/2003 5:27:42 PM EDT
Now that the government policy of destroying all the A1 parts being replaced seems to be ended, there seem to be a number of us who, like me, are building up clones of the early M16 and M16A1 rifles.

Barrels and upper recievers (both Army A1 types and Air Force surp M16) show up fairly regularly at gun shows and here on this site. The big problem is that most of us have to use M16A2 configuration lowers to build these things up.

My question then is this. How many of you guys would be interested in getting early type lowers, with the squared off front lugs, and without the reinforcement around the rear ring, or the right side fire control markings?

I'm hopeful that, if I can get enough people to commit, and be willing to put up a deposit, that maybe we can talk one of the parts houses to make up some out of their existing raw forgings.

Don't have any idea of how many orders it would take to get the thing rolling, but if enough of you guys answer affirmatively, I'll try to do some spade work on this.

I'll BTT this every few days for awhile, to see what kind of response comes in
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 5:43:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2003 5:46:20 PM EDT by Boomholzer]
A current order post-ban rcvr to be fitted to a pre-ban upper? I dont really understand as you quote M16. Correct me if im stupid but pre-exsisting raw forgings do not evade the AW ban. I guess having such a rifle as more of a display piece and lacking the bayonette lug and FS is counter-productive. I love triangle handguards but can't see having them fitted on a 20" post-ban. For the extra $400, ill get closer to the real thing.
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 5:50:31 PM EDT
Not to gloat or anything, but you mean like this one? [img]http://pic6.picturetrail.com/VOL176/1171244/2214857/26820068.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 6:00:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2003 6:06:47 PM EDT by shamayim]
Huh? Don't know about you, but I mod my bayo lugs by simply shaving the retaining tits down to where they won't click on the bayo, and you have to look up from the bottom to see any difference. Since I don't have a Fruedian addiction to knives, I'm not real concerned that it won't hold one.[:D] Re the flash suppressor, you can either put a sleeve in the original, or use one of the A2 style muzzle brakes currently out. I sleeved mine, and of course pinned it. Cost? Well, the A1 clone I built earlier this year cost me $325 for the complete upper assy, with all parts, and $275 for the DPMS complete current production lower, plus $15 for the A1 buttstock. Where did you say you could get a complete SP1 for $615? [:D] And if I'd had to have paid an extra $50-$100 for a special production A1 clone lower, bringing the total cost to $665-$715, wouldn't that still be $300-$400 under what a decent SP1 will cost these days? Edited to add: Whoops, forgot the early type handgrip for $8
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 6:07:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/21/2003 6:11:09 PM EDT by Derek45]
I built a post ban A1 a few years ago. I sold it here on equipment exchange. I used a Bushy lower, A1 upper COLT 20" 1:12 M16A1 barrel. triangle handguards, I dremeled off the bayonet lug and mounted a CAV-COMP in place of the Flash suppressor. It was SWEET, but I needed cash for My COLT SP-1 addiction. I doubt most people have ever noticed the difference between an A1 and A2 lower. I doubt there would be a market for it. [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/052596.JPG[/img]
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 6:15:02 PM EDT
Count me in, I've had several A1 styled AR's in the past but either sold or upgraded those rifles with the latest parts to stay on the cutting edge of AR evolution. I remember when you couldn't hardly give A1 parts away when everyone wanted an A2 or an early style M4. Now I wish I'd kept some for nostalgia's sake. Anyhow, I am also in the process of collecting up these early parts to build an M16 and A1 clone. I actually have everything for both but an early chrome plated, no FA notch bolt carrier for the M16 and those elusive lower receivers. PAC West pre-bans would be my first choice (if you can find one at a reasonable price), as these didn't have the A2 reinforcements and were as close to an A1 as you could get. I have toyed with the idea of taking a Essential Arms lower, you know the early cast ones with the funky mag catch fence and raised logo, and milling the fence off to re-create the look of the early M16's which only had the pivot pin boss and no mag catch fence. Then re-finishing in a Colt gray to match the upper. If you can find a company willing to make an early receiver that would be great. Hopefully someone out there still has the old style forgeing dies to do them with. Taking a new style forging and then machining off the reinforcements to the older style would probably be a pain, especially around the right side to duplicate the take down pin detent boss. Not to mention being cost prohibitive to get a reasonably price lower. Not trying to sound negative, just something to think about. I for one, would be all over such a receiver. Especially if they can get them out so that if the AWB dies we can keep our suppressors and bayonet lugs. Or, if it's replaced by something more draconian, we can still have a post-ban nuetured, grandfathered clone. Wpns Man
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 6:18:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Derek45: I built a post ban A1 a few years ago. I sold it here on equipment exchange. I used a Bushy lower, A1 upper COLT 20" 1:12 M16A1 barrel. triangle handguards, I dremeled off the bayonet lug and mounted a CAV-COMP in place of the Flash suppressor. It was SWEET, but I needed cash for My COLT SP-1 addiction. I doubt most people have ever noticed the difference between an A1 and A2 lower. I doubt there would be a market for it. [url]http://www.hunt101.com/img/052596.JPG[/url]
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Which is precisely why I put this post up. No interest, no harm done. Since my XM177E2 clone is aleady on an SP1 lower, and the M16A1 lookalike is on a DPMS A2 lower, if there's no interest, I'll build the M16 copy on another DPMS job and go merrily on my way[:D][:D]
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 6:24:43 PM EDT
Who knows? Colt has been stirring some interest in making WWI and WWII 1911 pistols lately. Maybe they still have some old lowers???
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 6:32:45 PM EDT
I for one the love the SP1 and I built a clone using a large hole A1 upper with forward assist without a shell deflector on my preban SP1 lower.. The only disadvantage is the color match is not even close. I will refinish one day. It is a slabside lower though and not 100% correct.
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 6:33:45 PM EDT
I am very interested this is a project that I have wanted to do for a couple years. I want to build a clone of the rifle I was issued in 1981. I have not spent any time scouring the boards for parts. I am waiting for someone to come through with a complete upper. I would be satisfied to just put the upper on my SP1 lower. Anyone that knows where to get the upper, let me know. AB7KT@pahrump.net
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 8:34:14 PM EDT
Anyone interested in having an M16/M16A1 clone built or in purchasing an A1 lower let me know. After working on my XM177E2 kits I have a source that will make the lower for me. I can get all the parts necessary to build Postban semi-auto M16A1 clones with new Colt parts. Price will depend on the interest and volume of sales. Colt-653
Link Posted: 7/21/2003 8:41:08 PM EDT
Here's my post ban clone. [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=10612[/img] [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=10613[/img]
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 4:14:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Max_Power: Here's my post ban clone. [url]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=10612[/url] [url]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=10613[/url]
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Very cool, what kind of finish on the receivers?
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 5:40:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Derek45:
Originally Posted By Max_Power: Here's my post ban clone. [url]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=10612[/url] [url]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=10613[/url]
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Very cool, what kind of finish on the receivers?
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Parkote, Derek Huffman at Arizona Expert Arms built and finished it.
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 7:02:34 AM EDT
Keislers has Colt 20" new A-1 1x12 uppers for sale that they claim have been in storage for 20 years. The do have the tear drop foward assist. It's in their ad in Shotgun News but not on their website.
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 7:11:55 AM EDT
How about seeing if Mega or Stinger would produce the lower ?
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 7:25:11 AM EDT
If it's got a fenced lower, it ain't the same. Of course, if it doesn't have a bayonet lug or a 3 prong FH, it ain't the same. I'll stick with my original SP1 for now. If you plan on doing this after Sept. 2004, count me in.
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 7:27:40 AM EDT
I would be interested in one or two. Here's a couple I built. One is slick side and one has FA. I have the proper grips now. [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=13371[/img]
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 8:24:51 AM EDT
This is from Keislers ad: Colt pre-ban upper assemblies in storage for 20+ years 20" standard barrel 1x12 rifling twist fixed carry handle receiver a-1 adjustable sights flash hider/bayonet lug includes bolt assembly $499.00 It also has the triangular handgaurds. I'm guessing that you could build an E-1 version with this upper right?
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 10:15:56 AM EDT
Besides all other guns I plan on buying, the AR collection will go like this, preban Colt m4gery, almost there. THen I'd like to make an SPR, then an orig. Sp1. I would think that just buying an orig. SP1! I mean, isn't the lower rec. what makes it LOOK like a REAL SP1?
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 3:27:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/22/2003 3:32:37 PM EDT by shamayim]
Originally Posted By Colt-653: Anyone interested in having an M16/M16A1 clone built or in purchasing an A1 lower let me know. After working on my XM177E2 kits I have a source that will make the lower for me. I can get all the parts necessary to build Postban semi-auto M16A1 clones with new Colt parts. Price will depend on the interest and volume of sales. Colt-653
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This sounds like the best possiblity yet[:D]. 653, if you'll find out what minimum quantity we'd need to shoot for, and figure out how much pre production deposit we'd need to put up, we might just get this thing off the ground. Ideally, I'd love one w/the mag fence, and one without; but would be perfectly happy w/two of the later type mag fence pieces. Your post just made my day[:D] Re the Keislers deal, their price is $175 more than I paid for the same thing from a dealer in Missouri, who had a booth at the Eastman show here in Atlanta abour 7 or 8 months ago. I would definately shop these pieces.
Link Posted: 7/22/2003 3:36:52 PM EDT
Sarco had Military 1:12 twist chromed barrels for $135 a few years ago. I ordered two and they were both brand new COLT. Not sure if they have any left.
Link Posted: 7/23/2003 7:55:03 AM EDT
I bought on of Larry's barrels. They are as advertised and appear new unfired. [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=173325[/url]
Link Posted: 7/23/2003 2:56:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By captainpooby: I bought on of Larry's barrels. They are as advertised and appear new unfired. [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=173325[/url]
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Roger. Got one enroute even as we "speak".[:D] Now if the guy who had the M16 upper I passed up at the last show still has it (couldn't get him down the last $20, and hate like hell to pay more than $100 for a used upper), I'm halfway home to an M16 Air Force duplicate.
Link Posted: 7/23/2003 3:10:09 PM EDT
Try CMMG I think they sometimes have used M16 uppers. I forget where I got mine but they were pretty much unused just had lots of handling marks from sittin in a parts bin for 20 some years.
Link Posted: 7/23/2003 5:41:19 PM EDT
Can somebody tell me who can refinish a lower in the colt grey or where I can purchase the correct color?
Link Posted: 7/23/2003 6:07:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jimtash9: Can somebody tell me who can refinish a lower in the colt grey or where I can purchase the correct color?
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Same here, I need to get rid of the ugly black color. Tropic
Link Posted: 7/23/2003 7:57:51 PM EDT
The finish Colt used back in the 60's to the mid 80's is called Sandstrom 9. The company I'm working with to get the A1 lowers built may be able to finish the lowers with this product. I need to find out what demand I'm looking at before I can get a firm price from the vendor on price per unit on the lowers. I'll keep everyone updated. Colt-653
Link Posted: 7/25/2003 6:00:01 AM EDT
BTT for those who might be interested, and haven't seen this yet[:D]
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