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Posted: 6/2/2003 12:44:11 PM EDT
I'm confused now, I have a 14.5 with A2 flash up until now I always thought it was legal and i've been told it's legal. After I posted a picture some Ar15 members told me it wasn't legal and that I needed a phantom flash to make it legal length. I aways believe in better safe than sorry so I called the ATF and guess what? They couldn't answer my question. I never saw a NFA warning when i saw these for sale, now I notice the warning in magazines. When did they decide it was a NFA item? I ordered a phantom to install just to cover my ass. I never installed a flash suppressor,is it simple? And can some one clear up this matter for me, thanks
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 12:53:01 PM EDT
It'll need to be permanently installed, too. Tac weld that puppy on there. Alex
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 12:54:34 PM EDT
This gets better and better
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 12:54:42 PM EDT
Mike, First thing we have to clear up is what length is your barrel? (w/o the flash hider attached) Close the bolt and drop a cleaning rod down the barrel and mark it. Pull the rod and measure from its end to the mark. If the barrel is under 16" long (without the PERMANENTLY installed flashhider then its a NFA item). Has been since 1934. Real M4 barrels are 14.5" long and require a PERMANENTLY mounted muzzle device that will extend that to 16"+. A 14.5" barrel with an A2 flash supressor is only 15.5" (half an inch short - still an NFA item). There are companies that sell 16 "M4 barrels" those are barrels that have the M4 profile but are extended the extra 1.5" so they are not NFA items. These don't required the Phantom to be legal. With an A2 flash supressor installed they are 17" long. To tell the truth if the barrel is 14.5" long then you'll want an expert to install that Phantom (it shouldn't cost much). As you will need to drill into the barrel, install a blind pin, then weld over the pin (and preferably refinish the part).
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 12:56:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2003 12:57:25 PM EDT by Bartholomew_Roberts]
Your total barrel length must be over 16" in order not to fall under NFA regulation. A 14.5" barrel and A2 flashhider will not get you there. A Phantom, Vortex, Y-Comp or KKF A3-look alike will get you there; but the muzzle device must be permanently installed (you can't just thread it on the end of the barrel). As for ATF not knowing firearm regulations, nothing new there.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 12:56:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2003 12:57:23 PM EDT by MAHABALI]
Not only does it need to be perminantly mounted, it needs to be at least 1.5" long to make the legal 16" An A2 isnt, so it is illegal, but a phantom would be, It is a better FS both astheticly and functionally anyway. Are you sure you dont have a 16" barrel? Edited to say OOPS... you guys beat me to it.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 12:57:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/2/2003 12:58:30 PM EDT by mikepenn33]
It's a real colt m4a1 14.5 upper, thanks for the info
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 1:14:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 1:42:05 PM EDT
FYI, I have had two 14.5" barrels with Phantoms get the pin & weld from Mike at Ohio Rapid Fire( [url=ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=25&t=139752]me223[/url] on the EE!)
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 2:11:30 PM EDT
Talk to KurtKusstum in the industry forum, he just finished puting a longer flashhider on my 14.5 m4 to make it legal lenghth. All I can say is alsome job. You cant go wrong with Kurt.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 2:12:01 PM EDT
Aren't the Phantom & Vortex thingies classified as flash suppressors? If so He can't put them on a postban rifle; correct?
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 2:26:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AKsRule: Aren't the Phantom & Vortex thingies classified as flash suppressors? If so He can't put them on a postban rifle; correct?
View Quote
it's a preban
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 3:03:49 PM EDT
Mike, I posted about your barrel yesterday, another option, that is, if you ever want a supressor for your rifle, is to send it to gemtech and havce them install their quick detach supressor permanently, it solves the length issue, and allows for the use of a can later. On the other hand, if you have no plans for the can, the permanently installed phantom does the trick. i was not knocking your gear, just wanted to keep you out of trouble.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 3:14:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 552bigdog: Talk to KurtKusstum in the industry forum, he just finished puting a longer flashhider on my 14.5 m4 to make it legal lenghth. All I can say is alsome job. You cant go wrong with Kurt.
View Quote
I did the same thing as 552...I had Kurt install his A3 Milspec FS to bring my 14.5" M4 barrel out to the legal 16 inches.
Link Posted: 6/2/2003 4:28:09 PM EDT
I'm sending it to MSTN to have a phantom installed, i have to give the business they're been great to me
Link Posted: 6/3/2003 5:34:10 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/3/2003 8:58:43 AM EDT
ATF put me on hold forever and then couldn't give me an answer. They said to call back.????? MSTN can install one and get it back to me before ATF can give me an answer. better safe than sorry.
Link Posted: 6/3/2003 9:15:01 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mikepenn33: ATF put me on hold forever and then couldn't give me an answer. They said to call back.?????
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That's because they wanted time to get their black helicopters into place. ;-)
Link Posted: 6/3/2003 9:34:20 AM EDT
Originally Posted By mikepenn33: ATF put me on hold forever and then couldn't give me an answer.
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Phone trace....NEVER let ATF put you on hold. Just f**kin' wichu [;)]
Link Posted: 6/3/2003 10:19:53 AM EDT
Buy the phantom from Bushmaster and they'll install it for freeeeeeeee... (sorry, too many mattress commercials) You just pay for shipping, both ways.
Link Posted: 6/3/2003 10:33:27 AM EDT
Originally Posted By M4-guy: Buy the phantom from Bushmaster and they'll install it for freeeeeeeee... (sorry, too many mattress commercials) You just pay for shipping, both ways.
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It's already on it's way to MSTN,If I get good treatment from a dealer(product,price, fast shipping) I'll stay loyal to them even if it cost alittle more. Every question i asked Paul or Wes no matter how stupid it was they gave me an answer. They ship items faster then anyone I've ever delt with.
Link Posted: 6/3/2003 2:39:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Lumpy196:
Originally Posted By mikepenn33: ATF put me on hold forever and then couldn't give me an answer.
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Phone trace....NEVER let ATF put you on hold. Just f**kin' wichu [;)]
View Quote
Ha! In these days of caller ID, they don't need to put you on hold. Hope you called from work...
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