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Posted: 7/6/2003 9:32:06 AM EDT
What do you folks think about an upper in 7.62x25 Tokarev? Would it be possible to build and still use USGI mags?

The only reason I have for wanting this is just to have a rifle in that caliber. To my knowledge there aren't many rifles available in 7.62x25. I know FAC had some PPSh clones out, but I have heard they had major issues....sooooo, whaddayuh think!!!!!!!!

JH94
Link Posted: 7/6/2003 10:01:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By JarHead94: What do you folks think about an upper in 7.62x25 Tokarev? Would it be possible to build and still use USGI mags? The only reason I have for wanting this is just to have a rifle in that caliber. To my knowledge there aren't many rifles available in 7.62x25. I know FAC had some PPSh clones out, but I have heard they had major issues....sooooo, whaddayuh think!!!!!!!! JH94
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A few guys on the rimfire/pistol caliber forum were working on one. USGI mags? Probably not, unless you used a trashed mag as a housing for a Tokarev pistol mag, but it would only be 8rnds. The general consensus is that you need to use PPS43 mags, the PPSh41 mags have small "wings" on top that preclude entry into the mag well. A 2 piece mag-block like the early Colt style is needed also, the front part needing to be modified because of the curve of the PPS43 mags. The Cz24/26 mags are too wide at the back to fit also. If you had a side feed upper made (STEN style) then all mag issues go away, but then you'd have to do much more work (upper from scratch, new bolt, etc).
Link Posted: 7/6/2003 4:38:38 PM EDT
Thanks Riff.... I kinda thought the magazine would be the problem. I looked in the pistol caliber forum for a topic on this, but I couldn't find anything. Maybe some of the guys that are working on this project will read this thread and chime in. JH94
Link Posted: 7/6/2003 4:51:38 PM EDT
Couldn't you simply use a 9mm mag? The 30 is basically a necked down 9mm.
Link Posted: 7/6/2003 5:02:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By cyoungso: Couldn't you simply use a 9mm mag? The 30 is basically a necked down 9mm.
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The overall length is greater for 7.62x25 than 9x19. Plus the bottlenecked shape means that doublestack mag needs to be curved (like the PPSh41 or PPS43) or wedge shaped (Cz24, Cz26). I guess a 9x19 subgun mag _could_ work if you handloaded ammo with short stubby light bullets but you'd have to have a custom mold made as .30 cal bullets are usually for rifles. 7.62x25 usually uses a 86+/- grn bullet but a resized .311 bullet 71grn intended for .32acp might work. Is it possible to resize fmj bullets, or just cast lead? The 7.62x25 main attraction is pure bullet speed & you'll run into leading issues trying to push a cast bullet at the factory speed (86gr @1500fps). Maybe a superlight .30 cast with a gascheck.
Link Posted: 7/6/2003 8:26:08 PM EDT
We're building our third upper in this caliber, the first one went to Cav Arms. Their new lower accepts the CZ24/26 mag and works like a champ. Indeed, with other lowers, the Ppsh43 mag is the way to go, but it does require the custom 2 piece block. The other way is to load with the shorter bullets, the Hornady 90 gr HP/XTP works, as well as the 110 gr FN used on the 30 Carbine. These rounds will then work in the Sten mag, but you loose the appeal of the cheap surplus ammo. The standard AR mag will not work best we have been able to tell. Marty
Link Posted: 7/7/2003 4:10:03 PM EDT
Marty, I have been looking at CavArms website, and can't find any info on the new lower. Are they in production and will they ever be available for sale. Also, how expensive are the Cz24/26 mags? What all will need to build a rifle in this caliber. Thanks for chiming in and telling me about your upper.....when will it be available? Oh...and how much? JH94
Link Posted: 7/7/2003 7:41:27 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JarHead94: Marty, I have been looking at CavArms website, and can't find any info on the new lower. Are they in production and will they ever be available for sale. Also, how expensive are the Cz24/26 mags? What all will need to build a rifle in this caliber. Thanks for chiming in and telling me about your upper.....when will it be available? Oh...and how much? JH94
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The Cav Arms lower in question is their new version that was designed to take the 45 ACP mags (Grease Gun IIRC). They had them at SHOT, so I would think they would have them for sale. Check with Doug at Cav Arms, he ordered the Tokarev barrel. The CZ mags run around $15 or so, the place that sells them is Centerfire Systems (800-950-1231) To build an upper in this caliber, we typically rebarrel a normal 9mm upper - the RRA version works well. Can't help you with the mag block part, however, and for this reason, we have only done a few for some folks who could work around that or understood the magazine problem. Therefore, in terms of availability, these are at this time not really something worth pursuing heavily, until the magazine/ejection part is resolved. Sorry to disappoint Marty
Link Posted: 7/7/2003 8:21:38 PM EDT
tracking
Link Posted: 7/8/2003 6:48:05 AM EDT
If you want to make a mini-whisper and use heavy bullets, you could use a M1 carbine magazine. But if you are using heavy bullets, I don't know if you can retain the blowback. If it wouldn't work with blow back, you might as well step up to a 300 whisper. Or if you want to retain standard 86 grain RN ammo, you could just take the M1 magazine apart and have a plastic spacer put in. Of course you could do the same with a AR15 mag and have bolt hold open. You can make 7.62x25 brass from 223 rem. The taper isn't much so I think it would feed fine. But it would be much easier to make a plastic filler block for a 20 round AR15 mag because it is straight. Have to make a new follower, but that wouldn't be hard.
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