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Posted: 6/19/2003 5:42:48 AM EDT
When I first got hit with the AR bug, I wanted to go big and busy - SS bull barrel, free float RAS, optics, bipod, forward grip, ACE stock, etc., etc.

But after doing some research and spending an inordinate amount of time on this board, I find myself starting to swing in the other direction (NO, this is not another gay thread!). What I mean is simplicity -

My current project is an M4gery, and I'm thinking of making it as simple as possible - stock M4 handguards, old style 4 pos stock, iron sites, and leave it alone. No bells & whistles & shit.

Any other simple "converts" out there?
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 5:52:21 AM EDT
I prefer basic/lightweight myself. My primary reason for building an AR is that I wanted an all-around robust rifle (as I'm really a handgun fanatic). I never cared much for rifles, but always wanted a good backpacking/ranch rifle and wasn't satisfied with the accuracy of other choices, ie. Ruger Mini-14, AK's, SKS. My M15A2, 16" fits the bill perfectly--nothing but a sling on it....
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 5:54:21 AM EDT
my A2 clone is just that.. plain and simple.... but I do have a CAR with lots of toys [:D]
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 5:56:40 AM EDT
I know what you mean. Not that I don't see the allure in a lot of the really cool "tricked out" weapons I've seen here. I first fell in love with AR's long ago and still think the "simpler" ones are pretty cool and very functional. In reality though I'm gonna spend my hard earned cash on a little bit of both. Sigh!!!!! So many guns.....so many accessories....so much ammo......so little time and money!!!!!!!!
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 5:57:47 AM EDT
A real M4 would have a 6-pos stock. My theory about rifle complexity is pretty simple...if the hardware will help save my life some day (in one capacity or another) I'll put it on the rifle. This includes scope, mag cinch, tactical light, and some minor hardware changes. I've been contemplating the free floating barrel both because it improves accuracy and gives me more room to put useful hardware. Things I probably will never put on my AR include forward grip (it looks badass but I shoot better without one), match hardware (trigger, sights, etc.), SIR system (too much weight+cost to look badass), and various pairs of panties (mag pouch, cheek rest, etc.)
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 5:58:00 AM EDT
both my ar, have no gadgets on them, im wanting a third and i am leaning really hard on a sp1 type or somthing that looks like a sp1 but does have the brass deflector since im left handed. Or i want a real lite weight carbine but i feal my sell being pulled to the sp1. i like them simple. Ronald
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 6:00:07 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2003 6:01:01 AM EDT by Feedingcannibal]
Originally Posted By Snark1: In reality though I'm gonna spend my hard earned cash on a little bit of both.
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Aaaahh, good point. That's what I was thinking... one with good optics & goodies, one bare bones.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 6:01:16 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jzdziarski: A real M4 would have a 6-pos stock. My theory about rifle complexity is pretty simple...if the hardware will help save my life some day (in one capacity or another) I'll put it on the rifle. This includes scope, mag cinch, tactical light, and some minor hardware changes. I've been contemplating the free floating barrel both because it improves accuracy and gives me more room to put useful hardware. Things I probably will never put on my AR include forward grip (it looks badass but I shoot better without one), match hardware (trigger, sights, etc.), SIR system (too much weight+cost to look badass), and various pairs of panties (mag pouch, cheek rest, etc.)
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Ditto on the forward grip. I know a lot of people like them, but they just feel clumsy to me.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 6:05:28 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Feedingcannibal:
Originally Posted By Snark1: In reality though I'm gonna spend my hard earned cash on a little bit of both.
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Aaaahh, good point. That's what I was thinking... one with good optics & goodies, one bare bones.
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Yeah but that doesn't make an even dozen. I'm thinking loooooong term here....like a year or two.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 6:55:22 AM EDT
Gotta have a little of both. I have a pre-ban M4gery 14.5" phantom FS with RAS/M900A/EOTech/ARMS #40/6 pos. tele. as a goto for home defense - bad boy/freak out the liberals type gun. I also have a BM post-ban 16" with RAS II/TA31/ACE Stock for a bit more reach. And last but not at all least is a Colt pre-ban 20" A3 with nothing but a CH w/A2 Irons. That last one is purely for sentimental reasons... Just brings back memories from the old Army days. I love shooting all of them.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 6:56:07 AM EDT
Originally Posted By jzdziarski: A real M4 would have a 6-pos stock.
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4 positions
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 7:11:20 AM EDT
Plain, simple and lightweight. [:D] I might mess around with different slings or grips, but I like the plain old A2's, However, I am planning on getting a compact ACOG that could be used on whichever rifle I choose. [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=4640[/img]
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 7:13:26 AM EDT
Some people do put WAAAAAAAY to much stuff on their AR`s! I have 4 AR`s and I`ve done very little to each of them. 1. D-rings in all of them. 2. Accu-wedge in my older two. 3. Slip over flash suppressor for my Preban Colt, to give it that XM-177 look. And thats it.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 7:20:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2003 7:21:28 AM EDT by KODoc]
[img]http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL99/1184889/2242371/27098843.jpg[/img] KISS Colt rifle
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 7:46:48 AM EDT
20" A4 with detatchable carry handle modified for IBZ. It'll hit anything, and I don't have to buy batteries. CQB is what handguns are for.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 7:53:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2003 7:53:38 AM EDT by Yojimbo]
Is this simple enough? [:D] It's only two pins and 10 seconds away anytime I want to go back...[;)] [img]http://a4.cpimg.com/image/34/43/10072884-a7b7-02000180-.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 8:48:51 AM EDT
I like simple AR's as well. The only thing I like to add to them is optics. I think one of the most beautiful rifles I've ever seen is the plain jane Rock River Arms TASC rifle. It has a 16" barrel with mid-length handguards and an A2 stock. Mid-length handguards are the way to go if you have a 16" barrel with A2 buttstock. Carbine and M4 handguards just look weird unless there is a telestock to go with them.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 8:58:58 AM EDT
[b]K[/b]eep [b]I[/b]t [b]S[/b]imple [b]S[/b]tupid I also tend towards lighter , more maneuverable weapons and love rifles, especially the AR15. All 4 of mine are carbines--lightweight and 3 M4's. I am now getting a Trijicon Ta-31 to mount on top of one. This will be a real breakthrough for me. I have never owned a scope before. I am also going to get a gov't profile upper. Why? Just because![:D]
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 9:07:39 AM EDT
The more crap you hang off of it, the more likely it is to break when you need it. Say what you will, but Kalashnikov got it right the first time. It don't have to shoot MOA to be effective. Minute of bad guy is more than sufficient for most purposes. That said, my 20"bar is factory stock, and only thing on my 16" CAR is a gooseneck mount with OKO site. Simple milspec slings on both.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 9:51:10 AM EDT
FeedingCannibal, I must admit I'm exactly the same way. I only own one so far, and it's just what I wanted. Simple, stock M4 post-ban (couldn't afford a pre-ban.) My goal is to become as accurate as possible just with the cool A2 sites. Maybe I'll buy a suped up version some day, but I know my initial purchase was for a lightweight (I'll never buy an H-bar! I hate those!) simple A2, and that's what I got. [img]http://www.anthonyjosephevans.com/gun/IM000429.JPG[/img] By the way, I'm drooling over Spectre's rifles! Those are beauties! Anthony
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 10:03:08 AM EDT
[image]http://www.wideopenwest.com/~otter/jtkit_rifle3.jpg[/image] I too think simpler is better. The "tricked out" rifles look cool, but remind me of soething the Borg would carry. Always takes me a minute to see the rifle under all the stuff. I happen to like the lines of a fairly basic AR. Sling, Holosight, and maybe a Hogue grip are the only other things to (maybe) add. (Got too good a deal on the ACE to pass it up.) --Otter
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 10:21:48 AM EDT
I'd like the simplest AR possible , an SP-1
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 10:51:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2003 10:53:36 AM EDT by SteveinAz]
Mid-length CAR HBAR, Glock 17: [img]http://personal.riverusers.com/~brogers/m15a2_glock17_01.jpg[/img] Simple enough?
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 11:13:06 AM EDT
Don't underestimate the value of a weapon mounted light if you ever intend to use it in a defensive roll at home after dark or unlit house. If it will be just for plinking then a light is of little use.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 11:20:57 AM EDT
Originally Posted By BillSP1: Don't underestimate the value of a weapon mounted light if you ever intend to use it in a defensive roll at home after dark or unlit house. If it will be just for plinking then a light is of little use.
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That is a good point. Been thinking about that myself lately but a good light is mucho deneiro and then I'd probably want an RAS(14 more oz of weight0 and now I'm into $700-800 to hang a light off the damn thing.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 11:24:33 AM EDT
Spectre, I'm soooo jealous of the 20" you got on the top. I'm aiming for a 20" ( service rifle comp ) A@, but I can't have the flash hider and infamous - drive-by-bayonetting lug... CT has such stupid AS rules..
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 11:28:39 AM EDT
I like simple ARs.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 11:50:26 AM EDT
I agree that that stock look is very good, and my third AR will be either stock M16A2 clone or M4A1 clone. But I do insist on installing a mil-spec handguard with lots of holes on it, like RAS or SIR (RAS might be preffered because of more traditional look). FF or not I don't care (although FF is better money spent) They really help in barrel cooling when you shoot two 20 round magazines straight in the summer.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 11:50:50 AM EDT
I only have one simple AR that I just completed. It's a preban Oly lower with J&T upper. My other ARs have those fancy accessories. [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid65/p7b4c972a45499e6639eddf68a7404f9e/fbe4e934.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 11:58:50 AM EDT
Stevie, Love your Mid-Length CAR, but did you have to obscure the view with your pistol? ;) I only own two guns. My AR15, and my stainless steel Colt .45 auto. Anthony
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 12:08:55 PM EDT
Alright, I'll stir this nest![;)] I think anyone who likes the simple rifles are just upset cause they don't have the cash to buy all those accessories[:D] I know this cause I'm one of them. So yes I like em simple...and heavily accessorized!
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 12:13:09 PM EDT
[b]
Originally Posted By Feedingcannibal: Aaaahh, good point. That's what I was thinking... one with good optics & goodies, one bare bones.
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[/b] Different tasks for different uppers: 1. M4 with ACOG and suppressor. 2. 11.5" with SIR and Aimpoint with vertical grip. 3. CAR 15, naked.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 12:31:45 PM EDT
i 2 like the stock look. Some of the Ar's i have seen on here, just look over loaded. Nothing against the owner. I am Buying my first ar, with will be basicly a stock DPMS m4 with and a3 upper. Ill change the stock to a 6 postion one a few weeks after i get mine.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 12:34:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hokie: Alright, I'll stir this nest![;)] [red]I think anyone who likes the simple rifles are just upset cause they don't have the cash to buy all those accessories[/red][:D] I know this cause I'm one of them. So yes I like em simple...and heavily accessorized!
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Not in my case. I could build pretty much any type of rifle/upper I want. I just prefer them simple. I have considered building a flat top upper for my bushy and getting a TA31 for it and a simple surefire set up, but that would be it. I have shot many of the SIR/KAC/RAS/ alphabet rifles and found them bulky and overweight. To each his own, that's the great thing about the AR system anyway !! [:D]
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 12:53:50 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BillSP1: Don't underestimate the value of a weapon mounted light if you ever intend to use it in a defensive roll at home after dark or unlit house. If it will be just for plinking then a light is of little use.
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Question. do you need the light on your target so that you can aim at it with iron sights? With an Eotech/Aimpoint you can aim at anything you can see, no matter how dimly lit the target is. For instance, if someone broke into my home and I walk down the steps with a light on my gun he is going to see me coming. With my Eotech I can stay in the dark and as long as I can see him in the room all I do is put the red dot on him and fire. THATS simple. B^)
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 1:26:26 PM EDT
You can use the light to blind your enemy, and no one keeps it turned on the whole time.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 1:27:37 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DaPhotoGuy:
Originally Posted By BillSP1: Don't underestimate the value of a weapon mounted light if you ever intend to use it in a defensive roll at home after dark or unlit house. If it will be just for plinking then a light is of little use.
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Question. do you need the light on your target so that you can aim at it with iron sights? With an Eotech/Aimpoint you can aim at anything you can see, no matter how dimly lit the target is. For instance, if someone broke into my home and I walk down the steps with a light on my gun he is going to see me coming. With my Eotech I can stay in the dark and as long as I can see him in the room all I do is put the red dot on him and fire. THATS simple. B^)
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That scenario could play itself out in several ways. First the bad guy could hear your movements up stairs and decide he wants to ambush you. With out a light source to inspect the corners of rooms and behind obstacles you may not be able to use your nice little red aiming reticule to aim with. Also consider how much longer it would take you to acquire your target in a near dark room compared to flashing the area with 60+ lumens of light. Second, target identification is always a plus. Do not forget about possible obstacles in your way as you move through a black house. Sure you might be able to turn on a light, but what if that light switch is just inside of the room where the intruder is waiting? You would have to enter the room then flip the switch. If you have a light turned on behind you, you will present a nice sillouhette for the bad guy to shoot. Lights are a must for any rifle that is intended to be used as a self defense weapon. Remeber that bad guys don't always come during the day. The Azalin
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 1:32:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2003 1:38:48 PM EDT by blikbok]
Originally Posted By DaPhotoGuy: Question. do you need the light on your target so that you can aim at it with iron sights?
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No, the light is for target identification. Who you are shooting at rather than where you are aiming.
With an Eotech/Aimpoint you can aim at anything you can see, no matter how dimly lit the target is. For instance, if someone broke into my home and I walk down the steps with a light on my gun he is going to see me coming. With my Eotech I can stay in the dark and as long as I can see him in the room all I do is put the red dot on him and fire.
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But you are assuming that you can see the target. Most weaponlights are for momentary use and target illumination, not constand-on and navigation. The light on the rifle gives you control of light. You create daytime, you create shadows. Very hard to do that with an overhead bulb. Back OT: I like the simple rifles too. I try to maintain a balance between money spent on ammo and money spent on accessories. I'm too tempted to buy stuff than practice marksmanship. :)
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 2:10:19 PM EDT
Simple... that's what the AR was supposed to be. Other than 2 AR's tricked out as heavy barrel varmint rigs, all my AR's are plain and simple... I need to take some new pix... [;)] [img]img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/122167/KKF07.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 2:14:55 PM EDT
I like the looks of a stock AR. I do have a First samco vertical grip on my M4gery, the rest are all stock. If you like accessories why not get them. If you like stock that's fine to.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 2:39:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/19/2003 2:40:07 PM EDT by ch139]
If or when the AWB goes away I’d like to build a SBR with a 10 or 11.5-inch lightweight commando with an A1 upper (I’m not going to spend the money on another pre-ban + $200). Nice and light, compact and simple. The only thing that is a must have is a shell deflector, I’m left handed. I have also come to like the Trijicon front sights, that might also be necessary. Best Regards, C
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 2:55:00 PM EDT
The only extra thing on my AR's are optics and a sling.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 5:06:30 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SteveinAz: Mid-length CAR HBAR, Glock 17: [url]http://personal.riverusers.com/~brogers/m15a2_glock17_01.jpg[/url] Simple enough?
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SteveinAz, where did you get those H/G's? Are they the M4 type? Like to get one if possible. Exnavarm
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 5:30:22 PM EDT
Originally Posted By SPECTRE:
To each his own, that's the great thing about the AR system anyway!
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Couldn't agree more!
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 6:46:31 PM EDT
I agree totally. All my uppers are even A1 style. The only add on I have on my ARs is an AAC Ranger Suppressor on one and a Colt 4x20 carry handle scope on the other, and nothing on the other two. I too like them simple and lightweight. That is what an AR-15 is for IMHO.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 6:58:10 PM EDT
Plain irons on this one. Too cheap to buy an Aimpoint for it. Works fine for me. [img]http://home.attbi.com/~s0ulzer0/pixx/Eagle01.jpg[/img] ~ s0ulzer0
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 7:07:41 PM EDT
On my M4gery Ihave an aimpoint mounted in the handle and a trijicon front site should the optics die and thats for night time shooting/low visibility. day time its plain with just fat M4 handgaurds stowaway grip for spare bolt,firing pin,disconector it has a heavy barrel.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 8:11:56 PM EDT
SP-1. Simple as it gets. The Bushy preban DCM, the DPMS, and the RRA are all simple as well, the only add-on being a front pistol grip on the RRA. I do have plans for another upper for the Bushy though. 14.5" M4 with a bunch of crap on it - just for fun. Not sure what to put on it yet though.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 5:45:26 AM EDT
I am another believer in simple. My 16" A2 Bushy only has a light attatched to it. (A light is a necessity for a self defense carbine) I saw people with lots of happy horse sh*t mounted to their guns at Blackwater. Aimpoints, RAS setups, ACOGs, full auto M4's... They didn't shoot as well as I did most of the time. If your AR is a TOOL then only take what you need. If your AR is a TOY then be the biggest gear queer on the block. I will just spend that money on another Garand... [:D] The only really useful accessories for an AR is a light and an ACOG if you are planning to shoot at more than 100 yards. Closer than that the iron sights are better.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 6:25:53 AM EDT
Originally Posted By John_Wayne777: The only really useful accessories for an AR is a light and an ACOG
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I definately agree. Also, the rifleman must become competant with the bare rifle. First the accessories could fail. Secondly, they can only enhance what capability already exists in the shooter and the rifle. I also get a little kick out of shooting in competitions with the "stock"est gun. DCM with a 16" carbine anyone? When I can shoot bowling pin matches, I enjoy the snubby revolver class. Short barrel, fixed sights, five shots, five pins.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 6:33:40 AM EDT
Haven't added a thing to my Bushmaster M4. I like it just the way it is. I did modify my 16" Oly away from an A2 buttstock to green M4 furniture but no other addittions. I find I am much more comfortable with iron sights for fast reaction especially from a carry position. Tj
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