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Posted: 7/18/2003 9:57:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2003 12:46:07 AM EDT by strongmad]
There have been threads from time to time which started out as something or another, and ended up as "when they come for my guns I'll..." Well, I was really wondering what your avarage LEO (and AR15 member) has to say about this? I mean, what would you, Mr. Leo, do if "they" told you to suitup and go get Joe Gun's guns? What if they told you to make friendly neiboorhood visits where you just knocked on the door asking for info etc. What if you were charged to knock on doors w/ search warrents. What if you were charged to suit up in JBT gear and kick in people's doors. Lets also assume that you are not going to the homes of career criminals, poeple w/ records and so forth, but those whose only crime is having bought arms of certain sorts, or having them unaccounted for, or having claimed they were all sold before the ban etc. Hmmmm????

Maybe I should post this on the LEO board, but it seems that this is the most active board, and besides, I think the non-LEO's should see this and so forth.
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 10:21:50 PM EDT
First off let me say that "I WILL NOT REMOVE ONE SINGLE FIREARM FROM THE POSSESSION OF A LAW ABIDING HONEST CITIZEN!" Now having said that I will say that it will not happen that way, They will use the military or select Reserve/Guard units. Check with Soldier of Fortune magazine for the article they did when the Feds asked if the would Round Up firearms if asked. The answer will suprise and frighten you.
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 10:47:33 PM EDT
First, I pretty much ditto what dynamic said, and Second....Lock this BS Post. If you want to start a flame war and a cop bashing, go do it on the general discussion board and type away with the tired, overused topics. And stay off the brothers of the shield board with this kind of crap. There are more relevant things being discussed there and no need for a troll topic. There is a handy link to the general board at the top of the page...enjoy. -The Man in Tan
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 11:09:24 PM EDT
I agree, what a dumb topic. First of all they are not going to just ban all the guns then send the police after you. First "assualt" style rifles will be band, Then Pistols and revolvers, and then all smemi automatic guns. and so on like that untill all you can have are muzzle loaders or bows. The reason they will use? [b]Liberal brain washed main streem public opinion in the future:[/b] "Because thats all you need to hunt will and any thing else you would only want to kill other people with." For each ban you will have a grace period to turn in you guns. If you don't the ATF and or FBI will come to your house to seize them. Sence the ATF and FBI will become the seceret police of the new dictator ship (which is sure to come fast after most of the country is left with no formitable weapons.) They will gladly help disarm you. They will also be brain washed by main streem opion that what they are doing really is the "right thing". They will not send a normal cop to come get you guns. They will asume your going to use your weapons and therefore they will send a fedral S.W.A.T style team to take them from you.
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 11:48:03 PM EDT
While in uniform, I have stood against the ATF before, I would do it again. The cops you find on these boards are pro-gun, which makes your question pointless.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 12:04:27 AM EDT
Everyone, I am not trying to start some flame war, or cop bashing, and I know that the avarage Ar15.com LEO is going to be pro gun, I was just wondering what the perspective of these LEO's was on that sort of ?. I have heard non-leo's talk about this sort of thing. I am sorry for the somewhat incendeary subject title, I was just trying to get readers and responses. I suppose you are right about the military and Federal JBT's. I am just trying to intellectually prepare myself.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 12:39:38 AM EDT
Incendeary subject title? That along with the smart-ass "Mr. LEO" questions and the "what are you going to do, hmmmmm? You going to come take my guns? Hmmmmm?" If you want to legitmately post this kind of question to this crowd, I suggest you tread lightly, show a little respect, and knock off the wise-ass gramatics. That said, I still think this [bs] thread should be locked. Take the matter up with your elected policitians. In closing...... [fart]
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 12:48:11 AM EDT
IBTL
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 2:42:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2003 2:47:47 AM EDT by Sunset04]
Why are y'all being so hard on the guy? He just asked a few honest questions. Stop acting like you're above everyone because you're a fucking LEO. I'll tell you right now if a cop comes knocking on my door to grab my guns, that poor bastard is gonna die. It's a deadly serious question, and I think it's a good one. What do you think your non-AR15-owning partners would do? What would you do? Quit? Let a few people go free? Fight? Personally, I would fight. That would be the last straw. "I suggest you tread lightly, show a little respect, and knock off the wise-ass gramatics." Fuck you. Why don't you show a little respect to the people who pay your salary? Why don't you also lose the 'obey your master' mentality? You want people to talk to you like you're King fucking Tut or something. You are nothing but a bully. He just asked a few questions like you were a normal human being and a FRIEND, then you turn around with your little night stick and treat him like shit. I doubt some of you would have the courage to stand up to gun confiscations. You'd probably enjoy wielding your power onto other people. I wouldn't hestitate for a second to waste an arrogant prick like you trying to force your will on the rest of us. Why don't you go live in the middle east and you can be a henchman for some tyrannical royal government, so you'll feel confident that you are really better than the average person. Then the land of the free and the home of the brave where every man was created equal will come topple your silly little kingdom while you cower in the corner trying to hide in women's clothing. Fuck you. You guys are public servants, not public enforcers. Don't forget it.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 2:57:04 AM EDT
strongmad, I don't see anything negative about your post. It is a legitimate question to people (board members) who we consider as our allies. There is no reason for anyone to get upset about it. I know that the officers that we shoot 3-gun matches with wouldn't be upset with such question.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 3:26:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sunset04: Why are y'all being so hard on the guy? He just asked a few honest questions. Stop acting like you're above everyone because you're a fucking LEO. [red]I'll tell you right now if a cop comes knocking on my door to grab my guns, that poor bastard is gonna die.[/red] It's a deadly serious question, and I think it's a good one. What do you think your non-AR15-owning partners would do? What would you do? Quit? Let a few people go free? Fight? Personally, I would fight. That would be the last straw. "I suggest you tread lightly, show a little respect, and knock off the wise-ass gramatics." [red]Fuck you.[/red] Why don't you show a little respect to the people who pay your salary? Why don't you also lose the 'obey your master' mentality? You want people to talk to you like you're King fucking Tut or something. You are nothing but a bully. He just asked a few questions like you were a normal human being and a FRIEND, then you turn around with your little night stick and treat him like shit. I doubt some of you would have the courage to stand up to gun confiscations. You'd probably enjoy wielding your power onto other people. [red]I wouldn't hestitate for a second to waste an arrogant prick like you trying to force your will on the rest of us.[/red] Why don't you go live in the middle east and you can be a henchman for some tyrannical royal government, so you'll feel confident that you are really better than the average person. Then the land of the free and the home of the brave where every man was created equal will come topple your silly little kingdom while you cower in the corner trying to hide in women's clothing. [red]Fuck you.[/red] You guys are public servants, not public enforcers. Don't forget it.
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Every few weeks, when this exact same topic comes up, this is a standard response. It ALWAYS turns into a pissing contest and usually gets locked pretty quickly. oh yeah....IBTL CHRIS
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 4:10:00 AM EDT
yeah IBTL.can only get worse from here, and it didnt have far to fall from , lol.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 4:17:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2003 4:17:38 AM EDT by warhorse]
Originally Posted By Sunset04: Why are y'all being so hard on the guy? He just asked a few honest questions. Stop acting like you're above everyone because you're a fucking LEO. I'll tell you right now if a cop comes knocking on my door to grab my guns, that poor bastard is gonna die. It's a deadly serious question, and I think it's a good one. What do you think your non-AR15-owning partners would do? What would you do? Quit? Let a few people go free? Fight? Personally, I would fight. That would be the last straw. "I suggest you tread lightly, show a little respect, and knock off the wise-ass gramatics." Fuck you. Why don't you show a little respect to the people who pay your salary? Why don't you also lose the 'obey your master' mentality? You want people to talk to you like you're King fucking Tut or something. You are nothing but a bully. He just asked a few questions like you were a normal human being and a FRIEND, then you turn around with your little night stick and treat him like shit. I doubt some of you would have the courage to stand up to gun confiscations. You'd probably enjoy wielding your power onto other people. I wouldn't hestitate for a second to waste an arrogant prick like you trying to force your will on the rest of us. Why don't you go live in the middle east and you can be a henchman for some tyrannical royal government, so you'll feel confident that you are really better than the average person. Then the land of the free and the home of the brave where every man was created equal will come topple your silly little kingdom while you cower in the corner trying to hide in women's clothing. Fuck you. You guys are public servants, not public enforcers. Don't forget it.
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Yeah, what he said
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 4:24:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SMGLee: IBTL
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What does this mnemonic stand for?
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 6:30:51 AM EDT
[img]http://photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?sAccountUnq=19372&iGalleryUnq=574&iImageUnq=14921[/img]
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 6:31:16 AM EDT
I-Beat-The-Lock = IBTL
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 6:49:30 AM EDT
gee whiz, here we go again. oh yeah, IBTL.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 7:49:55 AM EDT
Too bad this turned into a pissing contest before it got started. I think it's a legit topic and question. I for one am curious how many would come over to our side. How many would surrender their job, career for freedom? How many of their fellow LEOs would? I think most gun owners would like to believe that the LEO community would be on OUR side as if that is so we have less to fear. Too bad about these threads always turning into flamewars. Oh well... IBTL
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 7:50:50 AM EDT
The questions been asked so much that any archived thread search on any gun board will bring up at least 5 or 6 similar threads.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 7:52:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2003 7:53:55 AM EDT by PROVO]
I.B.T.L.Maintain.It's people like you that cause real cop'to catch shit from the people.That kind of response from an officer make's me very nervis.People just make sure you steer WAY clear of ky,cause if that prick stop;s you,you had better be a white american with NO legal screw up;s in your past,OTHERWISE.P.S. my best friend is a career l.e.o.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 8:48:05 AM EDT
Only [b]Airsoft[/b] and [I][B]IBTL[/I][/B]
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 8:52:06 AM EDT
Some cops are already looking the other way in California, I have heard, if the gun carrier/owner is a law-abiding citizen with no other record and not up to criminal activity besides the carry/ownership violation. Discretion is a wonderful thing. Luckily, I am empowered to use discretion, except in the case of civil rights violations and domestic violence. Of course, (for the Feds out there), I would like to say that I would never, never, never do such a thing as I always scrupulously enforce the law on good, law abiding citizens who violate weapons laws. That being said, I can make more money doing something else and I don't fear the populace I work with. Note use of the word with not for; I probably pay more takes than any turd who ever told me he pays my salary. I trust that most people are good and don't need government intervention in their lives. It has to be that way, or otherwise we'd never be able to do our jobs. There's only 700,000 in law enforcement including local, state and federal, ergo, there's no way we could, by force, control the 300 million Americans. We have to do our job with the consent of the people. I don't see myself kicking in the doors of my neighbors or helping any alphabet agencies to do so, either.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 9:21:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sunset04: Why are y'all being so hard on the guy? He just asked a few honest questions. Stop acting like you're above everyone because you're a fucking LEO. I'll tell you right now if a cop comes knocking on my door to grab my guns, that poor bastard is gonna die. It's a deadly serious question, and I think it's a good one. What do you think your non-AR15-owning partners would do? What would you do? Quit? Let a few people go free? Fight? Personally, I would fight. That would be the last straw. "I suggest you tread lightly, show a little respect, and knock off the wise-ass gramatics." Fuck you. Why don't you show a little respect to the people who pay your salary? Why don't you also lose the 'obey your master' mentality? You want people to talk to you like you're King fucking Tut or something. You are nothing but a bully. He just asked a few questions like you were a normal human being and a FRIEND, then you turn around with your little night stick and treat him like shit. I doubt some of you would have the courage to stand up to gun confiscations. You'd probably enjoy wielding your power onto other people. I wouldn't hestitate for a second to waste an arrogant prick like you trying to force your will on the rest of us. Why don't you go live in the middle east and you can be a henchman for some tyrannical royal government, so you'll feel confident that you are really better than the average person. Then the land of the free and the home of the brave where every man was created equal will come topple your silly little kingdom while you cower in the corner trying to hide in women's clothing. Fuck you. You guys are public servants, not public enforcers. Don't forget it.
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Damn! Too much coffee? [;)] To say what they were saying a little nicer: We really aren't the ones that you need to worry about - try asking the ones that didn't know how to shoot (and still don't) until they were LEO's. There are probably plenty cops out there that don't give a rat's ass about your gun rights, but you won't find them posting here. (not directed at you in particular) About the "I pay your salary" statement that we hear so often. First, cops pay their salaries, too (they also pay taxes). Second, the same can be said for many other jobs. What type of business are you in? Do you have customers? Your salary comes from consumers in one way or another. It's POSSIBLE that a cop might be helping to pay your salary, too. Also, the city I'm in right now - LEO's annual salary divided by the number of people living in the city = about 35¢ per resident of the city (annually). I'm sure if you're not satisfied, he could afford to give you a refund. CR
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 9:22:07 AM EDT
On thing is what the honest LEO thinks and another what he/she is told to do. Some LEOs used to be civilians who owned guns (like us) and they maintain that thinking/integrity (Second amendment, etc.) Others just turn against the people, I guess that the lure and luxury of wearing a shield blinds them (a badge, a gun and above the law..you know). I believe that most LEOs are in the first category, but behavior and responses from the second category give all the LEOS a bad rep. We can see that already just by reading the few responses to this topic. Those LEOs who know right from wrong and will stay in the right side... and those who are above the law who won't protect and serve, but like any organization Law enforcement is full of contradictions, premadonnas (spell?) and a hidden agenda, some LEOs will go against it and some will go in favor... I think this is an honest question not intended to offend the Honest LEOs, only those who will side with confiscation will take offense, I could be written a little different. I am not a cop basher just a witness... By the way...IBTL
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 9:38:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Black_Rifle: On thing is what the honest LEO thinks and another what he/she is told to do. Some LEOs used to be civilians who owned guns (like us) and they maintain that thinking/integrity (Second amendment, etc.) Others just turn against the people, I guess that the lure and luxury of wearing a shield blinds them (a badge, a gun and above the law..you know).
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My dealings with LEOs have been pretty poor in general. The US vs THEM mentality that all to often pervades their profession only serves to drive many to adopt the THEM mentality. I am, however, very pleased with the LEOs where I live currently. Very decent, easy to talk to and they seem extremely honest. I would do whatever it took to help them out. Hasn't been the case everywhere I've lived. Tough job. I wouldn't even consider doing it for a living. IBTL x 2
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 9:38:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2003 9:49:00 AM EDT by manintan]
For the love of Pete!!! That is the problem with written text as opposed to verbal conversation, it can be so easily misconstrued and taken out of context. Which is quite possibly what happened when I read the original post. I am not about to engage in a pissing match over this. The original post's verbage just hit me wrong. Looked like a wise-ass trying to start a flame war. This type of topic was posted on the BOTS forum a while back and got a good deal of posts similar to the one directed at me a few above. I did not want to see another one take up space on this board. Back to that taken out of context thing. I was not trying to make it a LEO vs. Non-LEO. To be more specific on my suggestion, Tread lightly because it is a volatile topic that has been brought up several times with less than desireable results. Using gramatics like "Mr. LEO" and "hmmmm?" sounds a little condescending to me, YMMV. I am more than happy to discuss this topic if it is done in an civil and adult manner, without a bunch of insults and threats being hurled like monkeys hurling shit at the zoo. I was not implying that all should bow before the almighty police officers, just be a little more tactful and respectful in your choice of wording and you will get the same in return, at least from me. I certainly do not appeciate the racist/fascist/supremacist remarks and inuendos. Kind of brings to mind the monkey at the zoo thing. I stated my opinion on the subject matter in my first post. edited for spelling
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 9:50:57 AM EDT
Just remember we as americans cop or not miliyary or not are bound by the constitution,and those who will not follow the law will get my ammunition first,like they say in newhampshire..live free or die.Ill hand over my legaly bought firearms when they get the ones from the crimminals first wich will never happen.Most cops know if we as citizens lose our guns cops will be next,ask the newjersey cop who because of a restraining order turned in his firearms and had an M1 carbine not registered as an assault weapon and now he could go to jail and lose his carreer,If unconstitutional confiscation ever happens it will be the shot heard round the world once more,in jeffersons words"the tree of liberty from time to time must be watered with the blood of both patriots and tyrants,if just 1/4 of our population has a gun thats 150,000,000 people they cant confiscate them all in one dat so if it starts tommorow and they get say 1,000,000 the next day 149.000,000 will be waiting for them and I dont think most military people will victimize their own people,and if they start shooting honest americans for not turning over property secured by our inalienable second ammendment,how many americans will stand for that,it will be instant civil war and thats what the anti gun crowd is afraid of,I dont think confiscation will ever happen its a can of worms no one in power in this country will be able to contain.just my .02
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 10:08:23 AM EDT
Sounds like to me that this topic asks a legit question. Some of you guys are so sensitive that you have inferred that the author is attempting to bash LEOs, and that is your problem, not the authors.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 10:11:45 AM EDT
It's happened in almost every country in the world, but here. If we don't keep recruiting new people into our sport, in a generation-or-two it'll happen here too. I get a kick out of all the tough talk - 90% of the "pry-my-cold-dead-fingers-off-my-gun" crowd would piss their pants and hand over their guns as soon as a guardsman stuck an M4 in their ear & asked for them.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 10:17:49 AM EDT
90% of the "pry-my-cold-dead-fingers-off-my-gun" crowd would piss their pants and hand over their guns as soon as a guardsman stuck an M4 in their ear & asked for them.
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It's a little late once you've got an M4 to your head. You'd be better picking 'em off from a distance while they run and hide with their cute little carbines and smg's.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 10:17:57 AM EDT
I am not here to protect and serve the individual, I am here to protect and serve the public at large. If it were to serve the individual, no one would ever be arrested because it would make them sad. If you want special service, go try burger king. You pay taxes to support every other service known to man, why not go tell the welfare department how to dish out money, the garbage man to put your lid back on, or the guys repaving the highway to hurry up. And to the posters who are just plain jackasses, I still wouldn't come for your guns, and it isn't because of your BS tough guy talk from behind your keyboard, its because of the RKBA!
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 10:19:13 AM EDT
Constitution? What Constitution?? Didn't you hear what the Colorado Supreme (being?) Court found -- The Colorado Constitution is Un-Constitutional! They found that an amendment that requires 2/3 vote to raise taxes was not Constitutional...part of the Constitution wasn't part??? Just think if some Liberal Democratic appointee to the US Supreme Court might do to the 2nd Amendment...oh, it's not Constitutional either... Like it or not, we are at War with ourselves now, not the future, Are we Solcialists that change the rules as we see fit, or do we follow the Constitution [b][size=5]AS WRITTEN?[/b][/size=5] Sorry for the Rant....
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 10:30:48 AM EDT
For the love of Pete!!! That is the problem with written text as opposed to verbal conversation, it can be so easily misconstrued and taken out of context. Which is quite possibly what happened when I read the original post.
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I apologize for going off on you like that. I just think all cops should treat us peasants with the same respect they want from us.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 10:31:25 AM EDT
Hey MONTANAMAN I talk tough because I am tough,thats the way I was brought up living in the city ,when some one threatens me or my family they end up on the floor.Dont go making judgements,YOU DONT KNOW ME personally ,like I dont know you,So they better get the M4 to my head before I pull the rifle out of the closet an arms reach away form me,of course that wont be a problem because my house security system will go off and its a system not dependent on the power that comes into my home wich could be easily shut off,its people like you who already think the fight is lost before anything happens, that wont fight for the constitution and whats right and just,and for you to say you love the tough talk before the M4 gets put to your head or pants pissn,you must be someone who will participate in raping your fellow americans when you have government approval,Ive been faced with death plenty of times in my life with situations ive been in,and Im still here,so when and if americans start victimizing other americans and disregard the constitution then Ill take it as a despotic government no longer protecting our inalienable rights and I will fight against it the same way the first patriots did,there are some of us willing to fight to keep our free way of life ,I guess your not one of those AMERICANS.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 11:58:34 AM EDT
I work in a rural farming community and I know Joe he shoots clays every week in the summer and pheasants ducks and geese in the fall along with filling his deer tags. I also like Joe I can visit with him when I run into him and we share differnt ideas/stories on hunting and fishing. I will not take his guns or violate the constitution as it is currently written. If Joe breaks the laws with those firearms as the laws are currently written I am obligated to enforce them which may include taking his guns. I would be in the same boat as all of the citizens if the feds wanted mass gun confiscations. Since the only difference between me and Joe is I am a cop and he is not. The Feds will use one of the branches of military service or an alphabet leo agency to do this. Just a hunch but I am pretty sure of it. As to wheather I quit my job when this happens/ed would depend on how the senario played out.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 12:38:23 PM EDT
They will say they received a 911 hangup call, search and take your stuff. Or they wont have a job. Pretty simple. LEOs pro gun or not have to feed their families. GG
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 12:38:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By colt_5_5_6: I work in a rural farming community and I know Joe he shoots clays every week in the summer and pheasants ducks and geese in the fall along with filling his deer tags. I also like Joe I can visit with him when I run into him and we share differnt ideas/stories on hunting and fishing. I will not take his guns or violate the constitution as it is currently written. [red]If Joe breaks the laws with those firearms as the laws are currently written I am obligated to enforce them which may include taking his guns.[/red] [i][blue]NOBODY WILL QUESTION THIS[/blue][/i] I would be in the same boat as all of the citizens if the feds wanted mass gun confiscations. Since the only difference between me and Joe is I am a cop and he is not. The Feds will use one of the branches of military service or an alphabet leo agency to do this. Just a hunch but I am pretty sure of it. As to wheather I quit my job when this happens/ed would depend on how the senario played out.
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I think this will be the normal position from local LEOs. The alphabet agencies will handle gun confiscation.
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 12:56:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gun Guru: They will say they received a 911 hangup call, search and take your stuff. Or they wont have a job. Pretty simple. LEOs pro gun or not have to feed their families. GG
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If the AWB isn't renewed (or made worse), will we stop hearing this for a while? I'm thinking gun rights are whittled away - so if we move a step back (in the right direction), will some of yall stop worrying so much about confiscation? I really don't think the people that respond to a 911 hangup call will be the same ones that confiscate your guns. And yeah, LEOs have to feed their families - but around here, they can just transfer to city garbage pickup without much loss in pay. CR
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 7:25:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2003 7:50:35 PM EDT by strongmad]
Originally Posted By SMGLee: IBTL
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What does IBTL mean? I see it means I Beat the Lock. But what does that mean? That you were able to merely read or reply to this post before it was locked? I guess that means that people have to be pretty wary about locks around here.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 7:33:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2003 7:52:01 PM EDT by strongmad]
Originally Posted By Sunset04: Why are y'all being so hard on the guy? He just asked a few honest questions. Stop acting like you're above everyone because you're a fucking LEO. I'll tell you right now if a cop comes knocking on my door to grab my guns, that poor bastard is gonna die. It's a deadly serious question, and I think it's a good one. What do you think your non-AR15-owning partners would do? What would you do? Quit? Let a few people go free? Fight? Personally, I would fight. That would be the last straw. "I suggest you tread lightly, show a little respect, and knock off the wise-ass gramatics." Fuck you. Why don't you show a little respect to the people who pay your salary? Why don't you also lose the 'obey your master' mentality? You want people to talk to you like you're King fucking Tut or something. You are nothing but a bully. He just asked a few questions like you were a normal human being and a FRIEND, then you turn around with your little night stick and treat him like shit. I doubt some of you would have the courage to stand up to gun confiscations. You'd probably enjoy wielding your power onto other people. I wouldn't hestitate for a second to waste an arrogant prick like you trying to force your will on the rest of us. Why don't you go live in the middle east and you can be a henchman for some tyrannical royal government, so you'll feel confident that you are really better than the average person. Then the land of the free and the home of the brave where every man was created equal will come topple your silly little kingdom while you cower in the corner trying to hide in women's clothing. Fuck you. You guys are public servants, not public enforcers. Don't forget it.
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Thank you for sticking up for me sir, but I do want you to know that when the gentleman you are addredding replied to this thead, I had a different subject line which was something to the order of "LEO: what will you do when they tell you to confiscate my guns" I originally used this line b/c it seemed like it would attract more interest and discussion, but after his comments, I changed it so that the thread wouldn’t become to emotionally loaded and that rational respectful discussion wouldn’t suffer. I didn’t want to see a cops vrs non-cops rhetoric match, I just have never really heard a frank discussion on this issue between the two. And though I know that it is not a generalizable poll of LEO’s b/c they are Ar15.com members after all, I figured they would have some useful insights into their non-blackrifle owning colleagues.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 7:40:30 PM EDT
(not directed at you in particular) About the "I pay your salary" statement that we hear so often. First, cops pay their salaries, too (they also pay taxes). Second, the same can be said for many other jobs. What type of business are you in? Do you have customers? Your salary comes from consumers in one way or another. It's POSSIBLE that a cop might be helping to pay your salary, too. Also, the city I'm in right now - LEO's annual salary divided by the number of people living in the city = about 35¢ per resident of the city (annually). I'm sure if you're not satisfied, he could afford to give you a refund. CR
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[ROFL2]
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 7:44:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By strongmad:
Originally Posted By SMGLee: IBTL
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What does IBTL mean?
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It means "In Before The Lock". Usually posted on particulary controversial topics that are likely to get locked. Back on topic: 1. This should've been posted in general. 2. Local cops will probably NOT handle gun confiscation if it ever comes to that. It will be an agency whose name is intials.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 7:46:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By strongmad:
Originally Posted By SMGLee: IBTL
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What does IBTL mean?
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[size=6]YOU HAVE WON![/size=6] The best post in this thread!
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 7:48:00 PM EDT
Originally Posted By strongmad:
Originally Posted By SMGLee: IBTL
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What does IBTL mean?
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YEA WHat he asked. For what it's worth, I think there will be no kicking in of doors. It'll be one piece of our rights at a time. I belive that most of all cops are just like the rest of socioty (sp?). That is they are just like the rest of us. Some bad, most good. Some are power hungry thugs, most are the kind we call upon, and apriciate, when they answer our call in time of need. So how does this apply to gun consfication? Some would, some wouldn't, some would quit and walk away. Point here is that there is diversity among all humans reguardless of profession.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 8:20:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By colt_5_5_6: I work in a rural farming community and I know Joe he shoots clays every week in the summer and pheasants ducks and geese in the fall along with filling his deer tags. I also like Joe I can visit with him when I run into him and we share differnt ideas/stories on hunting and fishing. I will not take his guns or violate the constitution as it is currently written. If Joe breaks the laws with those firearms as the laws are currently written I am obligated to enforce them which may include taking his guns.
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Well Mr Colt, first of all I like you stories about you and Joe. It is good to know that you are friendly w/ the local duck hunter type. But the reality of the situation is that Joe would probably not have a problem at all untill the black rifles have first been made contraband. There is a problem w/ you thought. Let me begin by making an obvious statement: The constitution is the higest law of the land. All legislation, particularly federal legislation, has to be in accord w/ the constitution. There are many times where laws can be passed (let alone court decisions) that are blatantly contrary to the constitution. Now I know that according to the origional intrepretation of the bill of rights, the B of R's only prohibited the federal gov from doing anything in these areas, while the states were left w/ the freedom to for example, start a State chruch (Just for that state) or to write their own constitution that prohibits having a state sponsored church in that state, or to enforce censureship laws, or even to regulate firearms. Later on, the bill or rights was interpreted by the and by the 14th amendment supreme court to mean that no power anywhere in the union, whether state of federal had the right to regulate these enumerated rights. The problem is that so much of the time, the legislature or the courts (state and federal) will go ahead and pass "laws" that violate the constitution and BofR's, both as it is written, and as it is interpreted in either of the two afformentioned ways. If there is need to ever change the constution, it is not supposed to be intrepreted or explained away, it is to be amended by a super-majority referendum. But, you should know that if there were ever confiscatory "law" it would be done w/o an amendment to the constitution, and so I ask you this: When the "law" which you are obliged to obey is contrary to the constitution (to which as a citizen I remind you, you have the highest allegence to) what will you do? Furthermore, what if the civil law truly was written as such that gun confiscation was mandated (ie there was such a constitutional amendment) don't you realize that would contridict the natrual law, the law to which you owe the highest allegence, not merely as a citizen, but as a man. Granted, reason allows some measure of arms control (even if that isn't in the constitution), for after all, we can't allow the unregulated ownership of WMD's, but I don't see how either the constitution as it is written, nor reason can ever justify the registration or the taking of my semi automatic rifles, weapons which are so especailly suited to not only self defence but to common defense, especially when, according to the US code, I am a member of the unregulated militia, and I should not be in anyway barred from owning such arms.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 8:29:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CR_OPSO: If the AWB isn't renewed (or made worse), will we stop hearing this for a while? I'm thinking gun rights are whittled away - so if we move a step back (in the right direction), will some of yall stop worrying so much about confiscation? I really don't think the people that respond to a 911 hangup call will be the same ones that confiscate your guns. And yeah, LEOs have to feed their families - but around here, they can just transfer to city garbage pickup without much loss in pay. CR
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You know, the thing is, that even if the AW ban is not replaced, there are moves w/i the government, particularly in the Bush Administration that in the name of "homeland defense" are seeking to make a national registry of all gun owners, and probably their guns. From there, it would/could be an eventual prohibitation/confiscation of semi auto rifles, or 50 cal, or magnification optics etc. Besides, there are already attempts at slipping a few gun control laws into bigger bills like the 'save the children housing bill y' or 'big goverment agricultural bill x' or the 'brave new world bill that your representitive won't turn down b/c he can't refuse all the good pork barrel benefits for his short sighted constituents in spite of the gun controll elements circumventing the democratic process power politics bill'
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 8:36:33 PM EDT
Go FUCK YOURSELF you anti Law Enforcment son of a bitch! You sound like a typical crimminal probably on probation or parole. I don't think we have anything to worry about with you though you probably can't shoot worth a shit!
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 8:45:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By sum-rifle: Go FUCK YOURSELF you anti Law Enforcment son of a bitch! You sound like a typical crimminal probably on probation or parole. I don't think we have anything to worry about with you though you probably can't shoot worth a shit!
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Excellent first post. [brick] CHRIS
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 8:48:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Cixelsyd:
Originally Posted By sum-rifle: Go FUCK YOURSELF you anti Law Enforcment son of a bitch! You sound like a typical crimminal probably on probation or parole. I don't think we have anything to worry about with you though you probably can't shoot worth a shit!
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Excellent first post. [brick] CHRIS
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[LOL]
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 9:14:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2003 9:26:14 PM EDT by JustL00king]
They will NOT come take your guns from you! They will be typical and say all guns are banned, turn them in. If we catch you it's a felony and a maximum 10,000 dollor fine and ten years in jail. LEO'S if they ban my guns, I will not keep them and live in fear of coming home one day and you have taken my guns then arrest me or break in to get me. I also won't give up my god given right to keap and bear arms. I have nothing aganst LEO's but you are the ones who have to enforce the stupid law IF it's ever passed. IF They ban all guns, then I will bring the fight to you. IN BEFORE THE LOCK! LIVE FREE OR DIE!
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 9:15:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/20/2003 9:19:05 PM EDT by strongmad]
Originally Posted By sum-rifle: Go FUCK YOURSELF you anti Law Enforcment son of a bitch! You sound like a typical crimminal probably on probation or parole. I don't think we have anything to worry about with you though you probably can't shoot worth a shit!
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Whoa! I guess you are talking to me. I think you may be getting a little excited buddy. These threads are for rational discussion, not pointless insults. As for you "anti law enforcement" charge, I will assure you that I believe in the rule of law (not of men) and the enforcement of those laws, when constitutional and in accord w/ the natural law, by men who serve out of a sense of justice and duty. BTW, I also reckognize that LEO's are people too, w/ natural rights, children etc, and I am grateful for their contributions as I am sure are 99% of ARF.com members. PS- I have never been in any trouble w/ the law, never even had a speeding ticket, but I appereate you demonization black rifle owners and constitutional conservatives
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