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Posted: 7/14/2003 7:12:02 AM EDT
I am looking at a STXXXXX series Colt. Is it a small front pivot and large fire control parts or vice versa?

Thanks

Max
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 9:56:00 AM EDT
Anyone?
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 1:44:49 PM EDT
Troy any other Colt Guru out there? Thanks Max
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 2:39:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/14/2003 2:42:15 PM EDT by Quarterbore]
You need to provide more detail... The Sporter Target is one of the transitional Colts that I beleave are all blue label guns. Because they are blue label guns you will find them in a number of varieties.... Some may have the large 2-head front pivot while others will have the two screw or one screw front small pivot. I owned a ST in the past that was drilled for the mil-spec push pin, but I don't think that was done at the factory. As for the trigger pins, most of these, as many pre-ban Green Label and Blue label Colts will have large trigger pins. It is a VERY RARE Pre-Ban Colt that has both a small pivot and small trigger pins. If you have a choice, the small pivot pin is the item you want most! From there, most Sporter targets will have the sear block. The block isn't a big deal but with the ST series you can see several types of block..... This is one of the most common of the Colts so it is very hard for anybody to give specifics without a full serial number. Even then, Colt did a lot of strange things during the ST series so the best way to know is to just look at the rifle!
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 7:29:02 AM EDT
quarterbore, Thanks for the info. It is a transitional model like you said. IT is ST00xxx made in the mid to late 80s. I am very interested in purchasing it. The guy says it is a large hole, small firing pins with all of the A2 stuff on it. It is unblocked. I have never had any Colt's before and I am interested in this one. Is it a big deal to have a large hole upper and lower? Does this anyway affect accuracy? Thanks again Max [marines]
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 8:37:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2003 7:41:10 AM EDT by Quarterbore]
Max, Unless the price is pretty good, I would look for a small pivot pin. The advantage with the small pivot uppers is that you can buy just about any upper and mount it on your lower and go. Just the same, there are adapter pins out there (I didn't like them as I owned a Colt R6600 years ago) that will alow you to use small pivot uppers. The small trigger pins are nice as you will have lots of trigger options and unblocked is something that a lot of people are after as who knows when you will want to commit a fellony and spend 25-yrs in jail (after making an LL or DIAS). [Note: If you buy a rLL or rDIAS just buy a new lower and save the hastle as anybody that can afford a rLL or rDIAS can afford another lower]. Personally, I like to look for lowers that have the raised fence that is drilled for the mil-spec-pivot pin. If it is not drilled, but it has the raised area, you can have any decent gunsmith drill the hole for about $20-$30. This will allow you to swap uppers without a screwdriver as this screwdriver dependance is a Colt oddity! Prices on pre-bans have been dropping and my favorite of all the pre-ban blue label colts is the Match HBAR. I think I have owned about six of these since about 1996 and I have one in my own safe now. Even with the Match HBARs you will find huge differences so you always need to ask for the specifics and look at the gun before you spend your money... Questions you need to ask and consider include the following: Large or Small Pivot? If Small pivot, 1 or 2 screw? If Small, raised fence where takedown spring and detent would go? If raised, is it drilled? Large or Small Trigger pins? Blocked or unblocked lower? From there, and if it matters to you, you can look at the various styles of sear block Colt has used over the years? You may ask to confirm if there is a block (there are a few small pivot unblocked lowers out there). As for describing the differnces between the differnt Colt sear blocks, I know I have seen two or three different styles on guns I have owned but it it is not something that I have tried to study in any great detail. Also, if you want to run a 22LR or 9mm conversion, you may need to file down the top of your sear block. The block prevents the use of an M-16 style carrier and most 9mm carriers are M-16 profile and I also recall that some people have needed to modify the block when using a ciener kit. The other thing a block can do is make it difficult if not impossible to use some trigger groups without the removal of the block. The KAC trigger is one trigger system that I thnk requires removal of the sear block to use BUT given that your blocked lower is most likely a large trigger pin lower you will also have a tough time finding a KAC trigger that will work as all KAC 2-stage triggers I have seen are small pin! I solve the trigger situation by using the Jewell 2-stage which works with the sear block and it is a great trigger plus it is available in small and larhe trigger pin sizes! Finally, confirm that the rifle you are buying is really a Pre-Ban. There are lots of places with serial numbers listed but their are lots of people out there that would love to have you pay pre-ban prices for a post ban they made look like a preban by making an illegal SAW! Oh well, now what was the question again?
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 10:50:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Quarterbore: Large or Small Pivot? If Small pivot, 1 or 2 screw? If Small, raised fence where takedown spring and detent would go? If raised, is it drilled? Large or Small Trigger pins? Blocked or unblocked lower?
View Quote
Don't forget to ask, "What SHADE of gray?"[;)] If I could go back in time, I'd look for a small hole too. My lower's large hole has been a problem when trying to fit various uppers. The Colt adapter pin is hit & miss- On my LMG upper, its flawless. Use the same adapter on one of my Colt M4A2 uppers, and then the rear take down pin is so tight you have to use a punch to drive it out. Not to mention what a pain it is to find the exact matching color gray. I said, "Go back in time" because being in Commifornia, I can't just sell it and buy a different lower. New or used, its all illegal to buy lowers here.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 3:26:41 AM EDT
Ok I will look for a small pin blue label rifle. Thanks for your input. Max
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 6:42:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/16/2003 6:45:13 AM EDT by ddc]
Maxell27, Check out the equipment exchange on this site; there are at least two match HBARs for sale: This one has a milspec push pin installed which as Quarterbore pointed out is a very desirable feature: http://www.jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=173316 This one doesn't specify pin size: http://www.jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=173566 Hope that helps.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 7:52:34 AM EDT
For what its worth: (Not Much) I bought a blue label colt hbar in 1992 nib. It is small hole. I removed the screw and bought from bushmaster a detent spring and push pin. In ten minutes I had fixed their politically incorrect decision and it now is very easy to remove in seconds. Just like the designer intended it to be. So it came with the hole already drilled and it is a raised fence mag well. It has that damn sear block but I have been told for $40 I can have it removed. Also, many others have pointed out why bother. It also has the large control parts.
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 6:27:19 AM EDT
Gents, I am very weak. I broke down and bought a Colt. I pick it up from the owner next week. It is a large pivot small fire control pins. It is a A2 with the Govt Barrel. I got it because it is as close as I can get to my issued weapon. I sold one of my preban Oly's for it. I got a good deal on it so I had to get it. I think I will keep it in the same configuration. I will make my other Oly an M4 with the RAS II. Thanks for all of your help. max [marines]
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 6:59:05 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/18/2003 7:36:01 AM EDT by Quarterbore]
Hey, You didn't make a mistake as long as you are happy! One item I strongly suggest you consider buying is a large pivot flattop upper or upper receiver if/when you see one. There is a company that was making new ones (I don't have a link handy) and you will see factory original large pivot flattop uppers from time to time. With one of these, combined with your A2 upper on the gun as you bought it, you can set yourself up with a huge versitility. Now, and I am teasing, you got this as it as close to your issue rifle as possible? Was your issue gun a Slab Side as I can't see how else this would be the same.... No offence, but I doubt you needed a screwdriver to swap uppers, did you? I still think than none of the Colts are real copies and I would rather have the push pin then mil spec trigger and I can ignore the block... Like I posted before, I had a Green Label R6600 AR-15A2 marked Colt and it was my first Pre-Ban. I used it for a few years and eventually decided to buy and sell trying lots of ARs over the years... Now, I have owned, used, and sold more AR-15s then I could list BUT after owning that first large pivot Colt, I have never bought another. Not that it's a bad gun... I just hated the screwdriver takedown... plus I have always had more uppers then lowers... and most uppers are small pivot! Enjoy your Colt!!! They are great rifles and it will work great and everything else I have posted is just an oppinion. If you never share an upper with this lower and you get a good fitting screwdriver you will not mind... just be careful not to mar the front pivot screw heads with a poor fitting screwdriver as it is easy to do... Regards, QB
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 7:24:24 AM EDT
Quarterbore, This rifle has the raised fence, no block, regular fire control pins and large front pivot and no bayo lug. My issued Colt M16A2 kept me alive in the desert. I am so glad I had that rifle. I already have a spare Colt Barrel with the bayo. I will also keep on the look out for a Colt Flatop upper. If you can give me any more pointers I will greatly appreciate it. Max [marines]
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