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Posted: 6/25/2003 10:03:49 PM EDT
On May 2nd 03 I went to order some ammo from a company out of state and when I gave them my address I was advised that they were no longer able to ship ammo to NY State. I asked when that had come about and was told that the companys legal dept. had put a message out stating that as of 4/30/03 they were no longer allowed to ship to NY because of a new law. I tried another company and was told the same thing. They slipped one by on me! Does anyone know anything about this?
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 3:53:32 AM EDT
Peter. Raptor22 mentioned this to me in an email this morning. Please advise as to the companies. I know there are some companies out there that will not ship to NY in general because of NYC specific laws. I was not aware of any news laws being passed re: mail order ammo sales.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 4:41:14 AM EDT
What company is this? I am also unaware of any laws concerning mail order ammo sales. Was this handgun or rifle ammo? Are you in the city? Try posting this in the NY/NJ forum. Let us know what's up. Steve.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 4:47:13 AM EDT
New York State law prohibits selling "pistol" ammo to a person who does not have a pistol license. What exactly is pistol ammo? Who knows. But Cabelas for instance won't ship to me (although I live in the City). But the law is a state law, not NYC law, NYC has some tougher laws on ammo sales.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 4:49:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2003 4:50:13 AM EDT by jzdziarski]
Why do people bother living in states like New Yorkistan and Kommieforniastan? I say we evacuate the cities and pay our taxes to some other state.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 5:00:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jzdziarski: Why do people bother living in states like New Yorkistan and Kommieforniastan? I say we evacuate the cities and pay our taxes to some other state.
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NY state is not so bad, It's NYC that's fucked up. As soon as I got into guns I got out of the city, and never looked back. That law about pistol ammo doesn't make any sense. I can buy all the 9mm or .45 ACP ammo I want, but then they ask to see a permit when you ask for .357 mag. Things like that drive me nuts. Steve.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 7:17:04 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jzdziarski: Why do people bother living in states like New Yorkistan and Kommieforniastan? I say we evacuate the cities and pay our taxes to some other state.
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Sometimes, we just don't have much choice, unfortunately. I no longer officially live in the city, thank god, but I still go to college in it, and spend more time than I'd like. It's nice and convenient to live, until I want to go do some real outdoors activity, not the park, and definately not for guns. NYC messes it all up for the rest of the state, bleh.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 7:43:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen: New York State law prohibits selling "pistol" ammo to a person who does not have a pistol license. What exactly is pistol ammo? Who knows. But Cabelas for instance won't ship to me (although I live in the City). But the law is a state law, not NYC law, NYC has some tougher laws on ammo sales.
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For ammo, I believe that's only NYC. Because the moment you leave the city, you can walk into any Walmart and purchase any type of ammo from 22lr to 50 cal, you just need to be 21. Walmart has a big sign in front of their counter that states that.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 7:57:13 AM EDT
That's kind of like the PRK (Peoples Republic of Kalifornication), if you look at the map by county that voted for Bush or Algore, almost the entire PRK voted for Bush. If it wasn't for the major cities, where all Algore votes came from, Bush would have won by a land slide. It's places like LA, SAC, SF that make the rest of the PRK suck.
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 9:14:15 AM EDT
Wasn't Kommiefornicationstan supposed to have sunk by now?
Link Posted: 6/26/2003 9:31:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sterling18: For ammo, I believe that's only NYC. Because the moment you leave the city, you can walk into any Walmart and purchase any type of ammo from 22lr to 50 cal, you just need to be 21. Walmart has a big sign in front of their counter that states that.
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New York State Penal Law Section 270.00(5): [b]5. Notwithstanding the provisions of subdivision four of this section, it shall be unlawful for any dealer in firearms to sell any ammunition designed exclusively for use in a pistol or revolver to any person, not authorized to possess a pistol or revolver. The violation of this section shall constitute a class B misdemeanor.[/b] New York City laws are considerably tougher, banning the possession of ammo for a pistol or rifle caliber which you don't have on your permit.
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 12:44:22 AM EDT
On May 2nd 03 I went to order some ammo from a company out of state and when I gave them my address I was advised that they were no longer able to ship ammo to NY State. I asked when that had come about and was told that the companys legal dept. had put a message out stating that as of 4/30/03 they were no longer allowed to ship to NY because of a new law. I tried another company and was told the same thing. They slipped one by on me! Does anyone know anything about this? The company was Kiesler and I was ordering some 9MM, 7.62X54R and some 22lr. I live in Upstate NY, please don't say it is the same thing as NYC! I don't recall what the other company was that I called right after hanging up with Kiesler but I tried to do the same orrder and was told that they could no longer ship to any part of NY State.
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 3:01:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jzdziarski: Wasn't Kommiefornicationstan supposed to have sunk by now?
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60% chance that another "big" earthquake will hit within the next 20 years... but we arent supposed to become an island for another 2.5 billion years. Sorry for all of those who were expecting to see that in their lifetimes.
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 8:18:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/27/2003 8:22:25 AM EDT by knightone]
Yeah, NYC ruins it for the whole state. I work most of the year in NYC. If it weren't for the ridiculously strict firearms laws, and the complete prohibition of the AR, it would be more convenient for me to move there entirely. However, I am able to keep my beloved collection in my family home in Bama and therefore spend as much time as possible down there. American by birth, Southern by the grace of God! P.S. BridgerNY, which college do you go to? I went to NYU. I will never send my children there. I f they ever should tell me they want to go there, I would have them committed to a mental asylum. Hopefully, you got to a better school.
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 8:53:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/27/2003 9:09:15 AM EDT by NYPatriot]
OK...I just got off the phone with a phone rep. from Kiesler, and here is what he told me... They do have a [i]policy[/i], effective 4/30/03 that they will not sell [b]any[/b] ammunition to NYS residents, but it is [b]not[/b] based on any new law that was slipped by us without notice. It is a case of their legal council over reacting to New York State Penal Law Section 270.00(5):
5. Notwithstanding the provisions of subdivision four of this section, it shall be unlawful for any dealer in firearms to sell any ammunition designed exclusively for use in a pistol or revolver to any person, not authorized to possess a pistol or revolver. The violation of this section shall constitute a class B misdemeanor.
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I read the exact wording of the law to the gentleman, but his reaction was that they were advised that any liability incurred by "[i]potential[/i] violations" was not worth the risk, and that they had adopted a blanket policy towards ammo sales to NYS. [b]In other words, Kiesler could legally sell NYS residents ammo, but they simply choose not to![/b] I say fuck 'em in the ear! They are bending over backwards to be PC, and they will never see a penny of my money because of it!
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 9:01:10 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NYPatriot: I say fuck 'em in the ear! They are bending over backwards to be PC, and they will never see a penny of my money because of it!
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Can we get a topic on the general board. Maybe if we raise the ARFCOM Army we can get Kiesler's to reverse their policy.
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 9:20:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
Originally Posted By NYPatriot: I say fuck 'em in the ear! They are bending over backwards to be PC, and they will never see a penny of my money because of it!
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Can we get a topic on the general board. Maybe if we raise the ARFCOM Army we can get Kiesler's to reverse their policy.
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No doubt! This kind of shit really pisses me off. Like there ain't enough un-fucking-Constitutional laws that we have to pussy-fucking-foot around any-God Damn-how. [b][size=6]AHHHHHHHHH![/size=6][/b] Like Colt making fucking post bans before the law was even writen.
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 9:35:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/27/2003 9:55:34 AM EDT by jasondcrum]
[b] They are bending over backwards to be PC, and they will never see a penny of my money because of it! [/b] They are not going to see a penny of your money because they dont want it! What happened in NYC when the AR was banned? A New Yorker that moved down here to Texas (yes we will let yall in) told me it was door to door confiscation because all of them were previously registered. Is that what happened or BS? (Image of that situation here...)
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 9:57:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/28/2003 12:00:01 PM EDT by NYPatriot]
For those who are so inclined... service@kiesler.com (812) 288-5740 Be polite, but firm.
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 10:09:14 AM EDT
With freinds like this, who needs Schumer and Fienstien.
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 11:20:30 AM EDT
Will this do? Sirs, I have become aware that your company now has a policy disallowing any ammunition sales to New York State. While I respect your right to do business with whomever you please I am also disappointed that you would deny law abiding citizens from legally purchasing a legal product. The New York State statute you refer to as the basis for this decision effects only New York State based dealers, etc. not out of state entities, as a matter of fact, as long as any rifle has been chambered to accept a certain caliber of pistol ammunition it is not necessary to have a pistol permit to purchase it, that would include probably 99% of all standard pistol calibers. As we see so many of our constitutional rights being eroded it is disheartening to see members of our own community (firearms) facilitating and furthering the cause of those who would disarm and ultimately subjugate us. Therefore I will not personally purchase any merchandise from your company and will encourage other members of the shooting fraternity within my circle to also refrain from purchasing from you. I respectfully request that you would reconsider your policy. Jeffrey K Hampshire
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 8:21:48 PM EDT
Well done JKH! [beer]
Link Posted: 6/27/2003 8:34:23 PM EDT
Well said indeed JKH. I think we should all let them know how we feel. I've heard nothing but good things about Kiesler and this was my first attempt at an order from them. Thanks to all for the help and lets see if we can get them to change there minds. Peter556
Originally Posted By JKH: Will this do? Sirs, I have become aware that your company now has a policy disallowing any ammunition sales to New York State. While I respect your right to do business with whomever you please I am also disappointed that you would deny law abiding citizens from legally purchasing a legal product. The New York State statute you refer to as the basis for this decision effects only New York State based dealers, etc. not out of state entities, as a matter of fact, as long as any rifle has been chambered to accept a certain caliber of pistol ammunition it is not necessary to have a pistol permit to purchase it, that would include probably 99% of all standard pistol calibers. As we see so many of our constitutional rights being eroded it is disheartening to see members of our own community (firearms) facilitating and furthering the cause of those who would disarm and ultimately subjugate us. Therefore I will not personally purchase any merchandise from your company and will encourage other members of the shooting fraternity within my circle to also refrain from purchasing from you. I respectfully request that you would reconsider your policy. Jeffrey K Hampshire
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Link Posted: 6/27/2003 8:50:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/1/2003 8:42:41 AM EDT by NYPatriot]
Here is the E-mail that I just sent off.
To whom it may concern, I am a New York state resident (& potential customer, I might add), and it has come to my attention that your company has a policy by which you refuse to sell ammunition to NYS gun owners. As this issue is rapidly making its way around the on-line gun community, I was hoping that you could answer a few questions, so as to clarify matters. -Specifically, why does your company refuse to sell a lawful product to NY's law abiding gun owners? -What NYS law does your legal council advise that you would be violating by selling ammo in NYS (please cite a statute #)? -You do realize that the entire state of NY is not governed under the draconian firearms laws that apply to New York City? -By your policy, are you implying that other ammunition retailers who do choose to sell to NYS residents are, in some way, breaking the law? -How do you feel about the fact that your company's reputation may take a major hit in the eyes of many gun owners because of your policy? Thank you for your time, and I sincerely look forward to your reply. Regards,
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I'll post the reply if & when I receive it...
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 1:42:09 AM EDT
We should all try to place orders for ammo. Once they see all the business they are losing, they will change their policy. Steve.
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 3:33:37 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jasondcrum: [b] What happened in NYC when the AR was banned? A New Yorker that moved down here to Texas (yes we will let yall in) told me it was door to door confiscation because all of them were previously registered. Is that what happened or BS? (Image of that situation here...)
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See the following: [url]http://communities.prodigy.net/sportsrec/gz-rkba12.html[/url]
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 3:38:07 AM EDT
Keep on them guys! I have never heard any negative reports about Kielers sothis surprised me, I do know that they mostly cater to law enforcement (whicih is fine) but be pervaded with the attitude that citizens (ie, potential criminals) should be restricted as far as firearms are concerned. I am not flaming the LE community as their are many excellant individuals amongst them, however in my rural area all the new young graduates I have met seem to have this attitude now that society is made up of two classes, us and them and they tend to be suspicious of any non LE people. Hopefully this isnt the case with Kielsers but there is a definite trend to this mindset. Jeff
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 4:31:47 PM EDT
Message sent... Keep the pressure on them, this is bullshit of the worst kind...
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 7:26:35 PM EDT
While we are on the topic of NYS laws, are there any restrictions on "assault rifles" ( as much as I hate to use that term)such as AR-15s?
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 9:01:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bohr: While we are on the topic of NYS laws, are there any restrictions on "assault rifles" ( as much as I hate to use that term)such as AR-15s?
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As far as NYS is concerned they have a ban that is identical to the federal ban. Nothing to really worry about. What sucks is that if the federal ban dies next year, we will still get the shaft because the state ban will still be here. Some local areas may have tougher restrictions. That is for you to find out. Steve.
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 8:27:09 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Phil_A_Steen:
Originally Posted By sterling18: For ammo, I believe that's only NYC. Because the moment you leave the city, you can walk into any Walmart and purchase any type of ammo from 22lr to 50 cal, you just need to be 21. Walmart has a big sign in front of their counter that states that.
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New York State Penal Law Section 270.00(5): [b]5. Notwithstanding the provisions of subdivision four of this section, it shall be unlawful for any dealer in firearms to sell any ammunition designed exclusively for use in a pistol or revolver to any person, not authorized to possess a pistol or revolver. The violation of this section shall constitute a class B misdemeanor.[/b] New York City laws are considerably tougher, banning the possession of ammo for a pistol or rifle caliber which you don't have on your permit.
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Thanks for the heads up. Maybe I should carry my license to Walmart more often, huh?
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 8:33:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SMV:
Originally Posted By Bohr: While we are on the topic of NYS laws, are there any restrictions on "assault rifles" ( as much as I hate to use that term)such as AR-15s?
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As far as NYS is concerned they have a ban that is identical to the federal ban. Nothing to really worry about. What sucks is that if the federal ban dies next year, we will still get the shaft because the state ban will still be here. Some local areas may have tougher restrictions. That is for you to find out. Steve.
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You know what, something good will come out of the sunset of the AWB for us NY'ers anyway. Even when NY's AWB never sunsets. We can buy "maybe very cheap" all the pre-bans we want. Because once the federal AWB sunsets, the prices on pre-bans will go down. Who wants the pre-bans when the post ban's with all the evil features are there to buy new. So there will be a surplus of pre-bans going for low low prices. Us NY's will be able to get pre-bans cheap. Just a ray of sunshine in a piss poor day.
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 8:55:46 AM EDT
Another Upstate Ny shooter here; another polite email to service@kiesler.com is sent out. JKH, hope you don't mind that it was very nearly a carbon copy of your well written letter! Slightly off-topic; I wonder if the lawmakers of NYS know how many "new-to-firearms" people are currently taking an active interest in firearms and shooting because of the very laws being passed to control them? Among my group of friends we've gone from two enthusiasts to nearly 6 or 8 of us all getting together to plink, and 4 of those new guys/girls are first time gun owners. Some of us have taken an interest in shooting and such, not just because it's cool as all hell (duh!), a good way to get outside with your friends and make noise, something that almost everyone can do (even the ladies, rowr chicks with guns) and all that, but because we're seeing all this new legislation and restriction on firearms rights in NY, and it's got a disturbing pattern. I just wish I was more informed, earlier, myself. I'm past 30, and I hadn't owned a firearm since I was 16, until this winter when I bought into a very bad case of black rifle fever!
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 10:30:29 AM EDT
Originally Posted By sterling18:
Originally Posted By SMV:
Originally Posted By Bohr: While we are on the topic of NYS laws, are there any restrictions on "assault rifles" ( as much as I hate to use that term)such as AR-15s?
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As far as NYS is concerned they have a ban that is identical to the federal ban. Nothing to really worry about. What sucks is that if the federal ban dies next year, we will still get the shaft because the state ban will still be here. Some local areas may have tougher restrictions. That is for you to find out. Steve.
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You know what, something good will come out of the sunset of the AWB for us NY'ers anyway. Even when NY's AWB never sunsets. We can buy "maybe very cheap" all the pre-bans we want. Because once the federal AWB sunsets, the prices on pre-bans will go down. Who wants the pre-bans when the post ban's with all the evil features are there to buy new. So there will be a surplus of pre-bans going for low low prices. Us NY's will be able to get pre-bans cheap. Just a ray of sunshine in a piss poor day.
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I think that if the ban dies, american firearms manufactures will come out with new stuff. For example, I have had my eye on the Robinson M96 for a while now. It will probably be my next purchase. I'm sure that if the ban dies, they will come out with a version that has a folding stock and flash supperssor. Too bad I won't be able to get it. Belive it or not, we won't be able to use post ban mags either. Of course the prices will drop on the mags made before 9/94, but who wants to deal with the hassel. I want the ban to die more than anything; I write letters and e-mails to the necessary people, but if it dies, it really won't do much for me. Steve.
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 4:21:13 AM EDT
Good to see more new faces coming up in NY! In my area (Allegany couonty) there are only a few guys that I know of into EBR's, most people think that they were totally banned with Uncle Pataki's insightful legislation. Any of you guys close to my area? I have a close bud in Almond that is a major FAL fanatci but does enjoy the occasional AR, perhaps some of could get together for a shoot sometime. It is sad that there are so many "politically correct" people in thsi country, most of them are incapable of coherent thought and are more like lemmings or parrots, miming and following the crowd who repeats a lie most frequently and vociforously. Be prepared to educate whenever an opportunity arises, same as being prepared with the right Gospel when needed. Jeff
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 2:54:23 PM EDT
So... did anyone get a reply???
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 4:34:42 AM EDT
No, not yet.
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 8:46:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/1/2003 8:57:21 AM EDT by NYPatriot]
Guys... we might also want to try sending our E-mails to: service@kieslersonline.com The other E-mail may be their retail store, and our messages might not be getting through to the proper person.
Link Posted: 7/5/2003 12:38:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/5/2003 12:39:25 PM EDT by hielo]
[size=6][red][center]AmmoMan.Com[/center][/red][/size=6] Enough said.
Link Posted: 7/5/2003 12:42:27 PM EDT
Post-AWB sunset mags will likely be indestinguishable from pre-ban mags... No more need for restricted or date stamps. So how will NY know if the mag was manufactured in 2004, 1994, or 1984? Firearms on the other hand have serial numbers that are tied to dates, and new fangled designs with naughty features will be out of our reach... but mags should not be a problem, unless they are for a new gun design that did not exist prior to NY's ban.
Link Posted: 7/5/2003 1:28:31 PM EDT
Shhhhh Hiram [;)] Im just curious, when did NY pass its AW ban?
Link Posted: 7/5/2003 3:20:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jzdziarski: Why do people bother living in states like New Yorkistan and Kommieforniastan? I say we evacuate the cities and pay our taxes to some other state.
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Ya sure the gun laws here are not like Vermont,,,but if you live outside of the City of New York then they really are not bad at all,,, New York aside from the gun laws pertaining to the City of NY is a great state,,,I've been all over this great country and own a home in the south,,(inherited from one side of the family) and I'll tell you what the south is nice to visit but I won't be moving down there to live,,I'll leave it at that. Oh in closing NYC is not even in the top 100 in crime as far as metro areas go in this country,,check out the FBI stats on this my friend. sure the black areas of the city/state suck then again all areas in this country which are predominatly black suck...I have a concealed carry permit,,I own more "assault weapons" than I can carry and have tons of ammo,,and my garage doors are unlocked hell my truck is unlocked.....New York is a damm good state all in all......I get pissed as hell when people who have no clue as to the positive aspects of New York including the only mega city in this country (NYC) bad mouth this state based on narrow minded ignorance...fact
Link Posted: 7/5/2003 3:55:53 PM EDT
Kieslers made my sh*t list real fast. They had a sale on .50 BMG early last month of a 100 linked rds for $74.95. I put in an online order only to receive a call that they will not ship to NY. Too bad. I have done a lot of business with them in the past. My FFL would order complete DPMS lowers for $212 shipped for me and only charge me the transfer fee. I told them that I will never do business with them again.
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