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Posted: 7/14/2003 5:51:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/14/2003 6:54:03 AM EDT by Quarterbore]
I was just visiting another forum and I saw struck by the numebr of people that are saying SELL YOUR PRE-BAN... DON'T BUY A PRE-BAN... THE BAN IS NEVER COMMING BACK.... PRE_BAN OWNERS WILL CRY....

While I hope to see the crime bill die with no new replacement, let's be honest that SIXTEEN MONTHS is quite a bit of time for things to change!

I for one want to be able to have an AR-15 carbine with the CAR stock, bayonet lug, and Flash supressor... BUT....

I SAID BUT!!!

The real advantage with a pre-ban is the abuility to use a silencer or register an AR-15 as a SBR and use the collapsable stock and flash supressor!



I like the 300 Whisper and I like the 9mm sub gun uppers and these really come into their element with a silencer. If the crime bill was to come back and I was foolish to sell off all of my Pre-bans then I will pay in blood to get another pre-ban to allow me the option of using a silencer in the future!



Pre-bans are the lowest prices I have seen since about 1998 and while I do not suggest that a person would buy a huge collection of them, I WOULD NOT suggest selling your only Pre-Ban because you think you can replace it cheaper later as later may never come!



If I didn't have a pre-ban, I would suggest that you consider buying at least one if you will ever want to use a silencer or register an AR-15 as a SBR in the future. I see the people that are dumping their Pre-Bans with the hopes of replacing them later with a less expensive new version as a gamble. Perhaps a smart bet, but a bet that does have a degree of risk!



I am playing it conservatively as while I had posted my last pre-ban for sale not that long ago, I sat back and thought about the impact selling this weapon would have on me if the crime bill would come back... and next time it is a perminant addition to the world we live in!



Just food for thought, but if this thing comes back or is ammended to remain alive you will never be able to have any of the configurations shown above!



Link Posted: 7/14/2003 5:58:26 AM EDT
Well put Quarterbore. You get an amen from me! I just purchased another one.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 6:10:11 AM EDT
I'm not sure where the AWB will go either so I've kept a couple of preban AR's. However, if I had say an SP1 I would be moving that preban as they are not very rare and, IMHO, not particularly desirable.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 6:10:16 AM EDT
Well, you could always buy a RR M16 or a registered DIAS and put that in a postban lower... then you can have all the "evil features" you want. :)
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 6:57:20 AM EDT
I think your right. I have a few prebans myself. I love them all, but I am selling an OLY preban so I can get a Colt Preban A2, which is close to my issued rifle. I also believe the only people that are driving up the price of rifles are shooters. Just look at how many ARs you have owned. Many of us are multiple AR owners. Just look at the Preban prices. They have all dropped since the market is flooded with them. I will not get rid of my rifles, no one knows what will happen in the future. I hope that the ban goes away and nothing more strict stands in it's stead. [marines] Freedom is not Free
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 7:21:13 AM EDT
Okay Guys (and Gals). Let's be honest. Not many of us really buys a pre-ban for its economic value. I own three AR15's. All are prebans. One is colt 9mm NIB. One is Bushmaster lower with Colt M4 16.1 inch barrel upper that has never been shot. I have a colt sporter preban lower with colt 14.5 M4 flat-top upper. That is my shooter. Others are to fondle for now. One preban Springfield M1A. I did not buy them because of their value. I bought them because I wanted them and the government said I could not in the future. I think very few think about pre-post 9/14/04 unless you want to buy an AR15 in preban confiq.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 8:31:27 AM EDT
I had been on the fence about selling my pre-ban, under the theory that when the ban goes away, I can put the telestock on any of my guns. However, there's a big "what if" factor there, as in "what if" the ban is renewed. I think if that happens, pre-bans are going to be more expensive than they have been. So the final decision was to not sell it. Maybe if there was some crystal-clear indication late next summer that the ban will be dead for good, I'd try to sell it then, but by that time I think the market will be flooded with pre-bans being sold by guys who {i]did[/i] buy them as investments.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 9:11:07 AM EDT
i'm holding on to mine. While i despise the democrats i am becoming increasingly angry at all politicians for the "tech" jobs being exported and the increase in the jobless rate. if this trend continues there may be a repeat of history with angry people leaving the republican party over jobs... and if the democrats gain strength there may be a continuation of the ban... i love my gun and won't sell it no matter how much/how little it is worth...
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 9:33:20 AM EDT
I would love to get a pre-ban sometime soon. But, I am in the position that the only place to get them around here is Fun Shows, and then you are looking at paying more that 2K, that doesn't seem right to me.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 10:19:19 AM EDT
Point in hand... I just walked by a TV in my lunch room at work and hear an advertisement for an upcomming special report on CNN Headline News tonight.... [size=4]AK-47 and the Assault Weapon Epidemic![/size=4] It is on tonight... CNN Headline News at 8PM (or at least that is what was advertised here in PA) I am glad to see that I am not the only person that isn't dumping their pre-bans. This is a chance for somebody to either make or loose a lot of money. Time will tell I guess?
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 1:14:04 PM EDT
I'm holding onto my prebans, in fact I bought another one today but I do think we have an excellent opportunity to reach September 2004 without any new legislation being passed. HOWEVER, we really need to keep the pressure on. You can bet that the antis are keeping the pressure on so and we have work twice as hard because precedence is on their side.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 1:54:27 PM EDT
The AWB will be replaced...probably with something even harsher.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 2:22:45 PM EDT
Lumpy knows what time it is !!!!!
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 2:31:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lumpy196: The AWB will be replaced...probably with something even harsher.
View Quote
I completely agree.I'd like to think it wouldn't and hope it doesn't but we can't all live in a fantasy world.With prices so low on prebans right now, i had to jump at the opportunity because it may be the last.I certainly couldn't go through life with an AR and not be able to put evil features on it [uzi]
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 2:58:23 PM EDT
I too am trying to pick up another Pre Ban or two. I look at it this way, there are several Colt Match HBARs out there right now for $1225 to $1,400. I do believe the prices will continue to come down as I don't think the ban will stay. Folks know that soon the Pre Bans are not going to be worth much more than any other USED AR15. If I buy one or two now at say $1,225 to $1,300 I have only spent about $200 or so more than what a Post Ban Colt would coat based on prices where I'm at. BUT I am assured that I can do what I want to in the future. In the grand sceme of things whats $200 or $300 anyway???
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 3:07:18 PM EDT
If they are banned again, the best you can hope for is that they will [red]LET[/red] you register them as NFA weapons. It won't remain status-quo. It will be either ALL or NOTHING.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 3:29:49 PM EDT
When have they ever given us back anything once it's been banned,pertaining to gun legislation?I only hope its not made worse.Remember,bush who i voted for is a politictan first and foremost if he wants to repeat.Just my thought.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 4:15:47 PM EDT
Is there that big a difference between pre and post ban? I am an AR15 noob; please be gentle. Why is a pre ban more desireable than post? Is it a clearance cut for the full-auto selector or something? TIA, jim
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 4:47:23 PM EDT
1)I do think the ban will sunset. 2) I bought my rifles for a number of reasons. RKBA, it is my hobby, MY 401K, etc. 3) I will gladly lose $500+ per lower to have back one day of preAWB. 4) I currently have no postbans, but will spend more than that $500 per copy on a small pile of lowers and parts kits SO fast if the ban does indeed go away. I want my rights back, and I will pay the blood tax to get them. 500+ a copy, no problem.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 5:52:54 PM EDT
You won't lose a dime unless you sell your AR after/if the ban expires...
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 6:07:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lumpy196: The AWB will be replaced...probably with something even harsher.
View Quote
I am in absolute agreement with my friend, the ban will sun set, it is the law, but what coming before or continue after 09/04 is going to be harsh. and please don't say they will never pass it, the democrap will just attach it to something that has to pass in order to get what they want. BUT!!!!! I am still saving my pennies, just in case the ban do sunset and we have a limbo between laws. of course, don't be expecting you will be getting the FN F2000, HK G36, and so on so forth, but it would probably enough time to get some magazines and maybe a receiver or two or five. I keep my finger crossed and prey every night.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 6:47:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By macman37: Is there that big a difference between pre and post ban? I am an AR15 noob; please be gentle. Why is a pre ban more desireable than post? Is it a clearance cut for the full-auto selector or something? TIA, jim
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Welcome, Jim. [wave] A great resource and starting point would be: [url]www.ar15.com/content/legal[/url] But to answer your questions in reverse order, "preban" and "postban" rifles are semiautomatic rifles with only cosmetic differences, having [u]nothing[/u] to do with being "full-auto," or "full-auto selectors." A "preban" is a semi-automatic rifle that is capable of accepting a detachable magazine and has at least 2 "evil" features, such as pistol grip (the default for ARs), collapsible stock, bayonet lug, flash suppressor, etc, and was assembled as such [i]before[/i] [url=http://www.ar15.com/content/legal/]9/13/94[/url]. After that date, adding any of those features to an AR-type rifle would be a felony. So, today's ARs is a semi-automatic rifle that is capable of accepting a detachable magazine, and does [u]not[/u] have at least 2 "evil" features, and is referred to as a "post ban." Aside from the loss of the [u]functionality[/u] (as well as the cool-factor [8D]) that a collapsible stock or flash suppressor would give you, as Quarterbore mentioned, silencers are also only allowed on pre-bans. Again, I'd suggest checking the [url=http://www.ar15.com/content/legal/]AR15.com legal section[/url] for more (i.e., better) information. -ARgue [:E]
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 7:04:47 PM EDT
it's going to get worse! Been stocking up on prebans. Better safe than sorry.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 7:09:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mikepenn33: it's going to get worse! Been stocking up on prebans. Better safe than sorry.
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Yea, don't I know... I just hope your taking good care of my baby!
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 7:26:04 PM EDT
Yes I am.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 7:38:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Quarterbore: The real advantage with a pre-ban is the abuility to use a silencer or register an AR-15 as a SBR and use the collapsable stock and flash supressor!
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Silencers are illegal in Missouri anyway, so the only incentive for me to buy a pre-ban would be the flash supressor and/or collapsable stock. I'll just gamble that there will be a gap in AWB type legislation and be ready to send my rifle to KKF rather than spend the extra money on a pre-ban.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 8:22:04 PM EDT
Not getting rid of my prebans, no fricken way !! I bought them to shoot and enjoy, not for an "investment". I would gladly lose some value in them to have our rights restored. I look at it this way...**IF** the ban goes away, think of the value lost as the price you paid to have them for the ten years that the ban was in place. A great value in my book.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 9:43:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SMGLee:
Originally Posted By Lumpy196: The AWB will be replaced...probably with something even harsher.
View Quote
...I am still saving my pennies, just in case the ban do sunset and we have a limbo between laws. of course, don't be expecting you will be getting the FN F2000, HK G36, and so on so forth, but it would probably enough time to get some magazines and maybe a receiver or two or five. I keep my finger crossed and prey every night.
View Quote
Of course, the '94 Crime Bill doesn't effect the '89 firearms importation ban, so no other new/different/exotic toys (unless foreign mfg's opt to produce them here - a highly improbable event). At best, the current scheme will remain. At worst, confiscation - long the goal of many a liberal politician - will ensue - & so will a defining moment in U.S. history. Could be a 'white horse' moment.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 9:47:52 PM EDT
If the market is being flooded with pre-bans, what can a guy buy a preban lower, or complete lower, or complete rifle for. I have an SP1, but that damn big front hole pisses me off, plus I don't have the FA. BTW, though there maynot be a whole new AW bill passed into law, you can bet those MF'rs are going to try to put certain aspects of their agenda into giant other bills. That is one thing about democrats, they make huge-ass convaluded bills into which they slip their pet projects and bypass the self-representitive public debate process. I was reading some version of a "no child left behind" bill that included an ban of hi-cap mags, which is the most important thing along w/ thread muzzle and various muzzle accessories. There were a few other things that included an examination of whether or not gun companies market to minors and whether this contributes to gun violence with youth. GIMME A FRIGGIN BREAK. Anyway, I'll keep praying and contacting my representives by actual mail.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 9:49:38 PM EDT
Quaterbore, is that a 7" 300 whisper SBR? Nicccce! I would like to get into that someday, probably more as a target rifle. If that is a 5.56 upper, what kind of ammo do you use in it for self-defense?
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 9:57:37 PM EDT
Master Blaster, forgive me for my ignorance, but what is a white horse moment?
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 10:45:39 PM EDT
I completely agree with Quarterbore. I post on other boards about the AWB and no one gives a damn. I may get one response. Everyone feels it doesn't apply to them since they don't own an evil gun. The so called Conservatives out there don't give a damn either. You going to vote for Joe Republican even if he fucks you? You gonna vote 3rd party, or for the socialist Democrat instead? Likely Dean. The Republicans KNOW they can sodomize you and you'll still vote for them because you have nowhere to go. I sometimes think it would be better in the long run to vote for the socialist, so the outcome will show itself, and the real men can stand and face the evil, or bend over. If you don't believe this, who'd you vote for for President, the man who was for or against a perscription drug program? Gore was for, Bush was against, what do we have now? It's Two card monte. Do you own guns for a financial cause, or for a hobby/livelyhood? Personally, I don't sell guns, never will unless I own a shop. -Steve
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 1:04:14 AM EDT
If I had to make a prediction, my vote would be on all "assault-weapons" going NFA, and the ugly reappearance of the "arsenal licensing and taxation." Anyone remember that beauty of a concept from a few years back?
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 1:09:16 AM EDT
In our socialized nation, I'm rather suprised we haven't been given manditory liability insurance for every firearm. Don't you feel thankful when you pay your taxes like Bill Clinton? You hear that asshole say that? I wonder if that's why he tried to depreciate dirty underwear. -Steve
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 6:59:14 AM EDT
I'm holding on to mine; it's not worth gambling on what politics may or may not take place over the next year or so. There is just no way to predict what will happen between now and then.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 8:29:41 AM EDT
I bought some prebans just to shoot and others because they were rare. AWB or no, in my eyes the value of a "Colt Carbine" roll mark isn't going down. That carbine is one of about 300 in this country. My "Gov't Model" is a rare rifle as is my "Gov't Carbine." These three are rare no matter what any politician does, and the "value" remains as far as I am concerned. YMMV. My "Sporter" lightweight and "AR-15" roll marks are not so rare and they will be affected. But so what. The ban is going away, no ifs ands or buts. But as far as something replacing it? Who knows? What I get sick of hearing is Rush Limbaugh telling people that they are "wasting their vote" if they vote for someone other than GW or don't vote at all. That is exactly what BOTH ESTABLISHMENTS want their loyalists to think. Democrats go to the right to pick up votes because they know that their ultra-liberals have no where to go. Ditto for the Republicans. If every gun owner in the country called or wrote their republican congressman and told them that they were going to vote against them AND the president if another AWB were to pass, that might just shake something up. In other words, the republicans in the house would KNOW they were going to lose their seats if another ban passed and that might do it.. Just to clarify, regardless of how any individual congressman votes re a new ban, DUMP THEM ALL if one passes - regardless of whether it was a stand alone bill or an attachment. I would almost bet that if every republican congressman got 100 phone calls saying that, that might take care of it then and there.
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