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Posted: 6/19/2003 5:42:48 AM EDT
When I first got hit with the AR bug, I wanted to go big and busy - SS bull barrel, free float RAS, optics, bipod, forward grip, ACE stock, etc., etc.
But after doing some research and spending an inordinate amount of time on this board, I find myself starting to swing in the other direction (NO, this is not another gay thread!). What I mean is simplicity - My current project is an M4gery, and I'm thinking of making it as simple as possible - stock M4 handguards, old style 4 pos stock, iron sites, and leave it alone. No bells & whistles & shit. Any other simple "converts" out there? |
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I prefer basic/lightweight myself. My primary reason for building an AR is that I wanted an all-around robust rifle (as I'm really a handgun fanatic). I never cared much for rifles, but always wanted a good backpacking/ranch rifle and wasn't satisfied with the accuracy of other choices, ie. Ruger Mini-14, AK's, SKS. My M15A2, 16" fits the bill perfectly--nothing but a sling on it....
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my A2 clone is just that.. plain and simple....
but I do have a CAR with lots of toys [:D] |
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I know what you mean. Not that I don't see the allure in a lot of the really cool "tricked out" weapons I've seen here. I first fell in love with AR's long ago and still think the "simpler" ones are pretty cool and very functional. In reality though I'm gonna spend my hard earned cash on a little bit of both. Sigh!!!!! So many guns.....so many accessories....so much ammo......so little time and money!!!!!!!!
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A real M4 would have a 6-pos stock.
My theory about rifle complexity is pretty simple...if the hardware will help save my life some day (in one capacity or another) I'll put it on the rifle. This includes scope, mag cinch, tactical light, and some minor hardware changes. I've been contemplating the free floating barrel both because it improves accuracy and gives me more room to put useful hardware. Things I probably will never put on my AR include forward grip (it looks badass but I shoot better without one), match hardware (trigger, sights, etc.), SIR system (too much weight+cost to look badass), and various pairs of panties (mag pouch, cheek rest, etc.) |
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both my ar, have no gadgets on them, im wanting a third and i am leaning really hard on a sp1 type or somthing that looks like a sp1 but does have the brass deflector since im left handed. Or i want a real lite weight carbine but i feal my sell being pulled to the sp1. i like them simple. Ronald
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Quoted: In reality though I'm gonna spend my hard earned cash on a little bit of both. View Quote Aaaahh, good point. That's what I was thinking... one with good optics & goodies, one bare bones. |
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Quoted: A real M4 would have a 6-pos stock. My theory about rifle complexity is pretty simple...if the hardware will help save my life some day (in one capacity or another) I'll put it on the rifle. This includes scope, mag cinch, tactical light, and some minor hardware changes. I've been contemplating the free floating barrel both because it improves accuracy and gives me more room to put useful hardware. Things I probably will never put on my AR include forward grip (it looks badass but I shoot better without one), match hardware (trigger, sights, etc.), SIR system (too much weight+cost to look badass), and various pairs of panties (mag pouch, cheek rest, etc.) View Quote Ditto on the forward grip. I know a lot of people like them, but they just feel clumsy to me. |
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Quoted: Quoted: In reality though I'm gonna spend my hard earned cash on a little bit of both. View Quote Aaaahh, good point. That's what I was thinking... one with good optics & goodies, one bare bones. View Quote Yeah but that doesn't make an even dozen. I'm thinking loooooong term here....like a year or two. |
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Gotta have a little of both. I have a pre-ban M4gery 14.5" phantom FS with RAS/M900A/EOTech/ARMS #40/6 pos. tele. as a goto for home defense - bad boy/freak out the liberals type gun. I also have a BM post-ban 16" with RAS II/TA31/ACE Stock for a bit more reach. And last but not at all least is a Colt pre-ban 20" A3 with nothing but a CH w/A2 Irons. That last one is purely for sentimental reasons... Just brings back memories from the old Army days. I love shooting all of them.
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Quoted: A real M4 would have a 6-pos stock. View Quote 4 positions |
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Plain, simple and lightweight. [:D]
I might mess around with different slings or grips, but I like the plain old A2's, However, I am planning on getting a compact ACOG that could be used on whichever rifle I choose. [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=4640[/img] |
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Some people do put WAAAAAAAY to much stuff on their AR`s! I have 4 AR`s and I`ve done very little to each of them.
1. D-rings in all of them. 2. Accu-wedge in my older two. 3. Slip over flash suppressor for my Preban Colt, to give it that XM-177 look. And thats it. |
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[img]http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL99/1184889/2242371/27098843.jpg[/img]
KISS Colt rifle |
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20" A4 with detatchable carry handle modified for IBZ. It'll hit anything, and I don't have to buy batteries. CQB is what handguns are for.
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Is this simple enough? [:D] It's only two pins and 10 seconds away anytime I want to go back...[;)]
[img]http://a4.cpimg.com/image/34/43/10072884-a7b7-02000180-.jpg[/img] |
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I like simple AR's as well. The only thing I like to add to them is optics. I think one of the most beautiful rifles I've ever seen is the plain jane Rock River Arms TASC rifle. It has a 16" barrel with mid-length handguards and an A2 stock. Mid-length handguards are the way to go if you have a 16" barrel with A2 buttstock. Carbine and M4 handguards just look weird unless there is a telestock to go with them.
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[b]K[/b]eep
[b]I[/b]t [b]S[/b]imple [b]S[/b]tupid I also tend towards lighter , more maneuverable weapons and love rifles, especially the AR15. All 4 of mine are carbines--lightweight and 3 M4's. I am now getting a Trijicon Ta-31 to mount on top of one. This will be a real breakthrough for me. I have never owned a scope before. I am also going to get a gov't profile upper. Why? Just because![:D] |
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The more crap you hang off of it, the more likely it is to break when you need it. Say what you will, but Kalashnikov got it right the first time. It don't have to shoot MOA to be effective. Minute of bad guy is more than sufficient for most purposes. That said, my 20"bar is factory stock, and only thing on my 16" CAR is a gooseneck mount with OKO site. Simple milspec slings on both.
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FeedingCannibal,
I must admit I'm exactly the same way. I only own one so far, and it's just what I wanted. Simple, stock M4 post-ban (couldn't afford a pre-ban.) My goal is to become as accurate as possible just with the cool A2 sites. Maybe I'll buy a suped up version some day, but I know my initial purchase was for a lightweight (I'll never buy an H-bar! I hate those!) simple A2, and that's what I got. [img]http://www.anthonyjosephevans.com/gun/IM000429.JPG[/img] By the way, I'm drooling over Spectre's rifles! Those are beauties! Anthony |
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[image]http://www.wideopenwest.com/~otter/jtkit_rifle3.jpg[/image]
I too think simpler is better. The "tricked out" rifles look cool, but remind me of soething the Borg would carry. Always takes me a minute to see the rifle under all the stuff. I happen to like the lines of a fairly basic AR. Sling, Holosight, and maybe a Hogue grip are the only other things to (maybe) add. (Got too good a deal on the ACE to pass it up.) --Otter |
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Mid-length CAR HBAR, Glock 17:
[img]http://personal.riverusers.com/~brogers/m15a2_glock17_01.jpg[/img] Simple enough? |
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Don't underestimate the value of a weapon mounted light if you ever intend to use it in a defensive roll at home after dark or unlit house. If it will be just for plinking then a light is of little use.
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Quoted: Don't underestimate the value of a weapon mounted light if you ever intend to use it in a defensive roll at home after dark or unlit house. If it will be just for plinking then a light is of little use. View Quote That is a good point. Been thinking about that myself lately but a good light is mucho deneiro and then I'd probably want an RAS(14 more oz of weight0 and now I'm into $700-800 to hang a light off the damn thing. |
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Spectre, I'm soooo jealous of the 20" you got on the top. I'm aiming for a 20" ( service rifle comp ) A@, but I can't have the flash hider and infamous - drive-by-bayonetting lug... CT has such stupid AS rules..
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I agree that that stock look is very good, and my third AR will be either stock M16A2 clone or M4A1 clone.
But I do insist on installing a mil-spec handguard with lots of holes on it, like RAS or SIR (RAS might be preffered because of more traditional look). FF or not I don't care (although FF is better money spent) They really help in barrel cooling when you shoot two 20 round magazines straight in the summer. |
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I only have one simple AR that I just completed. It's a preban Oly lower with J&T upper. My other ARs have those fancy accessories.
[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid65/p7b4c972a45499e6639eddf68a7404f9e/fbe4e934.jpg[/img] |
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Stevie,
Love your Mid-Length CAR, but did you have to obscure the view with your pistol? ;) I only own two guns. My AR15, and my stainless steel Colt .45 auto. Anthony |
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Alright, I'll stir this nest![;)]
I think anyone who likes the simple rifles are just upset cause they don't have the cash to buy all those accessories[:D] I know this cause I'm one of them. So yes I like em simple...and heavily accessorized! |
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Quoted: Aaaahh, good point. That's what I was thinking... one with good optics & goodies, one bare bones. View Quote Different tasks for different uppers: 1. M4 with ACOG and suppressor. 2. 11.5" with SIR and Aimpoint with vertical grip. 3. CAR 15, naked. |
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i 2 like the stock look. Some of the Ar's i have seen on here, just look over loaded. Nothing against the owner. I am Buying my first ar, with will be basicly a stock DPMS m4 with and a3 upper. Ill change the stock to a 6 postion one a few weeks after i get mine.
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Quoted: Alright, I'll stir this nest![;)] [red]I think anyone who likes the simple rifles are just upset cause they don't have the cash to buy all those accessories[/red][:D] I know this cause I'm one of them. So yes I like em simple...and heavily accessorized! View Quote Not in my case. I could build pretty much any type of rifle/upper I want. I just prefer them simple. I have considered building a flat top upper for my bushy and getting a TA31 for it and a simple surefire set up, but that would be it. I have shot many of the SIR/KAC/RAS/ alphabet rifles and found them bulky and overweight. To each his own, that's the great thing about the AR system anyway !! [:D] |
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Quoted: Don't underestimate the value of a weapon mounted light if you ever intend to use it in a defensive roll at home after dark or unlit house. If it will be just for plinking then a light is of little use. View Quote Question. do you need the light on your target so that you can aim at it with iron sights? With an Eotech/Aimpoint you can aim at anything you can see, no matter how dimly lit the target is. For instance, if someone broke into my home and I walk down the steps with a light on my gun he is going to see me coming. With my Eotech I can stay in the dark and as long as I can see him in the room all I do is put the red dot on him and fire. THATS simple. B^) |
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You can use the light to blind your enemy, and no one keeps it turned on the whole time.
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Quoted: Quoted: Don't underestimate the value of a weapon mounted light if you ever intend to use it in a defensive roll at home after dark or unlit house. If it will be just for plinking then a light is of little use. View Quote Question. do you need the light on your target so that you can aim at it with iron sights? With an Eotech/Aimpoint you can aim at anything you can see, no matter how dimly lit the target is. For instance, if someone broke into my home and I walk down the steps with a light on my gun he is going to see me coming. With my Eotech I can stay in the dark and as long as I can see him in the room all I do is put the red dot on him and fire. THATS simple. B^) View Quote That scenario could play itself out in several ways. First the bad guy could hear your movements up stairs and decide he wants to ambush you. With out a light source to inspect the corners of rooms and behind obstacles you may not be able to use your nice little red aiming reticule to aim with. Also consider how much longer it would take you to acquire your target in a near dark room compared to flashing the area with 60+ lumens of light. Second, target identification is always a plus. Do not forget about possible obstacles in your way as you move through a black house. Sure you might be able to turn on a light, but what if that light switch is just inside of the room where the intruder is waiting? You would have to enter the room then flip the switch. If you have a light turned on behind you, you will present a nice sillouhette for the bad guy to shoot. Lights are a must for any rifle that is intended to be used as a self defense weapon. Remeber that bad guys don't always come during the day. The Azalin |
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Quoted: Question. do you need the light on your target so that you can aim at it with iron sights? View Quote No, the light is for target identification. Who you are shooting at rather than where you are aiming. With an Eotech/Aimpoint you can aim at anything you can see, no matter how dimly lit the target is. For instance, if someone broke into my home and I walk down the steps with a light on my gun he is going to see me coming. With my Eotech I can stay in the dark and as long as I can see him in the room all I do is put the red dot on him and fire. View Quote But you are assuming that you can see the target. Most weaponlights are for momentary use and target illumination, not constand-on and navigation. The light on the rifle gives you control of light. You create daytime, you create shadows. Very hard to do that with an overhead bulb. Back OT: I like the simple rifles too. I try to maintain a balance between money spent on ammo and money spent on accessories. I'm too tempted to buy stuff than practice marksmanship. :) |
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Simple... that's what the AR was supposed to be. Other than 2 AR's tricked out as heavy barrel varmint rigs, all my AR's are plain and simple... I need to take some new pix... [;)]
[img]img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-5/122167/KKF07.jpg[/img] |
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I like the looks of a stock AR. I do have a First samco vertical grip on my M4gery, the rest are all stock. If you like accessories why not get them. If you like stock that's fine to.
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If or when the AWB goes away I’d like to build a SBR with a 10 or 11.5-inch lightweight commando with an A1 upper (I’m not going to spend the money on another pre-ban + $200). Nice and light, compact and simple. The only thing that is a must have is a shell deflector, I’m left handed. I have also come to like the Trijicon front sights, that might also be necessary.
Best Regards, C |
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Quoted: Mid-length CAR HBAR, Glock 17: [url]http://personal.riverusers.com/~brogers/m15a2_glock17_01.jpg[/url] Simple enough? View Quote SteveinAz, where did you get those H/G's? Are they the M4 type? Like to get one if possible. Exnavarm |
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Quoted: To each his own, that's the great thing about the AR system anyway! View Quote View Quote Couldn't agree more! |
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I agree totally.
All my uppers are even A1 style. The only add on I have on my ARs is an AAC Ranger Suppressor on one and a Colt 4x20 carry handle scope on the other, and nothing on the other two. I too like them simple and lightweight. That is what an AR-15 is for IMHO. |
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Plain irons on this one. Too cheap to buy an Aimpoint for it. Works fine for me.
[img]http://home.attbi.com/~s0ulzer0/pixx/Eagle01.jpg[/img] ~ s0ulzer0 |
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On my M4gery Ihave an aimpoint mounted in the handle and a trijicon front site should the optics die and thats for night time shooting/low visibility. day time its plain with just fat M4 handgaurds stowaway grip for spare bolt,firing pin,disconector it has a heavy barrel.
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SP-1. Simple as it gets.
The Bushy preban DCM, the DPMS, and the RRA are all simple as well, the only add-on being a front pistol grip on the RRA. I do have plans for another upper for the Bushy though. 14.5" M4 with a bunch of crap on it - just for fun. Not sure what to put on it yet though. |
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I am another believer in simple. My 16" A2 Bushy only has a light attatched to it. (A light is a necessity for a self defense carbine)
I saw people with lots of happy horse sh*t mounted to their guns at Blackwater. Aimpoints, RAS setups, ACOGs, full auto M4's... They didn't shoot as well as I did most of the time. If your AR is a TOOL then only take what you need. If your AR is a TOY then be the biggest gear queer on the block. I will just spend that money on another Garand... [:D] The only really useful accessories for an AR is a light and an ACOG if you are planning to shoot at more than 100 yards. Closer than that the iron sights are better. |
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Quoted: The only really useful accessories for an AR is a light and an ACOG View Quote I definately agree. Also, the rifleman must become competant with the bare rifle. First the accessories could fail. Secondly, they can only enhance what capability already exists in the shooter and the rifle. I also get a little kick out of shooting in competitions with the "stock"est gun. DCM with a 16" carbine anyone? When I can shoot bowling pin matches, I enjoy the snubby revolver class. Short barrel, fixed sights, five shots, five pins. |
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Haven't added a thing to my Bushmaster M4. I like it just the way it is.
I did modify my 16" Oly away from an A2 buttstock to green M4 furniture but no other addittions. I find I am much more comfortable with iron sights for fast reaction especially from a carry position. Tj |
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