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Posted: 5/25/2003 7:40:49 PM EDT
I have a post running on the Ammunition forum as well.

With SA ammo becoming difficult to impossible to find, can any one please recommend a good quality 55gr ammo for my 16" 1x9 chrome lined HBAR?

Looking to the long term, I want something reliable and readily available, not necessarily cheap but not match quality either.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 7:58:08 PM EDT
bwilliams- Ammoman.com has new Lake City .556 for $199 per 1000 with free shipping. It isn't cheap, but it is plenty hot and very reliable. You might also check out a gun show or two. I bought a couple thousand reloads made by an outfit in Texas (don't remember the name) for $129/thousand at our last show. I am almost out of it now, and it has performed flawlessly. And then again, there is always Wolf. DILBERT_556
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 8:19:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By bwilliams: .......can any one please recommend a good quality 55gr ammo for my 16" 1x9 chrome lined HBAR? Thanks.
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If you can locate some 62grn your accuracy should be marginally improved as you have a 1:9 twist barrel. (55grn is the 'sweet spot' for a 1:12 twist barrel.)
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 9:16:18 PM EDT
I bought some nice Win Q3131a from ammoman.com. It is actually IMI made 55 gr fmj ammo.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 4:18:39 AM EDT
I thought that 62gr was the sweet spot for 1x7. Do you have a reference that discusses grain to twist advantages? Thanks for the info.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 7:24:02 AM EDT
Get Barnaul. I always found it far superior to SA in every respect. BTW 1 x9 does favor 62gr. 1x7 was for the heavier 69-75gr loads.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 7:30:13 AM EDT
Originally Posted By shotar: Get Barnaul. I always found it far superior to SA in every respect. BTW 1 x9 does favor 62gr. 1x7 was for the heavier 69-75gr loads.
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Isn't Barnaul steel cased like Wolf?
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 7:42:12 AM EDT
I was looking at all my targets last night! I keep them so I know What Loads Do better and to BRAG. My Bushy HBAR 16 SHORTY Shot the PMP Gazelle Brown Box Very Tight Groups and its the same manufacture as the SA! Its a little slower though!
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 8:41:46 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bwilliams: I thought that 62gr was the sweet spot for 1x7. Do you have a reference that discusses grain to twist advantages? Thanks for the info.
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Just and old, tired memory. The 'accuracy sweet spot' bullet weights and twist go something like this : 1:12 = 55grn 1:9 = 62grn 1:7 = 69grn Doesn't mean you can't shoot 55grn in a 1:9 barrel but, all other factors the same, you should obtain max accuracy by matching the above bullets with the above twists. (Now there are those will correctly argue that bullet length and not bullet weight is the determining factor. However, the above is meant to be a 'practical exercise' and unless you plan to shoot nuclear tipped sabot rounds bullet length is not likely to come into play.)
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 8:48:15 AM EDT
After doing some more in-depth research this morning, I've found that I should be using M855 - as you said, 62gr. Now off to find a good source for M855...
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 9:13:34 AM EDT
Originally Posted By bwilliams: After doing some more in-depth research this morning, I've found that I should be using M855 - as you said, 62gr. Now off to find a good source for M855...
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PLEASE let us know what you find. I have three AR's with 1:9 twist barrels and am running low on 62grn. (One of the reasons I love my old ArmaLite AR-180 prebans is because those AR's use 1:12 twist barrels and 55grn milsurp is always plentiful.)
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 10:02:08 AM EDT
So far I have found: [url]http://www.ammoman.com/webstore_223.htm[/url] Although Ammoman does not specify M855 - $239.00 shipped for 1000 rounds. An here: [url]http://www.botach.com/IMI/IMIAmmo/556mm%2062gr%20M855%20FMJ.htm[/url] That's the real deal - $280.00 + shipping for 1200 rounds.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 10:08:18 AM EDT
Good luck if you order from Botach, make sure you talk to a person a verify that your items are CURRENTLY in stock.
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 10:19:18 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Stickman: Good luck if you order from Botach, make sure you talk to a person a verify that your items are CURRENTLY in stock.
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AGREED !!
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 10:42:32 AM EDT
Link Posted: 5/26/2003 12:21:04 PM EDT
After helping tear a fairly new Colt down to get a stuck Wolf casing out, do yourself a favor and don't shoot that sh-t!
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 4:29:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Stickman: Good luck if you order from Botach, make sure you talk to a person a verify that your items are CURRENTLY in stock.
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Not having heard many good things about Botach, I took your advice when ordering a 1200 round case of IMI M855. I first called and verified both the stock status and the current price. I then proceeded to prepare and fax my order. I then called again to verify that they had successfully received it and would process it. They assured me that it would be both processed and shipped today. As of 20:20 EDT my card has been properly billed ($280.00 or $308.00 for 34 pounds shipped). I'll keep the group posted on my experience when I receive the goods. Thanks.
Link Posted: 5/27/2003 4:46:52 PM EDT
55 gr will run OK in 1x9 barrels. The heavier (and thus longer) the bullet, the faster it has to spin to stabilize. So, for a given bullet wt, there is a required twist. But that does not mean that for a given twist, a ligher bullet is not also stabilized. 1x14 Will just barely stabilize 55 gr, and will stabilize ligher bullets. 1x12 Will stabilize 55 gr and all lighter bullets. Will NOT stabilize 62 gr. 1x10 Will just barely stabilize 69 gr, and will stabilize all lighter bullets. 62 gr will do just fine in a 1x10 barrel. 1x9 Ditto -- This will easily stabilize all from 40 gr up to 69 gr. This is the best all around twist for most .223/5.56 applications. 1x8, 1x8.5 Ditt, found in target barrels. 1x7 Will stabilize the very heavy 77 and 80 gr bullets, and as well as all lighter bullets. This is also the NATO spec twist.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 7:17:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/28/2003 7:17:53 PM EDT by criley]
Originally Posted By Stickman: Good luck if you order from Botach, make sure you talk to a person a verify that your items are CURRENTLY in stock.
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Buyer calls Botach: "Do you have XYZ brand 5.56 in stock? I want one case." Botach cust serv rep (he says with a straight face) says: "Please hold while I check." Botach cust serv rep flips coin. Gets back on the phone and says: "Yes sir we sure do. We can ship it Thursday." (Note they didn't say [i]which Thursday[/i].) Actually I have heard ammo orders generally work out okay. Sometimes. Hope yours does.
Link Posted: 5/28/2003 7:50:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By criley:
Originally Posted By Stickman: Good luck if you order from Botach, make sure you talk to a person a verify that your items are CURRENTLY in stock.
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Buyer calls Botach: "Do you have XYZ brand 5.56 in stock? I want one case." Botach cust serv rep (he says with a straight face) says: "Please hold while I check." Botach cust serv rep flips coin. Gets back on the phone and says: "Yes sir we sure do. We can ship it Thursday." (Note they didn't say [i]which Thursday[/i].) Actually I have heard ammo orders generally work out okay. Sometimes. Hope yours does.
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Minus a few details, that's about what my call sounded like. I had no idea Botach was reviled so terribly. The problem is, they are the only game in North America to get IMI ammo. I just hope my case comes in timely and correctly. 1200 rounds should hold me over for a little while...
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