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Posted: 6/14/2003 7:16:52 PM EDT
I just received my very first AR-180B, even my firstArmalite, I'm ecstatic guys, its a beauty, my first semi (military style) for a Canadian that's pretty good. A bunch of the guys I hunt with in early November (Deer) say that the .223 doesn't have enough punch to stop a deer after it's been popped, I beg to differ with them. I think it will more than do the job within 200 yards, especially within the thick brush we hunt in Ontario, I know that the deer are a bit bigger up here, but a properly placed shot should do the job, do you agree or not?
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 7:21:49 PM EDT
I've heard stories of 55 gr FMJ stopping deer with one shot under 150 yds. I have no experience with this however.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 7:37:49 PM EDT
Since you're new here - I guess we can re-hash this again. A .223 will kill a deer. So will a .410 shotgun, a ball-peen hammer, or a .22 short. It's just a matter of hitting them in the right place. I hunted deer with my old stainless 'Mini' for a few years, and had some spectacular successes, and some failures too. If you hit a 250 lb Mule Deer buck in the heart/lung area with a .223 64 gr. powerpoint - you've just gotten yourself a few hours of searching for a wounded deer. If you hit one in the neck/head/spine - you'll get lightning fast kills. That being said - I don't do it anymore - a .30 caliber round gives you a lot more room for error.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 7:42:00 PM EDT
From personal anecdotes.... Yes, .223/5.56 will stop a deer and do it quite well. There are better tools for the job however...check your hunting laws as many states prohibit hunting under a certain caliber. Virginia's is .23 caliber... Ed
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 7:42:04 PM EDT
The key to killing deer(whitetail) with a .223 is proper shot placement. Always go for a central nervous system shot. I go for the neck and I use the Hornady 55 gr. V-Max and it has not failed to kill the deer yet. Remember the key is proper shot placement. Hope this helps and good luck on your first hunt with a .223.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 7:47:05 PM EDT
It's a varmint cartrige. Is a deer a varmint, Jethro?
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 7:56:02 PM EDT
Originally Posted By markm: It's a varmint cartrige. Is a deer a varmint, Jethro?
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While techinically correct it will kill things bigger than small game/varmints. There are many dead Vietnamese, Iraqis, Afghanis, Somalis, et al who can attest that it will kill larger game. [yoda]....There are BETTER choices for this task however, but work it will....[/yoda]
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 7:57:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By markm: It's a varmint cartrige. Is a deer a varmint, Jethro?
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Varmint: an animal considered a pest A deer a varmint, yep.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 7:59:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/14/2003 8:00:13 PM EDT by Ridge]
.223 is a fine horse killer [beathorse] Sorry couldn't resist.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 8:02:37 PM EDT
Yes a 223 will kill a dear, but how fast and will you find it? I can tell you first hand the lousiest feeling in the world is knowing you made a solid hit on a big game animal only to loose it. Even in the hands of a great shot it is not the best caliber/cartridge for the job, thats why its classified as a varmint cartridge, and its not even one of the better ones at that, that is why we have the 22-250 and the 220 swift. Beg borrow or steal a good .270, .308, or 30-06 class rifle, .243 minimum. You do have some big deer up there.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 8:07:54 PM EDT
Oh, jeez.......I just saw the Canada location. If you have deer upwards of 200lbs I would HIGHLY suggest a bigger caliber......
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 8:36:29 PM EDT
You have to be kidding me! Hunt deer with a 223 thats just stupid way to small of a bullet. Ive seen smaller whitetalls taking 12 gauge slugs and runing along ways, along ways. I hunt mulleys in colorado and I use an 7mm remington magnum. I wound never use anything smaller that an 243 for hunting deer. ============================================= Never underestmate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 9:00:04 PM EDT
Where I hunt, shots are rarely over 100 yards. Mostly between 40-100 yards. I hunted one year with my AR. Had no problem tagging a 7 point buck at 40 yards at a dead run. It didn't go but a few feet more. A friend of mine got his young son a .223 to hunt with, and he has dropped a few deer at ranges from 75-100 yards with no problems. Yes there are better calibers out there for the job. But at the same time, I'd hunt with .223 again with no problem. But I'd be pretty confident with my shot before pulling the trigger.
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 9:04:17 PM EDT
Restrict yourself to very clean, sure head and neck shots and you'll drop every one in its tracks. Try shooting them anywhere else and you'd better have excellent tracking skills unless you dump a whole mag into them in full auto. Get yourself a good fixed power scope in the 4X to 8X range, sight in, and get a lot of practice at the range at all ranges from 50 yards to 200, and make sure that the scope mounts rigidly and isn't susceptible to drift on the mounts. It wouldn't hurt you to do some anatomical dissection on a head and neck to learn for yourself where the brain and spine REALLY are, too. It really helps to know that when you're counting on a CNS kill. The ultimate shot is the brain stem. Hit anything there, and it's down without any delay whatsoever, and not so much as a twitch. CJ
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 9:53:18 PM EDT
crazycanuk, I would have to say no. This is based on two things. #1 the size of Canadian deer. #2 brush. The .223 is a flat shooter, but is not the best at punching through brush. I would not use less than .30 cal. Where I am in Texas, a .223 would work fine on smaller white tails. (with proper shot placement, but then agian if you miss vitals bad with a .300 win mag any deer is gonna run) Anyway, bolt action long guns are cheap enough that you can pick one up complete with scope for less than $400 US. Maybe not top of the line, but a real shooter non the less. Check out Howa and the Remington 710 or even a 700 ADL synthetic. Good luck and good hunting. [sniper2]
Link Posted: 6/14/2003 11:21:26 PM EDT
I don't think it's too humane a choice. If every time you had a clear shot it took down the central nervous system then I'd have a different opinion all together. While you can hunt with a .223 or even .22 LR (I had a prick of a co-worker who would poach with an AR-7) they are not the right tools at all. Be kind to your future trophy/dinner and be nice to yourself... use a round that will minimize the chance the deer will escape with a nasty hole in it.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 12:16:52 AM EDT
It's not a good deer caliber. In fact, in many states in the U.S., it's illegal to hunt deer with a .223.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 7:31:26 AM EDT
I have found a whole deer skeleton in the woods with the lower jaw shot away (no, it wasn't dragged away by another wild animal). No doubt the hunter had been going for a 'central nervous system shot'. The brain in the deer family makes an especially small target, and this is especially true in a moving animal. The spinal cord, the diameter of your pinky, makes an even less attractive target. You are far more likely to hit neck muscle and simply injure the animal. Again, the latter is especially true for a moving animal. I am not challenging anyones hunting prowess but I think the 'central nervous system' shot is unfair to the deer. I know you know this already, but the hunters job is to kill the animal as quickly and cleanly as possible. This is why a chest/heart shot is a much better target. The sheer size makes small errors forgivable. There is nothing magical about .30 cal. If you are concerned about brush you can use a partition bullet. If this is less a concern, then a ballistic tip or soft point. You must have adequate penetration/expansion/fragmentation to tear as much lung tissue/blood vessels as possible so the animal has no breath and no circulating blood. If it hits the heart that's great too. These are what make an animal collapse. Even with a properly expanding bullet, .223 is simply going to damage much less tissue than a larger diameter bullet. Less tissue damage = deer runs longer. On a 200 lb. animal, is that something you want to risk? I grew up in Ontario and so I'm familiar with the weather, general topography (variety) and flora/fauna. I can't imagine anything more frustrating than tracking a large deer with a .223 chest shot,in thick brush, with a light drizzle slowly washing away the blood trail.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 8:04:44 AM EDT
i used to live in upstate NY, about 40 mins from the quebec border, and yes, the deer (and moose) are bigger. i have only used a 30-30 and a 30-06 and i couldnt imagine using anything less. ive seen what happens to a deer with a poorly placed shot from one of the larger calibers and its not a pretty situation. long story short...why make it hard on yourself? or the deer?
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 10:46:09 AM EDT
Your having the problem of wanting to look cool hunting with a black gun. Use a proper caliber. I deer hunt with 30'06. GG
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 1:11:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/15/2003 1:12:15 PM EDT by fell-off-the-truck]
The only Deer Killers I know of are a bunch Of Dirty RedNecks !!!! [rail]
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 3:00:32 PM EDT
I hunt moose, so this probably doesn't apply, but I don't use anything I know has a chance of only wounding the animal, so I go with a .300 Remington Ultra Mag, I have never had anything scurry away, and it has nearly as flat a trajectory as a .223.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 4:16:20 PM EDT
Using a .223 in Michigan will get you funny looks. It legal but there are better rounds out there. I guess the deer are bigger in some parts of the country than others.
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 6:14:53 PM EDT
[b]The only Deer Killers I know of are a bunch Of Dirty RedNecks !!!! [/b] Or a bunch of PETA people allowing overpopulation until half the young die every winter of starvation.... Hmmmmm...
Link Posted: 6/15/2003 6:16:08 PM EDT
Get an AR-10 and you'll have the best of both worlds. Or better yet, get a Barrett M82A1. CJ
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 1:14:50 PM EDT
I have to argue on this one. I heard the same stuff the guys above are saying and decided to see for myself. I took my AR to Missouri last year for deer and I shot 2 bucks at around 100yds and hit vital heart shot and they ran less than 30 yards each. The biggest one ran 10yards and dropped DEAD and he field dressed at 207lbs. That is my experience so I think it is a great round. I agree that it is ALL shot placement. I have seen deer killed with a .22 long rifle. Hit it is a kill zone and you are good to go. Do not use FMJ or hollow point ammo, go for the soft nose ammo to penetrate the hide. just my 2 cents
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 2:51:39 PM EDT
I have a old uncle that has killed everything that has four legs and lives in the woods, he has hunted here in oregon with a 24" bolt action in .223. this is his favorite deer gun for around here, western oregon. he does use larger calibers and more power for eastern oregon where longer shots are the norm. he likes the 223 because it doesnt screw up as much meat on the animal, he has no problem dropping deer with this caliber. he laughs at the guys who use 300 win mags to blow a 12" hole into a 200 pound deer at 150 yards. i was with him last year when he took down a nice 6 point buck at 100 yards or so, deer went 20 feet and colapsed dead. nice heart lung shot. i thought about hunting with my new 20" bushmaster but im gonna use my rem PSS in .308. i have also seen a freind with a 30-06 gut shoot a deer and it ran for 500 yards before it finally fell over, we tracked that deer into the night, it sucked. shot placement is more important than caliber most of the time.
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