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Posted: 6/3/2003 10:30:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/3/2003 10:30:58 PM EDT by 19119640]
1500 just for a lower?!? Give me a break. I would rather build 3 complete postbans and shoot them. This insanity has got to stop.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:37:25 AM EDT
I would have to agree with you. I have had several prebans. It really is a sellers market though. Depending on what happens with the AWB, the prices can continue to skyrocket or they can drop like a rock. We all need to do our part, IE vote and let our voices be heard in regards to the sunsetting of the AWB. Unfortunately no one really knows what the President plans to do....... [Marines] MAX
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 5:04:57 AM EDT
I don't like to gamble and I don't want to pay those prices. My voice has been heard in the right places.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 5:33:11 AM EDT
I saw a Colt lower for sale on GunBroker yesterday with a Buy It Now price of $2100...and it was USED! Insane...
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 5:47:12 AM EDT
For the price of some of these pre-bans, I'd rather pay a few dollars more and get an RDIAS. IMHO, if you buy into the whole pre-ban market, you are giving in to the anti-gunners' who have pushed this bullshit on the basis of looks alone. 55gr. FMJ is 55gr. FMJ. Who gives a crap what it looks like. Sure, I'd like to be able to attach whatever I wanted to, but the better use of my money is to buy a current post-ban and donate the difference to RKBA lobby groups and political campaigns. Think of what all could be accomplished with the money if everyone were to just quit paying all this price (ie. buying into the whole strategy that the anti's wanted - just like the MG market post 86). What if everyone put all the extra money into fighting the campaign in the polls? We'd have everything we wanted on our guns again. That's what.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 6:12:46 AM EDT
lol..this is exactly what i was saying, other than a suppressor on a threaded preban barrel.(which i dont have or intend to) it is jus ridiculous at the prices..they dont shoot any better..and the reason the prices are so high..cause ppl are willing to pay it..if everyone said NO we arent paying these high prices than the company or individual loses out, or they have to ask a reasonable price..i say boycott PREBAN HIGH PRICES..
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 6:32:48 AM EDT
I can find no justification for paying that much for a used rifle. That is what most of these prebans with outrageous prices are. I will wait and if not do without. I personally can't find any features that are useful compared to my current postbans. Also sold all my preban$$$ in 98-2000 and replaced with postbans. Best descisions gun selling wise I ever made.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 6:45:02 AM EDT
I was lucky enought to buy a colt a2 hbar preban (literally) for 672 bucks and I kept it. I wouldn't buy a pre-ban now that they really are pre-ban. There are too many great post bans out there. What's driving the prices up are those guys who just have to have the features (dubious though they are) and who are willing to starve their families to get them. OK OK or they have lots of cash. It's like 25 or 50 round 10/22 mags going for 100 bucks or more.......reeeedickulus!!!!!
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 6:48:13 AM EDT
I can kill you with my bolt-action Mauser just as easily as you can kill me with your collapsable stock. [:D]
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 6:56:12 AM EDT
For me personally, it was the desire to taste the forbidden fruit. I then realized the fruit didn't taste as good as I thought it would. I got into the game late, and was willing to pay the high price of a pre-ban. I then found a NIB 6601 for $900, so I sold my more expensive pre-ban's and kept the 6601. Guns purchases sometimes override logical thought.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:04:08 AM EDT
I prefer the collapsable stock. My wife does as well. It's ridiculous that I can't put one on a NEW rifle without breaking the law. And yes, I know about the little shorty stocks... I want one that I can adjust. Hence, I own a preban AR. On the flip side, I own a postban M1A, as the only difference is a bayonet lug which I give less than a damn about. :) Alex
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:12:30 AM EDT
What's with these insane prices for a RDIAS? It's jsut a chunk of metal.... Like it or lump it folks, that's the way tihngs work. When an item is high in demand, it goes up in price. I paid $900 for mine, and i thought that was reasonable at the time. It's an investment. Sellers can only charge what people will pay.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 8:12:29 AM EDT
I saw a slab-side AR15A1 Preban at the W. Springfield MA gun show last weekend for $1500. I also saw other pre-bans AR15s (complete rifles) for $1100. One vendor had new pre-ban Colt uppers for $800. So, it is not all grim if you look in the right places. I bought my pre-ban CAR15 for ~$1150 in 1999 and I love that gun. It's a flat-top and comes with the Aimpoint Comp scope on it. I like the adjustable stock. It's a DPMS, not a Colt, but I wouldn't pay the premium for a horse!
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 8:26:22 AM EDT
Didn't you guys ever collect anything as a kid? Bushmaster's postban prices went up $200 in the last 3 years. I wouldn't pay more than $1,700 for a preban, that's my limit. Most people who collect colt's because they love colt's not because they want to make a killing. Every day there are less of them. I have a preban lower that became useless last month(more than 36,000 rds through it), that's one more gone.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 9:09:15 AM EDT
Originally Posted By shotar: ... I personally can't find any features that are useful compared to my current postbans. ...
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Pretty much agree [b]except[/b] for the flash suppressor. I’ve got some XM193 that generates an absolute fireball out of a 16-inch post-ban barrel. I won’t pay an extra $800 or so for a pre-ban. But when (hopefully) the AWB expires, I’m definitely putting a flash suppressor on that barrel!!
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 9:52:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/4/2003 9:52:30 AM EDT by 00_buckshot]
I'm pretty much in the same boat as most of you guys. I have a postban and have been craving a preban but not at the prices some of these guys want for them. I mean come on, $2,800 for a Colt M4gery that doesn't even have mil-spec fire control parts and has the shitty ass large pivot pin that looks like somebody lost the push pin and fixed it with a screw from their toolbox. I saw one I liked for around $1,300 and was seriously thinking about it but decided to buy a AK and a new 10/22 with a shitload of ammo for both and still haven't broke the $1,000 barrier. I say if the ban sets, which I hope it does, I will put the preban features on my current postban and call it good and if it is resigned then I'll just live without. BTW, I have sent several letters to several high end people telling them I support those who support the sunset.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 10:39:24 AM EDT
I think all of you who are complaining should just spend your time making more money and stop bitching. The man hours of bitching on price on this site alone could have bought a hundred prebans if put to good use.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 10:55:18 AM EDT
Yea, what he said.[lolabove]
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 10:59:33 AM EDT
Not only the price of pre ban lowers have gone up. The pre ban Beta Mags have also gone up quite a bit in value since Reuben M. sold them here a couple years ago.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 11:17:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mikepenn33: I have a preban lower that became useless last month(more than 36,000 rds through it), that's one more gone.
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Or you could just send that preban back to the factory for a rebuild or reissue and still have that lower in good working order. Call the manufacturer and find out. I know bushmaster does this.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 11:34:37 AM EDT
it's already been looked at,i was told it can't. I think I'm to turn it into a lamp
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 12:56:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lazyshooter: Not only the price of pre ban lowers have gone up. The pre ban Beta Mags have also gone up quite a bit in value since Reuben M. sold them here a couple years ago.
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Yep - I got one of the last Ruben had at $425 shipped with all the extras and see them adv now for $600-$700. I checked Ruben's site a couple of weeks ago and found he sells Beta C's to LEO's at about $225. That's likely to be close to our price when/if the AWB sunsets.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:18:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mikepenn33: it's already been looked at,i was told it can't. I think I'm to turn it into a lamp
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What manufacture. In general what they normally do is destroy that receiver and issue a new one with the same serial number, thus it is a repair, and not a " New " receiver.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:24:35 PM EDT
Colt
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:31:36 PM EDT
I bought a new Colt Sporter in Hawaii backin 93 for <900. Came home a few months later and sold it to my brother-in-law for what it cost. Yesterday I got it back for the same price, still new, complete and unfired. God am I excited.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:40:06 PM EDT
It's interesting that the closer we get to "sunset" time the more pre-bans are being offered up for sale. You'd almost think folks are trying to dump them while they're still worth something?? :-)
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:46:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By RUT: It's interesting that the closer we get to "sunset" time the more pre-bans are being offered up for sale. You'd almost think folks are trying to dump them while they're still worth something?? :-)
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I don't think there's more. i just we're paying more attention to them. or it could be me
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 1:54:18 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mikepenn33: Didn't you guys ever collect anything as a kid? Bushmaster's postban prices went up $200 in the last 3 years. I wouldn't pay more than $1,700 for a preban, that's my limit. Most people who collect colt's because they love colt's not because they want to make a killing. Every day there are less of them. I have a preban lower that became useless last month(more than 36,000 rds through it), that's one more gone.
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Was it a green label or blue label Colt?
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 2:50:46 PM EDT
Prices are only what we are willing to pay
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 4:56:34 PM EDT
I buy Preban Colts because I can... [banana] Dirk
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 5:02:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dirk_Pitt: I buy Preban Colts because I can... [banana] Dirk
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What he said. [:D]
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 6:00:23 PM EDT
I have 2 pre ban Colts. One is an AR-15 A2 Gov't Carbine and the other is a plain old SP-1. I paid 1500.00 for the SP-1 in '99 and 1100.00 for the A@ Carbine.I see them both converted to M4geries and selling for 2800.00 to 3200.00! SP-1's are still around 1500.00. That seems to be the way I am leaning. I can buy 2 more and make them into full size A2's or carbines and not worry about the ban.So if you are really insisting on a pre ban then pay what they ask,if not then buy a post ban.[beathorse]
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 6:38:46 PM EDT
I bought both my pre-Bs before they were pre-Bs. The Colt was a little over $600. The Eagle lower was around $125. Eagle/Armalite has told me they will manufacture a new lower if/when mine becomes unserviceable with a new pre-B for around $350. That was some time ago though.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 7:34:19 PM EDT
Would I spend silly money on a preban? Yup, absolutely. Lets be realistic here, the 94AWB will be extended and made permanent before it expires. I don't like it, but thats what will happen. And when it does, the price of prebans will rise...and worse than they are now. I don't blame anyone for not wanting to spend the money for a preban, but thats where the smart money is. Look at prices for class 3 stuff. Thats the same path prebans will take when the ban is made permanent. The rate of appreciation will not be as fast as with NFA weapons due to the greater numbers of semiauto prebans in private hands, but it will happen. Mark my words. Buy two postbans for the same price as a preban now. In a few more years those two postbans will still be worth about the same. Buy a preban instead and in a few years it'll be worth much more than two postbans.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 8:19:29 PM EDT
Mmmm, I can understand all pre-ban holders wanting the AWB to continue, or at least everyone to think the AWB to continue, but it wont. Faith in God, inside information, whatever you want to call it, but there isnt the liberal wave there was in 92-94. It wont happen. And I'll put money on that. I refuse to be pessimistic about this country, after all, I have to fight for it for the next six years, not just sit around and bitch about whats wrong with it. Thats exactly why a lot of pre-ban "investors" are dumping now though. I dont buy guns, or at least I dont intentionaly buy guns to make a profit. I know I've lost probably $1,000 over the years trading down simply cause I wanted something more than what I had, reguardles of what I could get for it. IMHO people who bitch about the bans are just as unwilling to stand up and fight as the rest of the herd. Although I wont go so far as to openly suggest such a terrible illegal act here, I'd suggest acting like you live in a free country and fighting when they try and force something other upon you, and being happy and not sounding like an old lady until then. IMHO.
Link Posted: 6/4/2003 8:24:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By shotar:
Originally Posted By mikepenn33: I have a preban lower that became useless last month(more than 36,000 rds through it), that's one more gone.
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Or you could just send that preban back to the factory for a rebuild or reissue and still have that lower in good working order. Call the manufacturer and find out. I know bushmaster does this.
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I doubt that Beta will ever sell direct to the civilian market after the ban. She is politically correct.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 5:25:48 AM EDT
I really don't think of it as anything but examining reality. Pre-ban prices will continue to rise. Wish I could buy a whole truckload at today's prices. I could turn them around in 95 and probably get 150% of my money back. Lets face it, we never get anything back. They just continue to take.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 6:15:41 AM EDT
It is pretty obvious that those betting on preban prices increasing aren't reading the news (or they are reading it and want to drum up pessimism so they can dump their pre-bans before they become 10yr old used rifles) Tom Delay - the guy who schedules floor votes - says that no aw ban is going to the House floor for a vote. Nancy Pelosi - House Minority Leader. Delay's sworn opponent says that she isn't going to force a floor vote with a discharge petition (the only option the Dems have left) and that even if it did come to a floor vote, it will be a free vote (Dem crossovers won't face any penalties for killing the ban).
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 6:43:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 6:44:34 AM EDT by shaggy]
First off, I don't own any prebans so it doesn't affect me. Now, we're more than a year away from expiration...and the 2004 elections. The dems are backing off the issue for now because they don't want to shoot their load too early. Next summer it will heat up like you can't imagine. This is going to be one of their big issues for the 04 elections and the republicans are going to be hard pressed to avoid it regardless of what Tom Delay says now. The DNC knows this [i]can[/i] be a winning issue for them - it plays very well to the soccer moms in the suburbia and to large population centers where there are fewer gun owners. The DNC has always had a problem of the blue dogs, but with both houses at stake as well as the presidency (not to mention several potential Supreme Court appointments), they will whip the blue dogs into line for the sake of the party at the national level.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 7:11:33 AM EDT
Shaggy, This is not as easy issue as you think for the Democrats. When the AWB was passed it had no precedent (i.e. there was no history to prove it would be successful or ineffective). Now that the sunset approaches the Democrats have to weigh the costs of pushing something similar against the threat of the Republicans blasting them with the 10 years of proof that the AWB did nothing to reduce crime. Time will tell...it will be interesting for sure.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 7:17:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/5/2003 7:23:50 AM EDT by shaggy]
Snice - The issue has nothing to do with how effective the law was or how ineffective it was. Its all about fear-mongering to the masses to win elections. The dems have proven time after time that facts don't mean diddly. Its about what you can make the people believe to bring them to your side. And generally, while we do own the issue on the facts, people (non-gun owners) don't want to take the time to educate themselves about the differences between a preban and a post ban. Because it doesn't affect them, most people will not take the time to delve into the intracacies of the law and whether it was effective or not. Soccer moms don't care if a gun with a bayo lug is no more dangerous than one without it. They don't care what the FBI statistics say. All they see is the news when some crazy MF'er shoots up a school and they think of their kids. Its not about facts, its about sound bites.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 8:52:20 AM EDT
I own prebans myself and I'll be happy to see them drop in value. I'll just be able to buy more - SR-25K maybe?
The DNC knows this can be a winning issue for them - it plays very well to the soccer moms in the suburbia and to large population centers where there are fewer gun owners.
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Except that soccer moms were major supporters of arming airline pilots after 9/11. Also, if you check out recent polls, they discuss some of the demographic change in that category. Prior to 9/11, 69% of surbuban females supported further curbs on gun restrictions. After 9/11, the numbers have dropped to 55% and there may be room to drop more. So the Dems would be burning a segment of the population that they need to win the election - and they would be doing it to court a group that wasn't enough to save them from gunowner wrath in the past and is getting smaller every day. The Dems could barely pull off the first ban when conditions were 10x more favorable (owned House, Senate and Executive, major crime issues, pro-Second groups weak). They stand slim chance in the House and that is where this is going to get decided. All the pro-Second crowd has to do is keep the pressure on and we will win this - no question about it. The only way we can lose is if we sit on our ass and do nothing.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 10:26:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 19119640: 1500 just for a lower?!? Give me a break. I would rather build 3 complete postbans and shoot them. This insanity has got to stop. [):)]
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It will stop on Sept. 13, 2004 when the AWB sunsets. Actually it will probably end sooner than that when people realize it is going to sunset.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 11:07:08 AM EDT
In (P. R. of) Massachusetts there are bills proposed which are similar to the California AWB and are designed to replace and/or enhance the federal ban. Existing pre 94 rifles may be grandfathered so this may be your only chance to buy a preban before these laws are passed. (Note that some form of these laws will be passed - just look at what was passed in 1998 and the AGs de-facto ban on certain handguns) See www.goal.org for details.
Link Posted: 6/5/2003 3:47:46 PM EDT
I'm so confident about this I'm willing to lay down a wager. I'd be willing to bet one of my "evil rifles" on the table, that this ban dies and we get our folders, our bayo lugs, our flash hiders back. I lose and either this or something worse gets passed perminantly, someone gets it, free of charge. I'll even pay shipping. I win, and whoever takes me up on this owes me one of THEIR nifty toys. Heck, you can have my favourite child, my AK-74 with FSE fixed Krink style stock, cheek pad, correct muzzle break PINNED on to a threaded muzzle, about two dozen bakelite mags, a PSO-2 scope, and Bulgie bayonet (I decided to fight the ban in my own little way). So put your money, or rathar your guns, where your mouths are. There will be no new AWB.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 10:25:57 PM EDT
How many gun control laws aince 1934 have been repealed?? Trust me the BAN WILL GET EXTENDED IF NOT MADE WORSE!! If you think differently then change medication.
Link Posted: 6/6/2003 10:48:27 PM EDT
Hey, if the ban expires, we can put whatever the hell we want on our post-bans right??? i.e. collapsible stocks, treaded barrels with bayonet lugs etc...if so, SWEETTTTTTT And if god forbid the ban was revived someday down the road, would we have to take it all back off? Anyway, i don't think they'll let it expire next year, since it will be around election time, and the general public shakes at the word "assult rifle", bayonet lug, threaded barrels, pistol grips, high-cap mags, and those deadly collapible stocks.....but i'll continue to dream
Link Posted: 6/7/2003 12:22:14 AM EDT
The price is only that high becuase people will pay that much. They would not sell them for that much if people did not buy them.
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