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Posted: 7/10/2003 11:08:46 AM EDT
I heard somewhere that in an AAR from Afghanistan that a number of our troops where KIA/WIA as a result of fire on our muzzle flashes. Perhaps we'll hear more of the same out Iraq, as well. If true, seems we're long overdue for a solution. Comments? Anything to this story?
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 11:24:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/10/2003 12:17:42 PM EDT by flash-hider]
I don't think it's possible to complete eliminate muzzle flash (except with maybe a sound suppressor) The AK's that the Afghani's are using don't even have flash hider. My AR has an A1 flash hider and all you can see is a few sparks coming out of the muzzle.
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 11:28:54 AM EDT
Stick on the old original 3-prong. If you want to spend some money, the Vortex.
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 12:51:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 1:40:07 PM EDT
My understanding is a flashhider is to reduce flash for the shooter not the enemy
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 3:06:18 PM EDT
I can say for a fact that the M16A1 and M14 have very little flash at night. Depending on ammo, a .223 without a flash suppressor can have a bright huge flash at night.
Link Posted: 7/10/2003 7:40:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 4:46:42 AM EDT
Because a post-ban with no muzzle device and surplus ammo can make a 12" ball of fire which imprints purple on your retina....or so I hear. Side benefit: no need for a sound/light distraction device. ;)
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 6:39:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By blikbok: Because a post-ban with no muzzle device and surplus ammo can make a 12" ball of fire which imprints purple on your retina....or so I hear.
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Switch to Black Hills 68gr or 75gr I can attest to their almost non-existant flash (just a small dull orange glow).
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 6:54:34 AM EDT
But how else will I ensure I have clear shooting benches to both sides of me unless my rifle is shooting flame? ;) Seriously, glad to hear. I figured commercial ammo might be lower flash than military surplus, but I haven't had much range time in the dark recently. Thanks.
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 3:31:59 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 552bigdog: My understanding is a flashhider is to reduce flash for the shooter not the enemy
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then you've never shot using a Vortex or Phantom.
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 11:23:20 AM EDT
Flash is a fact of life. You can lower it but there are tradeoffs in blast noise and accuracy that have their own threats. A suppressor is a good tool to reduce it but there are problems with weight and durability. Rats. It wouldn't be surprising if flash gave away a position.
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 12:42:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mach6: I heard somewhere that in an AAR from Afghanistan that a number of our troops where KIA/WIA as a result of fire on our muzzle flashes. Perhaps we'll hear more of the same out Iraq, as well. If true, seems we're long overdue for a solution. Comments? Anything to this story?
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I think as a former soilder that it's sort of wash. M240's and M249's both have muzzle flash and tracers. There was a poster in my company someone made it said: "Tracers work both ways" but more to the point if you shoot your going to give away your position. I'm sure I'm not the only one to be at range (military) at see 50 M4's, 18 m249's or 6 240's going at once it looks like your striking a Zippo at your position. I guess I'm being negative about this when I should be rallying for a fix. Glockdog Airborne!!
Link Posted: 7/13/2003 1:03:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By fixer:
Originally Posted By 552bigdog: My understanding is a flashhider is to reduce flash for the shooter not the enemy
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then you've never shot using a Vortex or Phantom.
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Link Posted: 7/14/2003 5:39:42 AM EDT
At night, with some ammo, from a plain crowned barrel, there will be a orange-yellow flash about the size of a damned basketball. The A2 flash hider does OK on a 20", and as stated above, the shorter the barrel, the more flash. The 3 prong or Vortex will kill the flash on a 16". I have not personally used a Phantom, but have been told it is as effective as the Vortex. I am perfectly happy with three prong. In about 16 months, all of my AR's will be so equipped.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 9:00:38 AM EDT
Also, the FH can't do much about the 165dB explosion. The ear will be attracted to the noise and the eye will find even the smallest lightsource on subsequent shots. I can agree with the Vortex comment. I have compared the four-prong on a 16" side-by-side with a plain 20" and it's an incredible difference.
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