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Posted: 6/18/2003 9:12:30 AM EDT
Sorry for the dumb question, but what is a 50 Beowulf? Is there factory ammo for it?

Thank you
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 9:27:05 AM EDT
[url]www.google.com[/url] I would answer if I know... I replied in another thread (With genuine ?) about differences in ballistics (a better, hard to find, more appropriate question)
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 9:48:33 AM EDT
[url]http://www.alexanderarms.com/beowulf.html[/url] [img]http://www.alexanderarms.com/images/ammo.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 10:42:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2003 10:43:48 AM EDT by ANGST]
This : [img]http://server.burbclave.net/~sk8r/beowulf.jpg[/img] [img]http://server.burbclave.net/~sk8r/beowulf2.jpg[/img] I've had it for a little while now going to shoot it for the second time tonight. Only factory ammo for it is Alexander Arms stuff, but they sell brass and dies. I will know how well my reloads work later this evening.
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 11:33:21 AM EDT
400 Grain JHP. Ok i am scared.
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 3:01:56 PM EDT
Lets see, it uses 50AE projectiles...so.... 300, 325, 334, 350, and 400 grn bullets in SP, JHP, they also have a All copper projectile. This is a massive deer gun....cant wait...
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 4:03:50 PM EDT
I believe it uses .50 Beowulf ammo not .50 AE.
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 4:36:16 PM EDT
Cartridge is the .50 Beowulf , when loading bullets you can use the same types of projectiles you load into a .50 AE cartridge (or .500 S&W)
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 5:01:18 PM EDT
Can you purchase just the upper? And if so, will any lower work? Thank you,
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 5:43:22 PM EDT
You can buy the uppers from Cabela's for sure, and probably from Alexander Arms - check out the link above. They should work with any AR lower.
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 5:52:03 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 5:52:32 PM EDT
Angst: I would be willing to bet you are utilizing the standard buffer and buffer spring in the Beowulf I shot tonight...huh? I bet the reason both LS's and my 458 SOCOM had a push rather than sharp recoil was the heavier CAR weight buffer. I was also thinking you could use a pneumatic buffer to tame that a bit. Just the benefit of thinking on it while driving home. Ed
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 5:53:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By eswanson: You can buy the uppers from Cabela's for sure, and probably from Alexander Arms - check out the link above. They should work with any AR lower.
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AA will not sell directly to the public unless they have no dealer nearby. However, Cabela's and Impact Guns has them in stock with ammo available. Ed
Link Posted: 6/18/2003 5:56:24 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Aimless: Tromix sells a 458 socom upper [url]http://www.tromix.com/Welcome.htm[/url] Cor-Bon sells commercially loaded ammo for it, together with reloading supplies. I don't have one, they sort of look like semi-automatic 45-70s, large caliber heavy bullets.
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Corbon will be selling ammo shortly. Brass is supposedly being delayed again. [url=www.teppojutsu.com]TeppoJutsu[/url], [url=www.tromix.com]Tromix[/url] and SSK Industries sell 458 Uppers. TeppoJutsu's proprietor is the "brains" behind the SOCOM round. Ed
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 4:59:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SHIVAN458: Angst: I would be willing to bet you are utilizing the standard buffer and buffer spring in the Beowulf I shot tonight...huh? I bet the reason both LS's and my 458 SOCOM had a push rather than sharp recoil was the heavier CAR weight buffer. I was also thinking you could use a pneumatic buffer to tame that a bit. Just the benefit of thinking on it while driving home. Ed
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Yup exactly , I was thinking about pnuematic, didn't even think of trying a CAR buffer.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 5:51:52 AM EDT
if you are using a full length buffer tube, dont use a car (short) buffer. it is too short and will allow the gas key to impact the back of the receiver.......You can take a standard long buffer apart and add some weight to the inside......
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 7:09:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By little223shooter: if you are using a full length buffer tube, dont use a car (short) buffer. it is too short and will allow the gas key to impact the back of the receiver.......You can take a standard long buffer apart and add some weight to the inside......
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They also make heavier weight buffers for the full length tubes. IIRC Brownell's carries them. Ed
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 7:54:43 AM EDT
Shiv, I couldn't find a full-length heavy buffer at Brownell's (only the one for the collapsible stock). Any other suggestions? One thing I did find there was a rubber placement recoil pad for the hard plastic one on an A2 stock (stock number 560-153-700). I don't use an A2 stock with my 458 SOCOM, I use an ACE skeleton stock, but if I did use an A2 I would buy one! They're only $12...
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 9:19:05 AM EDT
Originally Posted By NoPlay: Shiv, I couldn't find a full-length heavy buffer at Brownell's (only the one for the collapsible stock). Any other suggestions? One thing I did find there was a rubber placement recoil pad for the hard plastic one on an A2 stock (stock number 560-153-700). I don't use an A2 stock with my 458 SOCOM, I use an ACE skeleton stock, but if I did use an A2 I would buy one! They're only $12...
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Well, hell I just ran through all 28 pages of AR related items and didn't see it. I could have sworn I just saw it yesterday.... Let me look around. I know there is a full length buffer tube available to slow the cyclic rate of FA guns....where is it....I'm not sure. Ed
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 12:52:20 PM EDT
Midway USA sells one called the Counterpoise System. The have one for the rifle # 586-931, and one for the carbine # 142-792. They say it reducing the felt recoil by up to 50% Olympic Arms sells the AC4 Pneumatic Recoil Buffer, and it is adjustable to reduce the recoil. It even can reduce the cyclic rate from 620rpm to 460rpm on a fully automatic AR15.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 4:01:49 PM EDT
JS, I found the Counterpoise at Midway.... one thing you forgot to mention: it's $186!!! Gaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!! [%|] That's a lot of cash. I'll have to keep searching....
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 6:20:31 PM EDT
I have a .50 beowulf upper& have shot it a bunch.I put it on a eagle arms lower & a colt car lower & she Realy Rocks.It will shoot big holes trough 1/2" steel plate.It is very easy to reload for.I use Hodgdon Lilgun powder & 334gr jhp bullets.If anyone is interested in a upper I have one listed in PARTS.I had to buy 3 to become a dealer.I kept 1 sold 1 & have one more for sale.I also have ammo brass bullets & dies.Try one you will get one HELL OF A KICK out of it.
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 8:34:50 PM EDT
I found the Counterpoise at Midway.... one thing you forgot to mention: it's $186!!! Gaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!! My buddy hit Alexander Arms up for their muzzle brake. It works well, but he had to pay them $180 for a hunk of metal!
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 6:48:21 AM EDT
I just don't understand how a load using similar weight projectile 300gr vs. 337gr and using similar powder charge can have such sharply different recoil characteristics. The 458 SOCOM is a heavy push, much more like a light recoil, low noise 20ga sporting clay round. The 50 Beowulf was more like a sharp whack, similar to a 2 3/4" 20ga slug. Both configs were 16" heavy match type barrel shooting from a benchrest position. It is VERY odd. I'm sure the muzzle brake would do some to reduce the recoil, but both Marty ter Weeme and Tony Rumore found the muzzle brakes on the 458 SOCOM didn't do much. Weird, very weird. Ed
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 7:02:50 AM EDT
Ed, what type of muzzle break did the 458 have? Both the .499 and the 50 beo run at lower pressures than the 458 so their breaks have a harder time managing the recoil, I think the .499 has less than 5,000 psi at the muzzle. The reduction in felt recoil on the .499 was about 35% and with the beo we guessed at about 30%. The 458 would seem to have similar muzzle pressures to the 308 so in theory, should work better with a break? Any ideas?
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 10:31:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2003 11:11:01 AM EDT by MartytW]
C'mon, HFG. First the BC statement. Then the rim size. Now pressure. The LW CASE was purposely redesigned to allow higher chamber pressure. It runs at 52,000 psi from what others have been able to determine. The SOCOM uses pistol brass, rated for a meager 35,000 psi. The factory load runs just under that. Combined with the fast burning powder, the muzzle pressure in a 16" carbine is 5,000 psi. For a .308 in a 16" the muzzle pressure using the load recommended by Speer for gas operated semi-auto (168 gr, Varget) is 14,000 psi .... Do me a favor. Check facts before posting. Try asking the guy who developed the round. Regarding reducing felt recoil, installing a Wolff heavy duty buffer spring helps .. edited to correct barrel length for 308
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 10:39:44 AM EDT
Originally Posted By HipFiredGun: [red]what type of muzzle break did the 458 have?[/red]
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All three uppers fired Wednesday were using un-braked muzzles. The Beowulf had their standard heavy, stepped barrel -- A2 config lower, 458S upper #1 was a pac-nor match 16" about .8-1.0 inches in diameter Ace stocked lower with hard rubber pad, 458S upper #2 was a CrMo HBAR with a taper from block to muzzle with an A2 FH and 6pos collapsible CAR stock.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 10:42:26 AM EDT
I also noticed that the Beowulf brass was too hot to touch even seconds after it hit the ground. A lot hotter than 5.56mm brass, way hotter than 458 SOCOM brass. It also scorched the upper 1/4" of the brass neck on one side. Not sure if that is indicative of anything, but it was blistering hot. Any ideas on that?
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 10:46:02 AM EDT
I believe that's indicative of a loose chamber. I was once standing next to a guy with a couple .50's. His AR-50 would toss out brass that you could catch in your hand - not hot at all. His M82A1 would eject smokin' hot brass. His explanation was that the M82, being semi-auto, has a looser chamber, which allows the brass to expand more. When it expands more, it heats up more. In comparison, the tighter chamber of the AR-50 didn't allow the brass to expand and heat up as much.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 10:48:54 AM EDT
I've noticed my .44 mag brass will also scorch like the beowulf does.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 10:54:39 AM EDT
Marty, I'm sorry, we were given the 458 SOCOM chamber pressures by Corbon so I'm a little confused here, from that we guessed at the muzzle pressures, bad assumption it seems. I've seen the actual pressure barrel readings for the .499 which on their hottest load is 32,500 psi, from what you are saying, still below the 458. Out of interest, what did you have to do with the redesign of the .499 case?
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 11:02:32 AM EDT
Ed, noticed that to with the beowulf. Interestingly enough, when we fired it without the gas system and opened the action as quickly as we could manually, the brass was cold, but in semi-auto operation, it comes out hot.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 11:12:22 AM EDT
I think leaving the brass in the barrel for those few seconds allows the barrel to draw the heat off the brass like a heat sink
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 2:09:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2003 2:14:05 PM EDT by 3shotburst]
I think leaving the brass in the barrel for those few seconds allows the barrel to draw the heat off the brass like a heat sink I guess that's the case although we were opening it pretty fast, probably less than a second, just shows I guess how quickly the brass is ejecting. We were running a couple of 308's one gas and one bolt action and no matter how fast we opened the bolt the brass was always cold compared to the gas gun.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 7:58:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By HipFiredGun: Marty, I'm sorry, we were given the 458 SOCOM chamber pressures by Corbon so I'm a little confused here, from that we guessed at the muzzle pressures, bad assumption it seems.
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Ah, CorBon. When I designed the round, I spec'ed it at 35,000 psi, same as the 50AE. The loads we developed were max at 35,000 and we tend to load just under. This is the information we supplied CorBon with. Now, we have NO control over them, so I have no idea what they have been doing with it, or where they came up with their number ... but the original spec is 35,000. Indeed, slightly above the 32,500 you mention for the LW.
Out of interest, what did you have to do with the redesign of the .499 case?
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Not a DARN thing. It just happens that we went shopping for a brass supplier, who developed a means of improving case strength to accomodate the particulars of the SOCOM case. Turns out this development was subsequently applied to the LW case. This is how I know of some of the redesign of the LW case. Plus the fact that the original case was 50AE derived and tapered, and the new case smaller and straight (this latter goes against most prevalent thoughts on "stuck" cases fired at moderate pressure in hot environments (eg the 458 Win Mag on safari) but then again, innovation is all about going against the prevalent theory ....) Back to muzzle brakes, the original start of this. I have to amend Ed's comment. Muzzle brakes do have an effect, even with the 458 SOCOM. However, Tony and I are of the opinion that when weighing pros and cons, we cannot justify the expense and don't recommend it. Recoil is not that bad on this round. You mentioned in another post that the large 4 rail GB partially serves to deflect the blast from the brake going towards the shooter's face. Combined with the dust storm that would result when firing prone, we feel that these are two significant reasons NOT to recommend a muzzle brake. If need be, we can install one. One customer specifically requested the JP Recoil Eliminator on his .458 based on his experience with it on several Ultra Mags. He fired the .458 with and without the JP and commented that it had been a waste of money, and not needed, and not really noticable. From an engineering point of view, assuming the burnt propellant gas at the muzzle in all three rounds has the same density (and therefore pressure, as rho = PM/RT for ideal gas) and viscosity, then the large bore rounds with the higher velocity will display more turbulent behavior and be more prone to divert easily into the ports (Reynolds Number is pressure * velocity * bore diameter/viscosity. If pressure and viscosity are the same, the faster gas in the larger bore has the higher NRe. The higher the NRe, the more turbulent ... the boundary layer phenomena change and the muzzle brake may appear more effective ...) Marty
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 8:03:28 PM EDT
Yeah, yeah, but why did similar loads from a Beowulf and from a 458 SOCOM feel extremely different? The Beowulf felt very sharp, the SOCOM felt like a push.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 8:09:31 PM EDT
Perhaps recoil impulse? mass * velocity. What was the load for the Beowulf? And the SOCOM. It may be that the Beowulf load you fired is more like the 405 gr load in the SOCOM, it appears to have more snap to it than the 300 gr load.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 8:13:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By MartytW: Perhaps recoil impulse? mass * velocity. What was the load for the Beowulf? And the SOCOM. It may be that the Beowulf load you fired is more like the 405 gr load in the SOCOM, it appears to have more snap to it than the 300 gr load.
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334gr vs 300gr both had the same powder charge using the same powder, or that's what I understood from "LS" and "Angst". 34gr weight difference on the projectile would not account for the perceived recoil my shoulder felt..... Maybe I am just used to the SOCOM feel. [:D]
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 2:41:22 AM EDT
My factory loads were the 334gr. My reloads were 325gr Speer , with 37.2 gr. of Hodgdon Lil'Gun. I don't remember what powder LS was usinging, but the charge was on the 32gr. side.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 8:43:00 AM EDT
This is interesting. We fired the standard 300 gr round from the 499, the 325 gr Speer HP and the 385 gr Remington. The 300 gr was a pussy cat and the 385 gr was a pleasure to shoot but the 325 gr kicked like a mule. Accuracy wise, we got 1/2 MOA with the 300, 3/4 MOA with the 385 and 1 MOA with the 325. I think the difference in recoil impuse may be more to do with case design, a straight wall vs. a shouldered case
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