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Posted: 7/11/2003 11:04:03 PM EDT
Know any good cheap ones?


How about those rails that you can attach to your existing handguars...they seem to be an effective inexpensive addition to an M4...


What do you think / recommend?
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 11:07:37 PM EDT
As soon as I get off my ass and do it, I'm getting an Advanced Armament rail for my handguards, along with their vertical grip. The RAS, RAS II, etc. are great, but for adding only a vertical grip, they really don't justify the cost, IMHO.
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 11:20:04 PM EDT
I've got the Advanced Armament Corp. Vert Grip as well as the Rail mounted to my M4 Handguards. 1000s of rounds. Outstanding control, balance, pointability. Well worth the money.I'd highly reccomend it. [url]www.advanced-armament.com[/url]
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 11:36:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2003 11:38:31 PM EDT by Lumpy196]
Originally Posted By Zardoz: The RAS, RAS II, etc. are great, but for adding only a vertical grip, they really don't justify the cost, IMHO.
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Id have to respectfully disagree on that Zardoz. The RAS offers SIGNIFICANTLY better cooling than standard plastic handguards. Additionally, if your verticle foregrip takes a good hit with an RAS, the grip will give. With rails bolted on handguards, the handguard is more likely to give way.
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 11:37:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/11/2003 11:40:25 PM EDT by ArmyInf]
GG&G offers a good quality solution as well: [url]www.gggaz.com/products/ar15ufir.php[/url] Zardoz has a point, for mounting just a foregrip, something like this is great. If you plan to add optics, lights, aiming devices, etc, then it would be worth while looking into a RAS or SIR. Lumpy has a good point too, though with heat dissipation and overall durability...
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 4:57:58 AM EDT
I agree with the Zardoz, if all you want to add is a grip than one of the accessory rail strips from GGG or AAC is the least expensive and effective solutions. Also, if you are a civilian shooter which 99.9% here are, all you need are two rails. One at the 6 o'clock position for grips and lights, and a 12 o'clock possibly for a forward mounted optic (scout). Tell me what else you would want to add? If economy is in the equation than the above rail strips are the best answer. Should you take a bump serious enough to damage the bolts and handguards, you may damage them but they are not functioning parts so it won't be a show stopper. ~$300 for a RAS/RIS/SIR/MWS is unjustifiable for just a vertical grip. You could spend $50 for the rail strip plus swiss grip from AAC and left over you could buy a desent optic. For a little more money the M-33 Fobus handguards are also a good deal and a bit sturdier since the rails are integrally molded. The verdict is out, so it is said, so shall it be.
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 7:58:28 AM EDT
If you don't have a muzzle brake to deal with, and can get the barrel off yourself, either the FIRSH system from Olympic, or the Fulton Armory Liberator II handguards are a good, lower priced alternative to a SIR. At around $125, they're both solidly made, and will serve their purpose well. The downside is you have to be able to do the work yourself; any gunsmithing charges will detract from the overall value. Still, if you can get the smith work done cheap locally, it might be worth it. I put the Lib. IIs on my Model 1 kit, and I'm quite happy with them so far. I've got the M44 Fobus handguards on my M4, they seem okay for mounting a light and a grip, but I don't know how solid they are when push comes to shove. IronBalaclava, how does that Advanced Armament foregrip mount? I'm asking because the M44 handguards have holes between the rails, so any thing that goes up into the rail won't have any place to bite. If it clamps on, it might work though.
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 8:20:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2003 8:28:24 AM EDT by Zardoz]
Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Originally Posted By Zardoz: The RAS, RAS II, etc. are great, but for adding only a vertical grip, they really don't justify the cost, IMHO.
View Quote
Id have to respectfully disagree on that Zardoz. The RAS offers SIGNIFICANTLY better cooling than standard plastic handguards. Additionally, if your verticle foregrip takes a good hit with an RAS, the grip will give. With rails bolted on handguards, the handguard is more likely to give way.
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Good points, Lumpy! (tryin' to get me to spend some cash, are ya? [;)]) Actually, since this IS my one-and-only long gun, thus my "SHTF" carbine, the durability alone of the RAS may indeed justify its' cost.
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 9:14:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/13/2003 8:38:14 AM EDT by leadfoot]
I originally had a rail mounted to my M4 handguards but I upgraded my handguards to use the SIR system and a Surefire M900 for a more durable setup. I know it's hard to justify some options when you're focusing on cost vs. feature but I try to base all of my upgrades on needs.
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 11:49:31 AM EDT
Zardoz, I agree that on first glance most people think "Im paying $300 for a glorified handguard thats heavier." But in use, for me at least, the RAS has proven to be a lot more. And I like to look at everything from the HARD, SERIOUS use viewpoint. For a range gun that has no intent as a life and death gun, the bolt on rails would provide you with all the you need. Just trying to share what little I have that can pass for wisdom [;)]. Spending the money is up to you.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 11:06:36 AM EDT
Forgive my novice, but what is the RAS? I'm also not too fimiliar with some of the other products you guys mentioned....what are some web-addresses? Last but not least, i DO have a Mini Y-comp on my M4...What do i have to avoid? Should i refrain from putting lasers/lights at 3' or 9' o'clock on my rifle? I once saw a laser sight that mounts infront of my front sight, where can i find it? and is it a good idea with a Y-Comp? Thanks alot!!
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 11:29:44 AM EDT
I would love to have a RIS, but it's so hard for me to spend $300+ dollars for it.... I have the Advanced rail and grip...IMO, it is the best on the market bar the Knight's set up....
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 11:38:05 AM EDT
Lockedon. First off avoid 'LASER sights' the ones we can buy are glorified toys and have little to no real value. You're better off spending your money on good Training, and a decent optic like an Aimpoint or EO Tech. BTW I just ran 2 carbine courses with my M33 handguards (with a built in rail) and the Fobus forward grip to go along with it. It held up very well and its lighter (not to mention cheaper) than the RIS/RAS systems.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 1:22:37 PM EDT
LOCKDON Look into First Samcos' M44 or M33 handguards the former has 4rails and the latter has two rails , I know they are not aluminum but we're in a new age pal, I didn't like/trust the idea of hi-density polymer , but what the heck cant be all that bad if NASA proclaims it advantages. I was kinda of skeptical but I had to take the plunge if I wanted to find out if they would stand up to the other 4 rail systems - yes I called the M44's a system and at first I was just glad they fit , then I got worried that they will distort or melt when I started shooting but they came thru with flying colors they dissapated the heat very well the barrel was smoking I could have branded cattle with it but the M44's as they should be were not hot at all. I took a B-Square scope ring I had laying around and I torqued it down so tight on one of the rails that the 7/64 allen wrench twisted !! And there were no noticable gouges in the rail. I've had some response not to put an optic on them , well for common sense reasons I dont/haven't, the mount on my Eotech is like the bolt in my rifle essential. A forward grip on them holds very well, no lateral movement which may occur with the Advanced Armament since it attaches to the handguard and the pulling my cause the grip to dance in your hand. I had Advanced Armament on the phone to oder the rail and grip but... with shipping etc, I spent another $90 bux got 3 extra rails and the grip , I know its kinda of pricey but if the Advanced stuff is not rock solid its pretty much useless the whole deal ran about a hundred and a half .
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 3:41:32 PM EDT
I am a recent convert, from M33's to an M4 RAS. For months I thought they were the ticket, until the M33's started loosening up on me. I made the standard JB Weld repair to tighten 'em up, did'nt last too long. I got my RAS today and mounted it along with the Knight's foregrip. No comparison. Rock solid, I don't see this coming loose. Save, scrimp, cheat or lie, get an RAS, RIS, SIR or any other solid mounted rail system. You won't be sorry in the long run.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 4:40:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BBossman: I don't see this coming loose.
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Please don't give it to DevL to test...
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 6:10:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/19/2003 6:17:00 AM EDT by dennysguns]
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 7:23:32 AM EDT
I was hoping to be content with the GG&G UFIR, until my handguard cap came loose and allowed the entire handguard(s) to rotate. Don't have this problem with the RAS, then SIR. Chris
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 3:32:05 PM EDT
Ive seen far to many loose plastic handguards to ever trust bolting things to them that require stability... But thats just me. I abuse my guns.
Link Posted: 9/14/2003 12:30:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/14/2003 12:36:12 PM EDT by flashbackk]
I picked up a graphite vertical grip from the SOG guys at the Pontiac show last week. Just emough of a rail to mount the grip and the price is right. Might be what you are looking for. It will do me untill I decide to go the RAS route. Good guys to deal with too. I had to drill 2 holes through the M4 heatsheilds. Very solid. http://www.sogarmory.com/ProductsList.aspx?CategoryID=50
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