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Posted: 5/27/2003 3:53:50 PM EDT
Just wondering what some of you have said to the Law when you go looking for a SBR or Class III sign off. What questions have you been asked? What are good awnsers? I mean I'd sign off if I had the power but I'm sure most Sherrif's or Chief's want to know why you want or need this. I live in Florida so I know it can be done but I've never tried. Thanks for your help.

Glockdog

Airborne!
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 4:05:14 PM EDT
Even though it's none of their f@#*ing business, you won't get far telling them that. I always say that I'm getting them for lawful purposes such as occaisional plinking, and to enhance my collection.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 4:12:03 PM EDT
the best one i have seen is ".....for investment purposes."
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 4:50:40 PM EDT
OOOOOhh..I LIKE that one! I gotta remember it for next time.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 5:18:11 PM EDT
to collect some old debts...... Seriously, I would agree with Greco. For any lawful purpose. I was lucky in the fact that our newly elected sheriff is pro gun and he signed mine without question. Our past sheriff would not sign anything regarding firearms (except for CCW's). Be prepared for a long wait. I sent mine to the ATF two weeks ago. I was told by a local agent that with the ATF being changed to homeland security that it could take 12 to 15 weeks...... If it comes quicker I'll correct my post.... good luck and post pictures when you are done.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 6:04:32 PM EDT
The only questions I usually get at the sheriff's office are "What are you getting this time?" and "You are registered to vote, aren't you?" (with a not-so-subtle hidden agenda) Just be creative - to enhance your personal collection, as an investment, whatever. Now, if you're talking about what to put on the forms, it really doesn't matter as long as (a) its not patently illegal or hints at illegal/irresponsible use, and (b) will convince your CLEO. You can get cute, but not too cute. I like to put "for the pursuit of happiness". This summer I'm going to be doing a Krink SBR and I'll use "excitement!". I'd avoid something like "because the voices in my head told me to", however.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 6:10:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/27/2003 6:10:36 PM EDT by die-tryin]
I'd avoid something like "because the voices in my head told me to", however
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RFLMAO........
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 6:11:29 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GIDDS-45:Be prepared for a long wait. I sent mine to the ATF two weeks ago. I was told by a local agent that with the ATF being changed to homeland security that it could take 12 to 15 weeks......
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90-120 days is the average, and has been for years. Occasionally, you get lucky and have it go through faster (I had one back in 59 days) and sometimes it takes longer (had another go 270 days). Just send ithem in and try to forget about it or 3-4 months.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 6:18:33 PM EDT
Originally Posted By greco: Even though it's none of their f@#*ing business, you won't get far telling them that. I always say that I'm getting them for lawful purposes such as occaisional plinking, and to enhance my collection.
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If it wasn't their business, their signature wouldn't be required.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 6:31:46 PM EDT
My dealer put "For personal collection and investment" D.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 9:41:16 AM EDT
It is not up to them to decide whether you "need" it or not..that's YOUR choice. Whether they sign or not is THEIR choice. It just grinds me to have some freeking do-gooder, socialist commie prick decide for me what I can and can't have, or what I do and don't need. I've been in too many countries where this has been the case and I really get steamed just thinking about those democrat bastards. I've never seen anything in any local or state law that give that authority to decide what firearm you need to any LEO. It is a requirement that BATF came up with so that your locals are aware of some of the NFA stuff that is in their neck of the woods. As usual, some ass-wipes take it to mean it is their decision. I play the game just like everyone else does. Remember a while back when some CLEO wouldn't sign CCW's? That prompted some pi$$ed off citizens to get the "shall issue" wording put into state constitutions, and some states to enact new CCW laws. They could do this in NY and KALif if voters banded together, but I wouldn't hole my breath. Sorry for the rant.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 9:58:51 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Sukebe:
Originally Posted By greco: Even though it's none of their f@#*ing business, you won't get far telling them that. I always say that I'm getting them for lawful purposes such as occaisional plinking, and to enhance my collection.
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If it wasn't their business, their signature wouldn't be required.
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Actually, you're wrong, big guy. A Form 4 is a tax document, which means that tax privacy rules apply. The only thing their signature means is that they are unaware of any plans you might have to do something illegal with the device in question. The CLEO signoff is not in the law, it's an administrative PITA designed by ATF to throw one more barrier in front of the prospective C3 owner. I can move to another town and never tell the CLEO anything about my C3 collection. Why? It's NONE OF HIS BUSINESS! Here's another infobit you probably won't like. You, as a non-ATF cop, have no legal right to inspect my registration paperwork.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 10:23:50 AM EDT
like. You, as a non-ATF cop, have no legal right to inspect my registration paperwork.
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Not meant as a hijack or a flame but wouldn't a police officer be able (able in maybe not 100% legally but physically) to 'confiscate' your firearm to inspect it to see if it was legal, if you refused to show the paperwork? wasn't there an instance of that posted yesterday?
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 10:25:14 AM EDT
Hey quietshooter, that's pretty good info you have. Another point is that I saw some research some constitutional experts did regarding BATF's role. They said that when it comes to firearms, BATF jurisdiction is solely for taxation purposes, they DO NOT have ANY ENFORCEMENT jurisdiction. Of course we see them in ninja wear with HK MP5's storming everyone that they think has a sawed off shotgun (Like Ruby Ridge and WACO). The problem is that no one will band together and take them to task. The same way the Klintons stayed in office, when they should have been swinging from lamp posts.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 10:42:50 AM EDT
Originally Posted By dcoke76:
like. You, as a non-ATF cop, have no legal right to inspect my registration paperwork.
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Not meant as a hijack or a flame but wouldn't a police officer be able (able in maybe not 100% legally but physically) to 'confiscate' your firearm to inspect it to see if it was legal, if you refused to show the paperwork? wasn't there an instance of that posted yesterday?
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You're physically ABLE to screw another man...but that doesn't mean he's gonna LET you do it![;D] In that situation (I'm gonna turn the LEO attitude thing back on them) it would depend on the cop's attitude. If he was a dick about it, there are a number of little ace-in-the-hole things I can do (not sharing, sorry, but at least two of them work like hell) to maintain my legal position. If he was cool about it, I'll show him the COPY of the paperwork...not the original paperwork or the device itself. That way, I haven't surrendered anything I'm not prepared to lose.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 11:26:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By QuietShootr:
Originally Posted By Sukebe:
Originally Posted By greco: Even though it's none of their f@#*ing business, you won't get far telling them that. I always say that I'm getting them for lawful purposes such as occaisional plinking, and to enhance my collection.
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If it wasn't their business, their signature wouldn't be required.
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Actually, you're wrong, big guy. A Form 4 is a tax document, which means that tax privacy rules apply. The only thing their signature means is that they are unaware of any plans you might have to do something illegal with the device in question. The CLEO signoff is not in the law, it's an administrative PITA designed by ATF to throw one more barrier in front of the prospective C3 owner. I can move to another town and never tell the CLEO anything about my C3 collection. Why? It's NONE OF HIS BUSINESS! Here's another infobit you probably won't like. You, as a non-ATF cop, have no legal right to inspect my registration paperwork.
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Next time you buy a C3 do it without the CLEO signature.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 11:34:47 AM EDT
It can be done. Acceptable signoffs include Sheriff, judge, DA, a local FBI agent, and many more. If none of those will sign, you simply submit an affidavit that you've tried all of the above and can't get a signature. It'll go through anyway.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 11:52:14 AM EDT
I couldn't tell him anything. I couldn't get a word in edgewise with him telling me how cool it was and how much fun I was going to have with it. After signing, he showed me a few handguns of his personal collection he had in his desk. I had no idea this was going to happen and was semi-worried about what I would say.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 1:10:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By die-tryin: the best one i have seen is ".....for investment purposes."
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Hey, that IS the one I used.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:01:57 PM EDT
Originally Posted By QuietShootr: It can be done. Acceptable signoffs include Sheriff, judge, DA, a local FBI agent, and many more. If none of those will sign, you simply submit an affidavit that you've tried all of the above and can't get a signature. It'll go through anyway.
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Then why lower yourself and grovel in front of a badge? Don't bother with it. When they ask why you want it, tell them how you really feel. Tell them that it's none of their business why you want it or what you're going to do with it and you could care less if they sign or not. Then write your affidavit and be done with it. You'll feel better about yourself. You'll have thumbed your nose at "The Man". You'll be proud.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 2:10:28 PM EDT
You so miss the point. If they sign off with no trouble or questions, which in my town they do, why start shit? If they want to be dickheads, I have a supply of that to dole out...but if they want to be civil, I can return the favor. See how that works?
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 3:22:14 PM EDT
Also remember you can incorporate and bypass the CLEO signature and FBI background check if you have dicks for CLEOs. Then at a better time signe them over to yourself when you have better CLEOs in your area.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 3:47:25 PM EDT
Sukebe, I have never had to grovel or do anything in front of a badge here in my neck of the woods. The CLEO, the BATF and everyone I have had to deal with has been very professional, and nice folks to boot. That's why I go along and get along. No one has asked me to denigrate my self. No need to start shit when it ain't necessary.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 5:20:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By QuietShootr:You, as a non-ATF cop, have no legal right to inspect my registration paperwork.
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Maybe not, but a local law enforcement officer would not have to let you walk away either. First, most states have laws regarding full auto weapons even if it is legal to posess in such a state. Possession of a machinegun is also illegal under federal law, unless its properly registered under the NFA. And even though its a federal law, without knowledge of the paperwork and legal status, a local law enforcement officer would have probable cause to believe your possession was a felony. The issue is similar to any violation of federal criminal law witnessed by local law enforcement. Counterfeiting is a felony under federal law. If Chief Wiggum lawfully pulls you over at a local sobriety checkpoint and sees counterfeiting equipment and counterfeit currency in plain view in the back of your vehicle, he does not have to simply let you go because its a federal law and not within his jurisdiction. He can take you into custody until such time as the proper federal authorities arrive to collect you and charge you. So, no you don't HAVE to show him your paperwork, but he CAN make your life difficult if you don't.
Link Posted: 5/29/2003 6:27:27 PM EDT
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