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Posted: 5/10/2003 6:14:42 PM EDT
I am fairly new to all this AR-15 stuff and am in the process of getting my first one. I know I want the M4 lool-alike version but have found two possible candidates, the Oly CAR-97M4 and the Bushmaster XM15 E2S M4. Both guns have their differences but I was wondering which has a better overall record/performance. Also, I just happened today to stumble across the new Colt site and got a look at their civilian M4 version (6400C). Anyone's perspective on any of these guns would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 6:53:54 PM EDT
Bushmaster is mil. spec. I think most on this board will take a Bushy over an Oly any day.
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 7:25:41 PM EDT
Agreed between the two the Bushy is the better rifle.
Link Posted: 5/10/2003 8:30:37 PM EDT
Might want to check out Rock River Arms as well. Excellent gun at a great price.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 6:47:09 AM EDT
If you want a lifetime warranty and a more accurate shooter, go with Olympic Arms.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 11:00:35 AM EDT
No contest... Bushmaster. IF YOU BUY THE OLY, YOU WILL NEED THE LIFETIME WARRANTY !!!
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 12:59:41 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gunslinger808: Bushmaster is mil. spec. I think most on this board will take a Bushy over an Oly any day.
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While I agree on B/M over Olympic, I disagree that the B/M (or any other AR available to civilians) is Mil-Spec.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 1:01:54 PM EDT
I don't know what you are basing your opinion on, but I've put thousands and thousands of rounds through an Olympic carbine over the last 10 years. I've never had a malfunction regardless of the type of ammo used, even when I have not been as good about cleaning and lubing it at times. It also shoots into about an inch at 100 yards prone off a bag. I think the only AR weapon system that is not mil-spec is Colt. All the others should be interchangeable.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 1:05:05 PM EDT
Olympic
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 1:18:26 PM EDT
The Olympics today are as good as any of the other brands in that price range. It could almost come down to do you want a lifetime warranty or not.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 3:06:05 PM EDT
Thanks for all the info. But no one has really mentioned anything about the Colt M4 civilian model. Does anyone have any info/experience with that gun? I only ask because all 3 brands are in the same general price range, and any choice will be a tough one as they all have their pros and cons. Thanks.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 3:28:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mattld: Thanks for all the info. But no one has really mentioned anything about the Colt M4 civilian model. Does anyone have any info/experience with that gun? I only ask because all 3 brands are in the same general price range, and any choice will be a tough one as they all have their pros and cons. Thanks.
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Did something say something about a brand comparison chart? Try them out. They are all nice. I am partial to RRA, but I wouldn't kick an SP-1 out of bed!
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 5:33:30 PM EDT
I have a bushy now, but wouldent turn down an oly. Also, dont forget about DPMS.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 5:52:50 PM EDT
Where are these brand comparison charts? Any links would be appreciated. Now maybe I can figure out which brand is the best for my needs. Thanks.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 6:57:20 PM EDT
If you want cheap and low resale with a bad warranty, buy OLY. If you want something made to mil-spec that works buy Bushmaster.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 7:25:53 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mattld: Thanks for all the info. But no one has really mentioned anything about the Colt M4 civilian model. Does anyone have any info/experience with that gun? I only ask because all 3 brands are in the same general price range, and any choice will be a tough one as they all have their pros and cons. Thanks.
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I have a 6400c and it's really nice. Probably the nicest Colt produced in years. I choose it over the Bushy for the following reasons: 1. Comes standard with 1/7 twist 2. Comes standard with M4 handguards 3. Comes standard with M4 feed ramps 4. Comes standard with side sling mount 5. Has a 16" barrel instead of a 14.5"* so in case I didn't want a muzzle break I could remove it and still be legal. 6. Had the RAS numbers on the flattop 7. Had "M4 Carbine" stamped on the lower (dumb I know but I thought it is was cool). One con against the Colt is the oversized trigger and hammer pins. Colt doesn't use the standard size. I didn't think it was a big deal until I broke a J-Pin on my preban. If it would have been standard size I would have been up and running that day because I have an extra hammer but instead I had to order one (and Colt parts are expensive). However, my 6400 shoots great, has a beautiful fit and finish and is darn accurate...well, as accurate as I'll ever be. *At the time Bushmaster did not offer the Patrolman's carbine like it does now.
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 7:34:51 PM EDT
Sounds like a cool gun, but is it a Pre or Post-ban gun? (I assume post-ban but I'm still learning all this stuff on the fly). And also, what does the compensator that it comes with look like? And, to further my questioning, do the Colt parts, especially these J-Pins you speak of, break easily? Because if that gun isn't very reliable that might affect my decision. Thanks!
Link Posted: 5/11/2003 7:45:51 PM EDT
The 6400 is a postban. The muzzle brake looks big and stupid but I plan on swapping it out for a fake flash suppressor or Kurt's A2 TacBrake...haven't decided which. The J-Pin that broke was on my preban, not my 6400c. My preban is over 14 years old and that was an original part. They do fail from time to time, not often but it happens. My shooting buddy had one break a number of years ago too and he knew immediately what happened. Just one of those freak things I guess.
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 8:25:33 AM EDT
Originally Posted By KirkP: I think the only AR weapon system that is not mil-spec is Colt. All the others should be interchangeable.
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Interchangeability isn't the Mil-SPec issue. There are several components to being 'Mil-Spec'. If you follow the 'spec for the M16A2 & M4 you will find they are a PERFORMANCE specification (max failure rate & accuracy) - they also specify you are to use a set of drawings.. However once you get into the drawing there are many other specs that are involved - many of which OLY [b]DOESN'T[/b] meet, that Bushmaster and Colt do. These are the specs that are important to handling abuse (like materials & coatings). Off the top of my head I can name things like barrel material, chrome lining, sealed - hard coat anodizing, bolt carrier material, and shot peening of the bolt. (Heck Bushy doesn't even follow the last two - but Colt does). Get into the M4s' there are the extended feed ramps and the different front sight base. If you can live with the different fire control pins the Colt M4 will be the closest to the specifications, with the Bushy being #2, I'd put the RRA at #3 (chrome lining & hard coat anodizing).
Link Posted: 5/12/2003 9:31:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/12/2003 9:36:00 AM EDT by triburst1]
Most of the anti-Oly/pro-Bushy guys are in denial. They give Oly a bad rap because they are less expensive. They also make a lot of noise about the cast reciever Plinker even though DPMS also makes cast guns and people don't curse them for it. I have Colt and 2 Olys, and if I had to get red of one the Colt would be the first to go. One Oly I've got, I traded a Bushy for and I am very glad I did. The Olys are both more accurate than the Bushy or Colt. They are just as reliable, the fit is much better and the finishes match perfectly, which is more than I can say for the Colt or Bushy. The Colt and Bushy guys also seem to forget that Oly has made barrels and triggers for thousands of Colts and Bushys over the years. If Olys are so inferior, why would they buy two of the most important parts for their rifles. Oly makes more of their rifles parts in house than any other manufacturer. Colt, I believe, makes a total of 4 of their own parts. Oly also has the balls and decency to stand behind their products with excellant customer service and a lifetime warranty Unlike Colt, Oly doesn't make deals to appease the antis. I would take an Olympic Arms rifle over any other brand, regardless of price. ***Please excuse any typos, I'm forced to use a damn PC today instead of a MAC, and the keyboards are different.***
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