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Posted: 5/20/2003 2:38:08 PM EDT
Seems like the more I read here to more I hear people proclaiming different brand AR suck except for what they shoot. But everyone shoots something different so they all must suck???

Just yesterday I showed a dealer my AR and asked if he ever dealt with DPMS stuff. He replied that they stay away from DPMS cause it is low end stuff. Of course he sells RRA. Archery shops are notorious for that shit too. You bow sucks until the next year when you walk in and find out they are now selling your brand!@#$%^&
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 2:44:08 PM EDT
Yup, good point. I dont think people really mean they suck, I just think they prefer the brand they own, but alot of times it is bacause it is the brand that they own that they prefer it, iven if its not the best. It helps you feel better about an expensive purchace.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 2:58:07 PM EDT
It's the old Chevy vs. Ford question that been debated for year when everyone knows that both suck and the only good cars are BMWs.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 2:59:48 PM EDT
Dogcatcher. It's just like when you try to sell your car to a car lot or your firearm to a gun shop. They give all kinds of reasons why yours is only worth x amount - "Oh, they made millions of those. That will sit forever and I can't get rid of them." Or, "That model you have was plagued with reliability problems." BUT --- look at any of their cars on the lot, or their guns on the shelves (just like yours), and you would think by the price they have on them that they are one of a kind models and gold plated! My advice to you is avoid that guy that trash talked your rig. Find a shop that respects what you shoot because you shoot, not because you own a product he sells. Don't forget, he's just the middle man in a the real scheme of things. Good luck to you.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 3:23:35 PM EDT
The rifle is only as good as the person behind it. [;)]
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 3:26:00 PM EDT
Some people can't be happy just having what they have. They have to think it is BETTER than what everyone else has. It's the difference between finding happiness in absolute terms (I enjoy shooting my rifle) and relative terms (My rifle is better than everyone else's).
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 3:33:33 PM EDT
I believe some of it is that us gun people(and people in general) can't ever forgive for a bad product. Do a search on "olympic", you'll find a bunch of positive replies, and a few dead set against them. The few will ALWAYS chime in with their bad experience, and proclaim that the product sucks. This kind of reminds me of work, the worthless democrats are always spouting off about how bad George Bush is and how we went to war for oil. But we republicans, never shoved it down their throat, that our president was shoving it down an interns throat. My way of thinking is that the people who bitch the most and loudest, probably have little man/fat woman syndrome. Steve
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:11:02 PM EDT
I did allot of research before I just bought my first ar. I read lots of posts and asked lots of questions. I really didn't hear too many posts say that one manufacture sucked unless they had a problem with it. But most said they thought the one they owned was either the best or just as good but less money so it was a better deal. When I first started my search I had only heard of Colt and Armalite. Then bookoo Bushmater people followed by the DPMS and RRA followers. I have never heard anyone ever say Colt or Armalite sucked, just that they were overpriced. I don't really know what the quality of DPMS and RRA are (though many on this site say they are great)but anyone buying the Colt,Armalite and Bushmaster paid more because they believe they are better so they justified the price. The DPMS and RRA people believe that theirs are almost or just as good for less and justify not getting the (top three)Colt,Armalite or Bushmaster because why pay more. From the posts I have read all five of those manufacturers are good quality and I don't think anybody would be unhappy with any of them unless they owned some super top of the line rifle.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:12:13 PM EDT
Thanks for the replies! I thought my DPMS was a nice gun until I was told otherwise, haha.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 5:21:40 PM EDT
Are you guys saying that Hesse is just as good as BM?? I think not... Its probably that they heard something was bad so all their products suck. I know I am turned off of GM products (Chevy) because of hassles I had with their corporate customer service, and won't buy another again. But, that doesn't mean that all GM products suck. I would just prefer not to have that hassle again.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 6:13:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/20/2003 6:25:13 PM EDT by Falcatta]
I tend to chalk that up to most people just plain suck and leave it at that. :) Just shake that off shoot it as much as you can and be damn proud that Brand "insert name here" is totally kick ass.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 7:05:57 PM EDT
The few will ALWAYS chime in with their bad experience, and proclaim that the product sucks. END Well if they are chiming in with a real experience like I did it kind of proves that their products SUCK. In oly's case its like comparing a Ford or Chevy to a pile of crab that in the junk yard. PAT
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 7:24:01 PM EDT
Hey, if your gun of choice works for you and you like it, that's all that matters. I have a couple of old colt .45s and shoot with guys with Kimbers and Wilsons and every thing else, but my 'cheaper, plain, stock, run of the mill' colts still shoot fine for me. I like the other guy's guns too, but some people are just gungho (sp.?) about what they own and that's the last word. Enjoy what you have and if you find something else you like, get one of those too. It seems sometimes that, after I've been shooting for a while, I will always pull out an old winchester single shot .22 that my Grandfather gave me and go shoot it with open sights and reclaim the great joy of the hobby without worry of brand or caliber or anything else that anyone on a forum can argue about. (I don't really think it's arguing because I think we all enjoy reading each other's opinion or we wouldn't be a part of a forum). Anyway, aside from brand loyalty, I think that for the most part all of the major ar manufacturers' guns are quality, although I haven't been able to shoot all of them. But, to me, one of the cool things about the AR is if there is something you don't like about the particular one you have, you don't have to buy a whole new gun to make it suit your needs!!! That makes it a great gun to me......besides the fact that almost all of them from most manufacturers shoot great out of the box...so enjoy your DPMS and screw what the other guys think about it. Just my 2/100 worth.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 7:31:38 PM EDT
every one defends their own habbit whether it be cars, guns, drinking.......but i have news my bushie is better that yours...why .......cause its mine!!!!1
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 7:46:57 PM EDT
I have Bushmaster, Colt, DPMS, Eagle Arms, KAC, and RRA AR15s. They all go bang when I pull the trigger. I do not have any complaints with any of them.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 7:47:55 PM EDT
Im sorry my first post was so long....I forgot to mention..... Bushy's Rock!!
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 7:48:13 PM EDT
Yep I know wht you mean, Have you ever heard a bait store say the fishing is terrible. THey always say the fish are biting, otherwise they would not sell bait. I find several gun stores that you cannot have a normal conversation with the man behind the counter. They are always too upset at the world & have too much negativity to answer a question. Now on the other end of the spectrum I find that There are people out there that do whatever it takes to answer my question. QUESTION: why is there never a traffic jam at the extra mile? --------- Because not that many people go the extra mile... Spread the word to your fellow shooters about those good stores you have positive encounters at... Prosise As for me, I cannot say much about any AR manufacturer. Until I personally deal with them & have a problem Ill just listen. You have two ears, two eyes & one mouth so listen & watch twice as much as you speak & you will usually learn something....
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 7:58:44 PM EDT
What's that??? Uh huh??? What, tell the board??? WEll, OK... My Bush MASTER begs to disagree, it says it is the Best Rifle made. Not yours... [sniper2]
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 8:14:45 PM EDT
Nothing aggravates me more than this attitude about products in general. My dad has always been this way about everything, even with me. If I tell him I bought xyz he says "oh, it's okay, but I have abc and it's the best". As a kid this used to piss me off royally and I was glad I didn't live with him. Most people also hate when someone else has something better so they put down products and companies they don't have to "save face". I call it the "Big Dick Syndrome". I have a friend who I refuse to go shooting with because the Galil is the "best rifle in the world" and ARs are "junk that jam". You can't convince him otherwise, even though my Bushy has never jammed.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 8:33:14 PM EDT
ALL AR's AND M16's SUCK!!!! [puke]
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 9:52:24 PM EDT
What you refer to is what I have called "The high school football team syndrome" for many years. Most of us went to a particular high school because of where are parents lived. But since we went there, we had the best football team. Even if you lost every game for the four years you went there, WE ARE #1. You just couldn't admit that you sucked. So, when I hear someone proclaim a product to be the best, and their only reason is because they own one, I call it the High School Football Team Syndrome.
Link Posted: 5/20/2003 10:29:35 PM EDT
That dealer was a dumb shit. DPMS and RRA use the SAME EXACT forgings from the SAME EXACT company and have them machined by the SAME EXACT machinists. The only thing different is the laser engraved logo and final assembly. They are just as good if not better than Bushmaster. Period.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 3:59:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DevilsAdvocate: That dealer was a dumb shit. DPMS and RRA use the SAME EXACT forgings from the SAME EXACT company and have them machined by the SAME EXACT machinists. The only thing different is the laser engraved logo and final assembly. They are just as good if not better than Bushmaster. Period.
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END OF STORY!
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 4:15:43 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DevilsAdvocate: That dealer was a dumb shit. DPMS and RRA use the SAME EXACT forgings from the SAME EXACT company and have them machined by the SAME EXACT machinists. The only thing different is the laser engraved logo and final assembly. They are just as good if not better than Bushmaster. Period.
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I don't think so. I've both DPMS an RR lowers, and they are quite different. The DPMS has the low shelf at the back; the RR has a high shelf. Machining at the front of the reciever is quite different. Internal machining on the DPMS is an exact duplicate of the Bushmaster. Rock River is very different. I have Colt, Bushmaster, Rock River, and DPMS based ARs. Each has it's strong points; each has defecits----but like the man said, they all go bang when I pull the trigger.[:D]
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 4:50:50 AM EDT
My problem is I have never met an AR I didn't like! Peoples personal knowledge is what they own and thus prefer. Preference is confused with quality and value often. I will get flamed but regardless of the manufacturer if the rifle is made to by Mil process and to Mil specs, they should be very close to each other. Where you run into issue is in quality control of the manufacturing process which leads to the old saying it's a good must have been made on Wednesday. Tj
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 5:28:28 AM EDT
I have officially become a AR junk dealer, any of you Moorons who think they are a piece just mail them to my house. I will be sure and get rid of them for you.. I will assure you they will be shot so much over the next (hopefully) 50 years that they will be worthless... I will sign in writing that I will neglect them, then clean them, then neglect them.. Because "they suck"... I think not. I will even swap you straight up for a classic daisy bb gun, or one of those air soft jobs, by the way where do you get those airsoft guns anyway. I have never in my life seen one in a gun store.. You will never have to shoot another real gun again. There is an old saying, everyone Jacks off differently... [stick] Prosise p.s. address on request.... Ill even pay shipping!
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 6:19:01 AM EDT
The real reason everyone else's ARs suck is that they aren't all RRA! [smoke]
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 6:51:44 AM EDT
All AR's suck... They are causing me to go broke. Dammit.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 11:05:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Prosise: I will even swap you straight up for a classic daisy bb gun, or one of those air soft jobs, by the way where do you get those airsoft guns anyway. I have never in my life seen one in a gun store.. You will never have to shoot another real gun again.
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Here, but they ain't cheap. [url]http://www.747imports.com/electric747.htm[/url]
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 1:39:08 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 444: What you refer to is what I have called "The high school football team syndrome" for many years. Most of us went to a particular high school because of where are parents lived. But since we went there, we had the best football team. Even if you lost every game for the four years you went there, WE ARE #1. You just couldn't admit that you sucked. So, when I hear someone proclaim a product to be the best, and their only reason is because they own one, I call it the High School Football Team Syndrome.
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No, really... I'm sitting here reading all this, and I swear my Bushmaster is emphatic that it is the best... Wait a minute, uh huh... OK, it wants to clarify what it means. It said that (and I will quote it directly so that nothing will be lost in the translation) - "[b]I[/b] am the best rifle there is." I think he's trying to imply that this has nothing to do with the manufacturer... Let me ask... Yeah, He's the best... [sniper2] _____________________ Haven't been in High School for over 30 years...
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 5:41:53 PM EDT
THIS IS MY RIFLE. THERE ARE MANY LIKE IT, BUT THIS ONE IS MINE. MY RIFLE IS MY BEST FRIEND. IT IS MY LIFE. I MUST MASTER IT AS I MASTER MY LIFE. MY RIFLE, WITHOUT ME IS USELESS. WITHOUT MY RIFLE, I AM USELESS. I MUST FIRE MY RIFLE TRUE. I MUST SHOOT STRAIGHTER THAN MY ENEMY WHO IS TRYING TO KILL ME. I MUST SHOOT HIM BEFORE HE SHOOTS ME. I WILL... MY RIFLE AND MYSELF KNOW THAT WHAT COUNTS IN THIS WAR IS NOT THE ROUNDS WE FIRE, THE NOISE OF OUR BURST, NOR THE SMOKE WE MAKE. WE KNOW THAT IT IS THE HITS THAT COUNT. WE WILL HIT... MY RIFLE IS HUMAN, EVEN AS I, BECAUSE IT IS MY LIFE. THUS, I WILL LEARN IT AS A BROTHER. I WILL LEARN ITS WEAKNESS, ITS STRENGTH, ITS PARTS, ITS ACCESSORIES, ITS SIGHTS AND BARREL. I WILL KEEP MY RIFLE CLEAN AND READY, EVEN AS I AM CLEAN AND READY. WE WILL BECOME PART OF EACH OTHER. WE WILL... BEFORE GOD I SWEAR THIS CREED. MY RIFLE AND MYSELF ARE THE DEFENDERS OF MY COUNTRY. WE ARE THE MASTERS OF OUR ENEMY. WE ARE THE SAVIORS OF MY LIFE. SO BE IT, UNTIL VICTORY IS AMERICA'S AND THERE IS NO ENEMY, BUT PEACE.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 5:13:42 PM EDT
Some AR's suck because of the people that make them and sell them or the disfunction of their owners. If you happen to dislike Olympic Arms, you get accused of lying about your experience or having "little man syndrome" or whatever. For some reason the folks that own that brand have "teenie weenie" syndrome and get defensive rather quickly. If you dislike any other brand, many people are willing to discuss it with you rationally and direct you to someone who can correct the problem. The Oly guys seem to want to beat you up or call you names, neither of which will actually fix your gun,,,hahaha. I happen to prefer RRA and Bushmaster, I have gotten great quality and service from both of those companies.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 6:24:01 PM EDT
I get the same thing from people about my Cetme. Yes they do not have a good track record. That is Centurys fault though the rifle it's self is a good rifle. Mine is great! I hear all the time you should have built a FAL. That thing will never shoot like a FAL. If you had bought a FAL you would have something. Well I can put rounds in the 10 and 9 ring of the life size silloettes with no problems at 150 yards with open sights and any ammo I feed it. Now for guys that are real shooters that might not be good but for me and open sights that is acceptable. Now the guy that was going to get me the lower for my AR says why did you buy a rifle there? You paid too much. I could have gotten you a new one for............ But when he know I wanted an AR he never told me he could get me one. He orders for me from FAC and places like that. All they had were Olympic and Hesse and I didn't want them. He sells me stuff at cost but never told me he could get a good deal so I bought this one when another friend found it. Now he thinks because he is a compitition shooter I should set my stuff up like him. Like I told him, He is shooting at Camp Perry not me.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 6:59:03 PM EDT
To tell the truth I don't know what brand mine is. I bought the upper kit with all lower parts except the receiver, I machined the receiver myself, put it all together, test fired and fixed a few problems that were self inflicted. (With the help of a few people on this site), and now I have an AR15 that I am proud of and it cost me about $500.00 included shipping.All new parts too I might add. Now what can you say bad about this gun. Oh yes I might add also it is unregistered and legal.It shoots flawless. So you can't bash my AR because it doesn't have a name, but someone will probably say it's no good because it doesn't have a name brand.
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 7:33:50 AM EDT
Just purchased a RRA...love it. Thinking of buying a colt and bushmaster to keep her company. I agree that every company has thier strengths and weaknesses. What can often be a brands strength can also be thier weak point.... Just find what fits your needs. What may be impractical to me may fit your criteria so who are we to judge. The thing I find comical are the pretty ARs dressed up with 3 tact lights and 300 feet of paracord...... but again it fits your criteria.
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 7:57:56 AM EDT
i got a colt all others suck
Link Posted: 5/23/2003 9:42:18 AM EDT
Colt is too politically correct for my taste. They added a block and changed their pins so they cannot be easily converted for LEGAL full-auto. Sounds alot like Ruger and their Mini GB guns. I'll stick with BM and RRA.
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