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Posted: 7/1/2003 1:33:07 PM EDT
I am going to visit my employer's offices for a few days in another state (where my CCW permit is valid). The company has a no-firearm policy in their handbook. I can conceal my full-size firearm fairly well underneath a button down and khaki's in all likelihood without being detected. I could:

- Leave the firearm in the car and not risk anything
- Conceal the firearm and hope that nobody touches me in a precarious place
- Ask my employer for permission to bring the firearm with me, at which point if they say No then I will likely be "kept an eye on".

Thoughts? How important is everyone's second amendment rights to them when it comes to your employer.

Link Posted: 7/1/2003 6:16:41 PM EDT
I am in a profession where I can get a job with another company within 24 hours. If they won't let me carry, then their competitors will.
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 6:32:49 PM EDT
Leave it in the car.
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 6:45:22 PM EDT
If your car is going to be in a fairly secure place, or if you have a way of securing your firearm in your car, then just leave it in the car. I do this everyday, but I also work at a shop that is in the middle of farm country.
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 6:46:42 PM EDT
Man, I thought my job was bad. At least I don't have to go in packin'! [:D] Seriously, I'd just lock it up in the trunk.
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 9:11:12 PM EDT
I agree. Just lock it up in the car.
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 9:32:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 10:09:40 PM EDT
SinistralRifleman, obviously you are left handed, but that has nothing to do with my reply. I would avoid a brief case, this is because one might steal one. I would instead use a Bible case with foam cutouts inside. A criminal will not look at one twice.
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 10:42:23 PM EDT
any zipper planner works good too.
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 11:06:18 PM EDT
When I open up the shop in the morning I'm not supposed to be alone, yet no other employees are scheduled to work that early in the morning (I usually show up around 0500 and the crew gets in at 0900). The boss says that if anything happens and I'm alone, HE will get fired--alrightythen schedule some people in! In the mean time I pack when I'm setting the place up and discreetly sneak off to my car to put away the heater when the other blokes show up. If something bad does happen, and I do happen to come out on top of the situation I'm pretty sure I'll be fired...
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 11:41:15 PM EDT
First off, with very few exceptions*, you don't have 2nd Amendment rights on company property. It's the company responsibility to maintain a safe workplace by the means they decide are necessary and proper. If you can't work within that you are free to find another job elsewhere. Therefore if you are found violating company rules and you know the rules and are terminated, well you paid yer money and took yer chances. (*Don't come rushing in with a single state exception or similar blather, for the purposes of the answer it don't matter.) That said, I have considered doing it at a part-time job I have been approached about. Depending on the circumstances, I would want to do it. ("Night Manager" if I had to do a cash drop it would be at the other end of the strip mall and I would probably walk to/from work) If I had cash issues I would want to do it. If no cash, probably wouldn't. In the situation you mention, a threat assessment would probably tell you there is no real problem and risking your job over it isn't worth it. When I carry a pistol with me in the car and will be leaving the car where I can't reaonably keep an eye on it, I lock the gun case through the handles to a structural member with a big U bike lock.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 12:12:33 AM EDT
My job has a no guns policy. But then so does my state.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 9:46:49 AM EDT
I never carry a gun.... anywhere I have to pass through a metal detector. Since I don't work in or visit any such places I always carry a gun. I am fortunate to live in a CHL state although under article 2 that shouldn't be necessary. I do look for the proper signs prohibiting carry and if I see one I scratch that establishment off my list. When I get home or somewhere convenient I let them know they've lost a customer and the reason why. Anyway, no one can decide for you, you have to do what you think best. Good luck.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 9:50:26 AM EDT
I would have to consider not even working there.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 10:03:30 AM EDT
I was fired for having a handgun in my CAR. NOT in the building, but in my car in a PUBLIC parking lot. Someone heard me and several co-workers talking about shooting after work and I was asked (after being searched by police officers BTW) if I had a firearm. I have a CCW but was NOT packing at work, so I admitted that I did have a firearm in my car. Wrong move! The company fired me for violation of the company weapons policy (????). They have since re-written the employee hand book to make even TALKING about guns a violation of policy that will result in immediate termination. Employees are encouraged to report any such activity. So, I'll pack from now on... If the company doesn't like it, tough!
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 10:47:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By LiveFire: The company fired me for violation of the company weapons policy (????). They have since re-written the employee hand book to make even TALKING about guns a violation of policy that will result in immediate termination. Employees are encouraged to report any such activity.
View Quote
What company is that? I want to be certain to never do any business with them or in any way increase their profitability. I'd prefer to actively work to promote and use competitors actually, and wouldn't mind letting them know just why.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 10:57:56 AM EDT
NTT/Verio Nippon Telephone and Telegraph Verio is their internet division in the US. They provide hosting for web sites all over the world. They also resell branded products, so they are usually hidden behind company names such as Bell South and many other baby bells. Very anti-gun Japanese owned company.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 11:27:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/2/2003 11:28:14 AM EDT by jzdziarski]
Was this in America the event occured? Feel free to forward me some email addresses for them. My other business has a lot of clout in the Internet industry, so I'd like to send them a letter.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 11:49:45 AM EDT
I would suggest a BlackHawk or Eagle Concealed Carry Attache case as an effective way to carry at work daily, however, I cant comment on its effectivness [;)]. The worst thing that my work can do to me for violating a no weapons policy, is fire me. The worst thing that could happen to me for not carrying, is to die. I can get another job. Until my work, or any work, who openly wants to deny their employees the right to protect themselves, ESPECIALLY those who hold State issued concealed weapons permits, decides to provide an armed guard, who has the same level of training or higher as myself, and the same level of armament, to escort me for the entire day, and provide adequate safe storage for my weapon so as to not have to leave it in my vehicle, or provide me the same escort to and from work and home every day, then I suppose the risk of simply getting fired isnt that bad. But again, I wouldnt know about that.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 11:56:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jzdziarski: Was this in America the event occured? Feel free to forward me some email addresses for them. My other business has a lot of clout in the Internet industry, so I'd like to send them a letter.
View Quote
I don't want to hijack the thread but, yes it was in America... The grand ol' US of A... Verio was an American Company with American values when I started there... They sold the business to NTT and things began to change. You can check out [url]http://www.verio.net[/url] for company and contact info.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 12:46:51 PM EDT
I agree with Redjack, I have used the one Dillon sells. Excellent way to carry up to a full size (Beretta M9 in mine). Also, any company that does NOT alloy CCW holders to carry better have a HUGE insurance policy for the occasional office shooting spree by a fired/disgruntled ex-worker! As a one-man home office business, I am allowed to have MGs at my desk! -TF
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 1:11:09 PM EDT
For whatever good it will do I have emailed the following to abuse@verio.net under the topic of abuse, by the firing of employees It has come to my attention your company fired an employee for legally possessing a firearm which was locked inside his vehicle parked in a public parking lot. It is further reported that your company policy and employee handbook now makes it a firable offense to discuss firearms and shooting sports in the workplace. Are these reports true? If so, have you not heard of Articles One and Two of the Bill of Rights of the United States Constitution? Please provide me with a listing of products, services and subsidiaries of your corporation so I may know in entirety who I will never do business with again for as long as these abuses remain in place. Very sincerely but certainly not respectfully yours.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 1:15:20 PM EDT
The abuse addresses are generally for reporting spams and such, and will not get to anyone important. I would try some of the generic staff addresses, or look up their investor relations contact information.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 1:34:40 PM EDT
LDB and others, Thanks for your interest. I do have the text of the new employee handbook around here someplace... Someone that still works there sent it to me. I'll open another thread with quotes from the text if I can find it. jzdziarski, Did not mean to hijack your thread, but you mentioned leaving the firearm in the car, and thought you should know that doing so may not be enough.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 1:40:33 PM EDT
LiveFire, be happy..you always wanted to make a difference at that company =)
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 2:35:01 PM EDT
I would lock her up in the car. This is unless you are comfortable with loosing your job.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 3:51:37 PM EDT
My freedom is more important than my job. I can always find another job. If I had a choice, I would carry concealed and keep my mouth shut about it. Unfortunately, I live in one of the remaining few states that don't allow concealed carry.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 3:54:36 PM EDT
I bought a "DayRunner" Concealed carrier...and It goes everywhere w/me.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 6:31:22 PM EDT
Lock your full size pistol in your car. Purchase a very small pocket pistol to carry when you can't carry, like a Kel-Tec p32. While these are underpowered... as the saying goes: "A .22 in the pocket (or .32 in this example) beats a .45 left at home". Practace double and triple taps to a head sized target an reasonable self-defense ranges.
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 6:45:30 PM EDT
[url=http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=194040&w=activePop]Workplace shooting[/url] Better to have it and not need it..........[;)]
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 7:45:57 PM EDT
Gun, what gun? [;)]
Link Posted: 7/2/2003 9:14:39 PM EDT
No one can answer for what another should do! I would assess the work situation and make my decision based on what I assessed the risk to be. I worked for the late DEC, which had an ironclad no firearms policy, yet I was one of the original participants in the DEC Firearms Notesfile (similar to this forum). I also CCW'd occasionally, depending on where I was going after I left work and in those cases I locked it up in my desk and only I knew about it. There was even an FFL with S&W boxes frequently in his office (full ones!) in Plant Engineering. Of course his manager is the Brother of the Executive Director of Gun Owners Action League [:)] so there were never any issues about these activities. Don't ask/Don't tell is the best policy to follow.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:36:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/3/2003 7:38:54 AM EDT by Nate1]
It would be a violation of the UCMJ for me to carry a concealed weapon to work... They would put my ass in Leavenworth... edited to add: Makes a hell of a lot of sense considering that they occasionally arm me...
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 8:37:03 AM EDT
I work in a machine shop and turn over there is fairly high . I always worried about some guy being pissed off and coming back to even the score when he got fired so I casually asked about keeping a gun in my tool box . I was originally told no by my immediate superviser so I went to the owner and explained that I had a CCW and have a lot of firearms training as well as my reasons for wanting to keep a firearm near me at work (doesnt hurt to mention you want to be able to help protect your co-workers) . He told me it was fine by him but if he heard any other employees mention that they knew I had a firearm my butt was history . I keep it in a dayplanner in my toolbox and lock it up every night when I leave , I also never mention this to any of my co-workers . I may have gotten lucky with my boss or maybe the fact that I had an organized approach with plenty of facts in hand helped convince him that it was a good move .
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 8:46:47 AM EDT
I'm with the "lock it in the car" crowd on this one.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 9:04:30 AM EDT
The answer could be a Kel-Tec P-32. It's ultra light and conceals better than any other gun I own. Some people even hang one on a chain around their neck. With a good +P jhp it's a good stopper also. I've carried mine in a palm pilot case and in thunderwear. They can be found new for less than $300.00 Mikke
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 9:28:36 AM EDT
jzdziarski & LDB, Quote of text of Verio Handbook posted as Company Policy gone WAY too far.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 9:38:06 AM EDT
When I CCW'd to work in Boston, I used to lock it up in my desk during the workday. Only one other person knew that I occasionally had a gun at work and he carried a Detonics under his vest. When I worked in commercial nuclear power, I probably did the same, but that was only when I was headed up to the plant for a number of days, as I brought my target .22 pistol and trap rifle with me to shoot at a local club. I didn't bother bringing a CCW piece there. Everyone had guns in Western MA back then, so there really were no threats to worry about. [:)] I'm certain that none of these places allowed firearms in their policies. Never checked nor did I ever worry about the policies. As one respondent pointed out, all they can do is fire you. If you need it and don't have it, they can bury you!
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 1:11:04 PM EDT
Raytheon has a no gun policy that includes company parking lot. They also have the no guns on property improperly displayed. This is a bad deal because in Texas a business must to display the verbage of the actual penal code prohibiting lawfully CCW - (er PC 30. somthing) in 1 in. block letters or the sign is invalid. I brought it up at work safety meeting that people can walk right in carrying a pistol because our sign isn't legal but I can't carry because I have a badge with Raytheon on it. I was told the sign was going to be brought up to spec but it never was. If you have to ever visit Elcan/Raytheon at 1601 N. Plano Rd. in Richardson, Texas and have a CC permit, come on in.
Link Posted: 7/3/2003 7:34:37 PM EDT
I feel sorry for you guys that have to put up with this crap. I'm a department manager at a software company. I carry concealed at work every day. I've even open carried in the afternoon if I have a match right after work. Near the end of my shift I'd switch to my belt holster and mag pouch. Hell, I've even had my AR15 leaning against the wall by my desk when I was going to use it in a match after work. There's one lady in the sales department I'm not sure about, but everyone else in the office is PRO or at least neutral.
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