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Posted: 6/20/2003 4:42:04 AM EDT
Why do I see pictures of soldiers holding their M16s with the stock on top of the shoulder instead of in the shoulder pocket? Doesn't seem very stable to me.

The only reason I can fathom is it shortens up the length of pull.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 5:21:44 AM EDT
You know, the only thing that I can think of is that they are most probably just "resting/supporting" some of the weight on their shoulder while trying to remain at some sort of "ready" position (versus carrying it shouldered at an up-ready position).
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 5:38:36 AM EDT
This position replicates the position the gun rides in when it is on a 3 point sling. It is easy to hold a weapon this way for long periods of time and it is still quick into action. Holding something close in to the body is much easier than holding it away. Try holding your AR out in a traditional firing stance for 5 minutes, and then try holding it in this position for 5 minutes and you will see the difference. The torso helps support the weight of the gun and the whole arrangement is quite comfortable.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 5:49:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2003 5:50:45 AM EDT by MrPink]
Well that makes some sense. But would then make even more sense (to me) is toting a 5.5 pound Commando or a 6 pound M4 rather than an 8-11+ pound A2 or SPR with all kinds of shit tacked onto it.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 6:36:35 AM EDT
Also, some guys like to rest the stock up on their shoulder if they are just using the ACOG for observation. Same reason as listed above...you can hold it up there longer without getting tired.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 7:47:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2003 8:04:33 AM EDT by EL_TIRADOR]
Not quite! Our body armor prevents us from getting a good stock weld! Here are some pics from my current location..... www.airfieldops.com Dave
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 9:27:17 AM EDT
Ya, I assumed it was a combination of body armour, the long A2 stock, and in some cases the short eye relief of the ACOG.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 11:05:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ridge: Ya, I assumed it was a combination of body armour, the long A2 stock,
View Quote
You assumed correctly.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 11:36:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By MrPink: Well that makes some sense. But would then make even more sense (to me) is toting a 5.5 pound Commando or a 6 pound M4 rather than an 8-11+ pound A2 or SPR with all kinds of shit tacked onto it.
View Quote
Most soldiers don't have a choice, they're issued a rifle and they use it, whether it's an M4 or a M16A2.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 7:32:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EL_TIRADOR: Not quite! Our body armor prevents us from getting a good stock weld! Here are some pics from my current location..... www.airfieldops.com Dave
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Lots of cool photos but none that illustrated what was discussed in the thread. Can someone point to some that do? I'm curious about it and don't know if I'm visualizing the right thing or not. Thanks.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 8:20:06 PM EDT
what the? they are holding A1's in the pictures section of Iraq. Man, Im active duty, and I know that we tend to not always get the best equipment, but that really sucks if they are using 62gr in those.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 8:52:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By EL_TIRADOR: Here are some pics from my current location..... www.airfieldops.com Dave
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Hooah!
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 9:09:18 PM EDT
Not quite! Our body armor prevents us from getting a good stock weld! Here are some pics from my current location..... www.airfieldops.com Dave ________________________________________ David Johnson Tucson, AZ OPERATION IRAQI FREEDOM - OPERATION ENDURING FREEDOM - OPERATION ANACONDA - TASK FORCE MES Our sincere thanks to you and everyone else from my family and I to you and to all those who serve to preserve our freedom.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 11:02:51 PM EDT
Ok, I found the reason why the soldiers place the buttstock on thier shoulder. They saw this dude carrying his "BIG GUN" over his shoulder, and learn it from him !!! [heavy] [img]http://www.airfieldops.com/images/convoy.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 5:23:47 AM EDT
That would be me with the SAW, M9 and AT-4. Next to me is Squadron Leader Whitworth from the RAF.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 6:19:34 AM EDT
so I take it your back in the states?
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 7:51:20 AM EDT
No, I'm still here in Iraq. I should be rotating back to Tucson in mid-August.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 8:17:59 AM EDT
How is it that your unit is still stuck with the M16's and not the M16A2's or at least a M16A1?
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 10:46:27 AM EDT
The rifle I have here is so old that it doesn't even have the mag release button gaurd. Serial number:054,725 Green M14 sling and 20 rd magazines! Some kind of shit huh! You should see the M16A2's that we have with "AUTO" x'ed out with an electric engraver and "BURST" written below it!
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 3:49:35 PM EDT
I read about some guard units that still had M16A1s in the '91 gulf war. That was how I learned about the two different types of ammo. I'd hoped that had been resolved since. Amazing.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 4:31:43 PM EDT
The poor suckers in the USAF have really gotten hosed on their small arms. USAF focuses on bigger and better weapons. (Planes, missles, etc...) The only unit I have seen that has totally new equipment are the para-rescue boys, all that I have seen have been toting very new M4A2 weapons...
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 7:03:39 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ldb:
Originally Posted By EL_TIRADOR: Not quite! Our body armor prevents us from getting a good stock weld! Here are some pics from my current location..... www.airfieldops.com Dave
View Quote
Lots of cool photos but none that illustrated what was discussed in the thread. Can someone point to some that do? I'm curious about it and don't know if I'm visualizing the right thing or not. Thanks.
View Quote
Here's one I rounded up. USMC SDM. [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/049078.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 10:12:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/23/2003 4:08:14 AM EDT by JzeMarksman]
Wouldn't having the weapon issued with a telescopic stock address the issue with the use of it with body armor. If the Gov't wouldn't outfit the weapons with the modification would the troops then be allowed to modify their weapons to be more combat effective or is that a no go. BTW in the photo with the AT-4 I think the guy in the background might want to choose a better standing spot, if that AT-4 were to be fired, he'd probably be slightly pissed and crispy.[pissed]
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 11:09:21 PM EDT
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