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Posted: 6/9/2003 1:58:46 PM EDT
It amazes me how dishonest some of the dealers on gunbroker are in selling their stripped lowers advertised as "Pre-Ban". For example, the two essential arms receivers with _sequential serial numbers_ on gunbroker right now with bids at around $300 each. It's SO OBVIOUS these were never assembled onto complete rifles (nevermind the controvery about selling stripped lowers in the first place).

Has anyone considered that the ATF, if they really wanted to, could be monitoring these auctions and recording the serial numbers of lowers being sold stripped (along with info on the buyers)? It seems to me that either bother the dealers and the buyers are completely ignorant of the AWB or are trying to cash in on misrepresentation. The excuse some of these so-called dealers give (before they threaten to come to my house and shoot me) is that since it was made before Sep 94, symantecally speaking it's "Pre-Ban" when we all know the term "Pre-Ban" refers to the grandfathered status of assault weapons manufactured prior to Sep 94.

Just pisses me off that nobody's set these morons straight.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 3:04:22 PM EDT
pisses you off that noones set them straight? i suppose the cops could go to his home and murder him, would that be better? suprises me how some gun owners push for more restrictive laws. EA folded before the ban. i could give a shit what they think about lowers, it's not even on the 4473 if it's complete or not. geez, i wish the rules were more strict too..maybe if i ask nicely they can come to my house and check all my weapons out for legality.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 3:08:10 PM EDT
How are you so certain that they were not assembled at one point?
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 3:12:29 PM EDT
Well apart from the owner telling me they weren't, it's obvious that they were bought in quantity to have sequential serial numbers. Very unlikely that he'd assemble them before 94, then hang onto both for 10 years, strip them down, and sell them. Hey I don't like gun control anymore than anyone else, but i'd rather see these dumbass dealers get busted for misleading people than see the people who bought them get busted for not knowing any better.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 5:16:20 PM EDT
I think the term is stressed on gunbroker.com. Caveat emptor. Buyer beware.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 6:01:12 PM EDT
At most gunshows you can buy LEO/Military marked mags from dumbass dealers but that doesnt mean I do (obviously because its illegal). Its the buyer who has to make sure he is doing something legal. The dealers are trying to make money, somehow I doubt that some of the more shady types would care if one of thier customers got busted. I do understand why your pissed off though. Hopefully people with good sense will ask in the forum or read the FAQ on this website BEFORE buying items of questionable legality.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 6:30:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 6:42:51 PM EDT
Just out of curiosity, who could say for certain one of these wasn't a complete and grandfathered rifle once the new owner gets it and puts it all together? I know the s/n could be traced, however, absent of that who could say for certain? When I'm at the range I certainly can't tell by looking what the status of a gun is. While I'm not advocating breaking the law, what difference does it make if a stupid and nonsensical law is ignored? Why should anyone who purports to believe in Article 2 and stand up for it get pissed off? I'm not going to go out of my way to obtain non-grandfathered stuff but I'm not going to worry too much about the stuff I do get either.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:36:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ldb: Just out of curiosity, who could say for certain one of these wasn't a complete and grandfathered rifle once the new owner gets it and puts it all together? I know the s/n could be traced, however, absent of that who could say for certain? When I'm at the range I certainly can't tell by looking what the status of a gun is. While I'm not advocating breaking the law, what difference does it make if a stupid and nonsensical law is ignored? Why should anyone who purports to believe in Article 2 and stand up for it get pissed off? I'm not going to go out of my way to obtain non-grandfathered stuff but I'm not going to worry too much about the stuff I do get either.
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Rarely are the post/pre ban violations prosecuted in their own right. They are usually a tack-on charge to strengthen an NFA violations case. As crooked as the BATFE is, having pre/post ban feature conflicts is the *least* of your worries. If they really have a hard on for you, expect to find some much more serious evidence planted after one of their famous raids. With all of the cooperation BATFE is having with DEA, they'll "find" stuff much more serious than just firearms violations. I'm not saying to disregard the law, but the above is the honest to god truth.
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 9:46:45 PM EDT
maybe its just their form of civil disobedience?
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 10:34:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/9/2003 10:37:39 PM EDT by SinistralRifleman]
Link Posted: 6/9/2003 11:07:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By jzdziarski: It's SO OBVIOUS these were never assembled onto complete rifles (nevermind the controvery about selling stripped lowers in the first place).
View Quote
Not to stick up for them, but that BATF said that there ahd to be a complete gun, not assembled to meet the regs. If someone had all the parts in kit form, then it meets the regulations. Did this guy do that? I have no idea, but just wanted to make sure everyone realizes have an assembled PREBAN gun is not 100% correct...
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 8:10:31 AM EDT
While I could be mistaken, I think the guy did allude to one or both of the lowers being taken off complete guns. I for one did bid on one because I wanted one regardless of the pre/post status. I quit bidding though, because I'm not willing to pay nearly $400 for a lower that hopefully will be worth about $100 in a little over a year. I'll just wait until then to find one.
Link Posted: 6/11/2003 2:48:09 PM EDT
I would guess some dont even know their own product. i traded a m4 6920 upper 4 a 6921 upper to a guy at the gun show with alot of ar stuff (alot of uppers). I see him there all the time and when i started talking numbers and models he looked at me like i was crazy. I just started talking in lengo like i did when i first started yo get into ars. 0
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