Hello all, Ill be buying my first AR15 soon here and had my eye on this Rock River Arms Elite LE Tactical CAR A4/Post-Ban, http://www.rockriverarms.com/images/eletcar4.gif
I was wondering if this is a good gun for the cost? I beleive i saw it for around $800 at http://www.sableco.net/

Im open to suggestions as im a newbie and if theres a better AR for that price range or if theres something i should make sure i get on the rifle id like to know.  

Thanks for any and all help, i do appricate it.

Kao

I'm an ArmaLite guy and been for a long time.  However, I did buy a used postban RR and that is also a good AR.  

As to your specific model choice, I have no knowledge.  Whatever your ultimate selection I would suggest a chrome lined barrel as that barrel will allow you to shoot mil-surp ammunition without fear of ruining a barrel.

Two thoughts...

First, why go with a mid length handguard?

Second, try adco.com

http://www.adcofirearms.com/rockriver/rrauppers.cfm?page=rra
That gets you your upper for $530

http://www.adcofirearms.com/rockriver/rockriver.cfm?page=rra&CFID=120949&CFTOKEN=16485796
That gets you your lower for $210 plus $25 for transfer to your FFL.

Theres the rifle a bit cheaper for you.

Another thought is that if you are going to buy optics, you can buy the upper without the sight and save another $100 or so.  Just a thought, I have no idea how you are going to set up your rifle.

I got my Bushmater M4 for $800.  It was my preferance for the money and style.

I really like the chome barrel and yes I really like everyone bitching over the noise.  Intimidation is part of the game.

Tj

KaOTIK,                                               Good choice you will find no better deal than a RRA for the money . It's got a trigger that besides the JP trigger group appears to be second to none.In AR15.com it appears the majority of shooters have good things to say about RRA. I was at the same crossroads a few years back and I could have made a different choice but the thing that hooked me on RRA besides the fact that Wilson sometimes uses their lowers is that there was a discussion  in AR15.com a while back regarding the standard fare 'my BM is better than your OLY , but my Colt rules your BM (just guys trying to justify to themselves why they spent so much money !!!)etc and when RRA the company was described as a job shop versus a production line assembly type of shop. Which indicates to me that the employees may have more to gain/lose by the success/ failure of the company. It did not have a problem that there was not a horse or a snake or a knight in shining armor on it but my concerns went by the wayside when I took it to the range . Sometimes when you pay more you get more but sometimes you only spend more money . Good Luck with your choice the Tactical LE is the identical version I purchased and have not been disappointed since I got it actually since I switched out uppers and lost my mid-length handguards.I agree with Stickman forget the tactical carry handle its junk and costs a couple hundred bucks.So you want mid-lenght handguards ?If your thinking about it stop - go carbine you'll have more options you can explore , besides you'll get funny looks from guys who have carbines ,kinda like walkin a poodle into a club for Doberman Pinschers owners  !!    

Why would surplus ammo ruin a non chromed lined barrel?? RRA is not full auto or burst fire.

For another $100 you could own a Colt. Worth every penny now and more than that if you ever sell it.

This is a whole other debate.  Two of my rifles are non-chrome and I like them just fine and personaly I can't see why one ammo over another would wear any faster.  Yes the chrome will last alot longer but we are talking more rounds than the average shooter shoots and so what if you do.  Buy another barrel and slap her on.  The chrome does clean much easier which is a major plus in my book but I do like the non-chrome on my long shooter.

As for the RRA, it's a fine rifle and I wouldn't think twice about buying one.  I do like the Bushmaster and Colt M4s much better since they are more like the military but won't slam an RRA or someones choice in buying one.

Tj

Hey guys, thanks for all the replys.  This will be my first gun I've ever owned so I do not know all the ins and outs of things (I have had some experience with guns just not in some time now as my friend who would take me shooting moved away and does not have a phone anymore).  

To answer a question with a question.  About the midguards, no clue and did not put thought into it honestly.  Why? Are they bad/not good?

I'm just going to use the gun target shooting and i will eventually move up to optics once i get more cash in the future, my budget at the moment is around $800ish and I do prefer not building it myself for my first time as it kinda puts me off (I have hard enough time building models sometimes).

So what should i look for and not look for in picking an AR then?  I'm truly sorry for all the questions im just kinda clueless in this territory(insert deer in headlights look).

Kao

I own a Rock River CMP match rifle, it was perfect right out of the box, fit, finish, trigger and sights were all exactly what I wanted. They make a great product, I'm impressed everytime I get to a match with it.

BUSHMASTER!

Mid length handguards paint you into a corner the options you have for upgrading becomes limited with a carbine length you can swap them out for different handguards in carbine length not so with mid length you cant add a SIR system or RAS (rail systems) with out having to have your gas tube shortened and handguard cap and front sight moved back , midlength are only little longer and if you have hands like 'THE BIG SHOW' then that might be the ticket, but if not save yourself some dissapointment down the road not that you will hate your RRA but it seems that most optics systems and rail systems are established based on carbine length dimensions ever seen a BM or COLT with midlength handguards , not I said the blind man.Cosmetically the carbine length are the ticket if the appearance of your weapon is not important then buy a shotgun !!

Whats up KAOTIC??

The RRA is a fine company, dont let anyone sway you, or talk you down on RRA... their one of the best. Great Manufacturers are also BUSHMASTER, ARMALITE, and COLT. You cant really go wrong with any of the companys listed above.

The mid length handguards would limit your choices on RAIL systems such as those three rifles in the TEAMXBOX thread. (The rail systems replaces the handguards and allow you to attach all sorts of gadgets on the rifle such as grips, lights, and foreward mounted optics such a sred dots). So if your looking to trick out your AR with lights, lasers, and everything else (except a scope, they dont really go on the handguards >=), you may want a CAR length handguard or full length for rail options. Also of note is that a red dot would fit just fine on the receiver, and if you wanted it mounted farther down the gun... you could buy an extension. Im gonna tell you right now, the RRA detachable rail was MADE for a red dot optic called an AIMPOINT. It is a great red dot, and it fits perfectly (or so I hear) on the detachable carry handle rail that comes standard with the RRA you want. (you do know the rear sight and rail comes off right? Even more room for optics! yay!) If you dont want to buy the rail, you save $100 bucks but also lose IRON SIGHTS. This means you need to buy an optic off the bat, or buy an BUIS (back up iron sight, or Flip up iron sight) to replace it.

Aimpoint
[img]http://www.aimpoint.com/products/compml2/compml2.jpg[/img]

Dont be confused, the rifle is a CARBINE, but it has handguards that are mid length. The barrel is still 16 inches, midlength handguards or shorter CAR length. Go with a model with CAR handguards for more rail options as discussed earlier. The rail is just for people who like to trick out their rifles though, and without it you could still set up oodles of optics without a problem. Rails for the handguard accept red dots the best, as obviously a 2x or xx scope would be a bit too far to see through!Red dots can be mounted foreward almost as far as you want, and some people prefer the red dot on the hanguard, others prefer it on the "body" of the gun where scopes and optics normally are.

Since its a carbine, RRA allows you to chrome line the barrel as an option. I suggest you do that, as the barrel will last much longer. Unless your concerned about MAXXIMUM accuracy, stay away from non chromed barrels. Chrome lined barrels are PLENTY accurate for target shooting though. Chrome is great!! Cleans easier too!

Also, if you choose another company, they may offer a rifle with a muzzle brake. A muzzle brake is a attachment on the end of the barrel that looks like a flash hider, but is quite different. It vents gas to the side of the attachment, and reduces recoil. The AR-15 is a very low recoil gun off the bat... so its not really needed. If you do get one, expect less muzzle rise and recoil, and also expect more NOISE. It can seriously make your rifle intolerable to people around you, it will be LOUD. LOUD LOUD LOUD. If your just shooting by yourself, then it wont bother people around you, so it wont matter. The noise does not affect the shooter so much as those off to the side of you.

A2 upper, AKA carry handle upper. This is what I have, its a carry handle that is NOT detachable. Its the same configuration as m16s you see in the movies... usually. This config really limits your options as far as optics. It makes you mount them really high on the gun, and well... that sucks. The lower you can get the scope to the barrel the better. You can get nice optics for it, but your kinda limited with room. A drop foreward red dot is a good option for the A2. (Its a rail that fits on the carry handle, goes down the front and over the handguards, hence a Drop Foreward). Since I am a traditionalist, I like my A2 16 inch carbine.

A2 20 inch
[img]http://www.rockriverarms.com/images/a2standard.gif[/img]

Also, if you are looking at other models, stay away from anything with CAST parts. Notable gun is the OLY arms PLINKER. Stay away from cast parts, cast receivers, cast anything.

Stay away from .223 chambers. They wont shoot 5.56x45. A 5.56x45 chamber will shoot .223 though. RRA offers a .223 "WYLD" chamber and it will shoot both. Target guns usually have .223 chambers... IE varminters, DCM rifles... .223 chambers may explode if you put 5.56 in them!!
The gun your looking at will handle both fine bc it has the .223 wyld chamber.



Note: A 20 inch barrel gives you the most "power" from the 5.56x45 or .223 round.
Obviously a longer barrel allows the gas to be used more effeciently and get more speed out of the projectile. The more speed the 5.56/.223 gets, the better it fragments in tissue. So if you want MAXXIMUM alien/monster/nazi stopage, go with 20 inch. 16 inch is also a very good length for a defensive rifle, especially indoors. Also, a longer barrel does not = more accuracy. It may help YOU shoot better by having more weight (thus small movements your body makes do not disturb your gun as easily) but if a nice 16 inch and nice 20 inch were clamped down, they would have the same accuracy.
One would shoot faster than the other though, because of the longer barrel length.

SKIP OVER THIS IF YOU DONT CARE ABOUT GETTING INTO FIREFIGHTS OR TRAJECTORY!!!!




LAST CHANCE!! ITS CONFUSING.




The faster a bullet shoots, the better for combat.
Picture this.

Imagine a laser... its flight path does not arch. If you aimed at someone 100 ft away,  or 900 meters away, you would still hit them without sight adjustment.

0= targets/nazi's/bigfoot/enemy soldiers.
-- = bullets flight path

*LASER EXAMPLE*
      200m          100m         50m
--------0-------------0------------0--- U
Now a football, whos trajectory is arched.
It would require sight adjustment to hit targets at different distances.


FOOTBALL EXAPMLE Note ==== is AIR... wont work otherwise.
=============== - - - =============  
======== -  - =========-  - ======
===- 0- ====0========0=====0 - U< You
++++400M+++300m+++++200m+++100m

See those guys in the middle? The football went over their head. Sight adjustment would be needed to hit them, but to hit the man at 200 meters would mean the bullet would hit the ground at 300m... and so on. So in other words, the FASTER a bullet is, the flatter its trajectory becomes. AR15 example: (The data is not exact, but its a real example)  20 inch rifle, Sighted in at 50m. The bullet rises as it exits the barrel, and hits point of aim at 50 meters. It rises 1 inch above the barrel at 150 meters, as it reaches the height of its trajectory it begins to fall, and at 200 meters hits point of aim again. At 250 meters its an inch bellow point of aim. 300 1.5 inches below the point of aim. Get it? A man sized target would get hit in the vitals if you aimed at the chest up to lets say 0-300 meters. A slow bullet may need to be arched over the heads of baddies at 150 meters to hit someone at 300 meters. I have absolutly no idea why I told a newbie this... Uh, if your not worried about shooting man sized targets out to 300 meters and getting kill shots, then the barrel length wont matter. >=) 16 inch still has a flat enough trajectory thanks to the superior ballsitics of the 5.56x45/.223 Remember, the faster this perticular round is, the better it will fragment in tissue.

^In sum from the above^
20 inch = more ownage of the bad guys at extended distances. 16 inch is great too! It will own bad guys just as well and its trajectory is good enough for a firefight. Heck you can clear houses easier too because its smaller! >=) If you read that and are crying because how confusing things have become, im sorry. Dont let it keep you up at night. 16 inch is great (its what I own).

Good day!

Knife_Sniper, once again you've proved to be invaluable for all your information, thank you so much and to everyone else as well.

From what I've learned and have been researching and searching around, i think the better choice then would be this AR then as it leaves lots of options open and covers the important things you need/should have. http://www.rockriverarms.com/16_a4_carbines.htm
I was thinking about the middle one, any comments on that one, good/bad?  

Thanks again, this has been a great learning experience thus far and can't thank you all enough for your time and patiences.

Kao

Good choice, but remember your going to need an optic of the bat, or a BUIS, or a detachable carry handle.

[img]http://www.rockriverarms.com/images/upperparts.gif[/img]

http://www.rockriverarms.com/rra_le_a4_tactical_car.htm

This ones a good choice as well...
Car handguards, detachable "carry handle" rail with iron sights at rear. 16 inch barrel. NM trigger, HOGUE rubber grips!!  

loaded!

Midlength *slightly* limits your choice in rail estate. hahaha.  But there is a midlength SIR and it is a C model and bi-level.  Unfortunately, there is no midlength 1 in 7 twist chromelineds yet.  Armalite makes chromed 1 in 9 midlengths.  They are to my knowledge the only chrome lined midlengths available.  And I think that Knights Armament's URX is going to be a midlength, but I really know very little about that.

Most people use standard handguards for ARs.  Not a shortage of those in midlenght.  Most float tubes are alluminum, so it is a chop saw to get them to fit a middy.  Or you could have Kurt make you one.  PRI makes a midlength tube that is carbon fiber.

midlenght is the proper gas proper location for a 16 inch barrel

I thought that RRA did not have a chromed midlegth.  I thought it was SS.

I would think that you could live without a 1:7, so long as 1:9 was available. 1:9 is more versatile.