Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 3/23/2003 10:09:41 PM EDT
Any help on this would be appreciated.
Link Posted: 3/23/2003 10:17:07 PM EDT
I believe the answer is no. The ATF considers a suppressor a flash hiding device.. and may not be attached to a post ban upper/ non threaded bbl.. Any readers please correct me if I am off base here.. John
Link Posted: 3/23/2003 10:17:49 PM EDT
Sorry, no, you can not.
Link Posted: 3/23/2003 10:58:49 PM EDT
If its a mini or something you can, provided that it is legal for you to attach a flash suppressor. On a post ban AR, no way.
Link Posted: 3/24/2003 12:06:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/24/2003 4:15:07 AM EDT
I just went through this same discussion with my local Class III dealer. I wanted to register an AR as a short barreled rifle and also have the option of suppressing it. The only way this can be done is with a pre-ban rifle. Registering the rifle as an SBR does not trump the ban. Having a tax stamp for a suppressor does not trump the ban.
Link Posted: 3/24/2003 4:32:21 AM EDT
check out this site, i am looking at a suppressor for my Rem 700 LTR 223 from these guys. [url]http//:www.soundtechsilencers.com[/url] there was an artilce in Varmint Hunter mag about these guys. They have info on the ATF rules and what not.
Link Posted: 3/24/2003 7:31:28 AM EDT
You could put a thumbhole stock on a post ban AR and legally add a suppressor. OR you could perm. attach the magazine (ie, no longer detachable) and add a can or a FH or a bayo-lug...
Link Posted: 3/24/2003 8:27:06 AM EDT
Fight for the sunset of AW ban in 2004 and you can have all the E-VUL features on it! [:D]
Link Posted: 3/24/2003 8:30:38 AM EDT
You could put a thumbhole stock on a post ban AR and legally add a suppressor.
View Quote
I believe a thumbhole stock is still considered a pistol grip, so you wouldn't be able to add a suppressor.
Link Posted: 3/24/2003 11:37:15 AM EDT
I can't speak for the ATF but I have read that a thumbhole stock does not qualify as a pistol grip. But who cares ? I don't want to have a mickey mouse stock or a fixed magazine I want to suppress an AR15. This can be done. It just has to be a pre-ban rifle.
Link Posted: 3/24/2003 1:32:25 PM EDT
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 4:52:07 PM EDT
i think the thumbhole stock is an example of how the ATF will say you can have the stock, then say you cant have it, and insist that no matter what they say, they can make a different decision after they seize your gun imo
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 6:05:36 PM EDT
Wait a minute... There is a way...legally. I use a Gogogadgets.net vertical grip that is not considered a protruding pistol grip in the eyes of the ATF. Its like the ZM weapons version, only it is longer and is comfortable. I can legally add a suppressor because the threaded barrel is my one bad part. Just thought I would throw that in...
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 6:31:44 PM EDT
But if your threaded barrel is one bad feature then the sound suppressor that is considered a flash suppressor also would add up to two evil features by my math.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 7:33:11 PM EDT
You could, but you would have to goto Jail, do not pass start & not collect your 200$... By the way, you landed on my property so pay me rent... I like the idea about fighting for the sunset & add as much as you like.... prosise
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 8:53:39 PM EDT
While not the general concensus there are some lawyer types and NFA dealers who believe that pre-ban no longer qualifies once the SBR manufacturing is complete as in thier opinion they are new manuf. post 94 guns.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 9:08:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hero: But if your threaded barrel is one bad feature then the sound suppressor that is considered a flash suppressor also would add up to two evil features by my math.
View Quote
WRONG again. You can have 1 of the two: 1. Flash hider with threads 2. Threads Since a silencer is also a flash-hider, #1 works. Simple way to bypass the current AW ban. Make your post-ban full-auto (legally of course), thus its no longer goverened by the current AW ban which is only for semi-auto.
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 9:11:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Energizer: Simple way to bypass the current AW ban. Make your post-ban full-auto (legally of course), thus its no longer goverened by the current AW ban which is only for semi-auto.
View Quote
What about FOPA 1986?
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 9:22:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By naloxone:
Originally Posted By Energizer: Simple way to bypass the current AW ban. Make your post-ban full-auto (legally of course), thus its no longer goverened by the current AW ban which is only for semi-auto.
View Quote
What about FOPA 1986?
View Quote
What about it?
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 9:30:15 PM EDT
I thought the only way to make it a full auto is to buy a M16 reciever, which is about 4000 & the paperwork. Then pay 200 for the tax stamp. AM i missing something. Prosise
Link Posted: 5/21/2003 9:44:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/21/2003 9:45:58 PM EDT by Energizer]
Originally Posted By Prosise: I thought the only way to make it a full auto is to buy a M16 reciever, which is about 4000 & the paperwork. Then pay 200 for the tax stamp. AM i missing something. Prosise
View Quote
Yes. You are missing at least two other options which can use post-ban receivers (that are not blocked like newer Colt's, which may also require some gunsmithing and/or some M16 parts...). 1. Registered drop-in auto sear 2. Registered lightning link
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 5:08:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Energizer:
Originally Posted By Hero: But if your threaded barrel is one bad feature then the sound suppressor that is considered a flash suppressor also would add up to two evil features by my math.
View Quote
WRONG again. You can have 1 of the two: 1. Flash hider with threads 2. Threads Since a silencer is also a flash-hider, #1 works. Simple way to bypass the current AW ban. Make your post-ban full-auto (legally of course), thus its no longer goverened by the current AW ban which is only for semi-auto.
View Quote
Exactly, that is why my post-ban setup is a legal way to add a suppressor.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 6:18:54 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DOA: Exactly, that is why my post-ban setup is a legal way to add a suppressor.
View Quote
I have an extra Colt pre-ban 20" match H-BAR upper that I want to preserve without welding a brake on it, and its very accurate. I've thought about doing this same thing so I can put it on a post-ban lower... and luckily, I don't have to neuter the bayonet lug since it doesn't have one. [:D]
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 6:20:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DOA: Wait a minute... There is a way...legally. I use a Gogogadgets.net vertical grip that is not considered a protruding pistol grip in the eyes of the ATF. Its like the ZM weapons version, only it is longer and is comfortable. I can legally add a suppressor because the threaded barrel is my one bad part. Just thought I would throw that in...
View Quote
Can you post a pic to this "vertical grip"? I went to the site, and the merchandise, in fact all of the links, appear to have nothing on them....? What's it cost? Thanks.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 11:53:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/22/2003 12:04:55 PM EDT by RenegadeX]
Here is the relevant law: A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of the following characteristics: a) a folding or telescopic stock; b) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon; c) a bayonet mount; d) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and e) a grenade launcher; So there is no prohibition on sound suppressors. Threads are a different story, but: So, from (d), it is simple English to read and see that since a post-ban gun usually has no threads, you are NOT threading it for a flash suppressor, but threading it for a Sound Suppressor. If Congress wanted to ban threads, they could have added section (f), stating "threads of any kind". If they wanted to ban Sound Suppressors, they could have added section (g) stating "a sound suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a sound suppressor". They didn't; clearly they did not intend this or they would have written the law this way. [b]The whole thing got muddied, when BATF issued a ruling that a sound suppressor was a flash hider, (a flash suppressor is NOT a sound suppressor though), and was thus illegal to attach via any method. This is why you are being told, no you cannot attach a sound suppressor to a post-ban rifle.[/b] This is a good example of why this law is so bad, and MUST not be allowed to be re-newed.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 1:50:29 PM EDT
Oh, news to me. I was of the impression that the flash suppressor and the threads that it was on counted as two features, not one. Learned something new...
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 3:17:52 PM EDT
As for the attachment of the "CAN"....it can be done without threads.There are several threadless type mounting systems that are made by the manufacturer of the suppressors.Such mount has been referred to as a bayonet lok or B-Lok as marketed by Gemtech.As for the flash suppressor part of the can....that is a gray area and will be construed differently by several individuals.The suppressor is marketed as suppressing sound signature...not flash.It is known though that a "can" suppresses flash and muzzle blast as well.Just as it acts as a muzzle brake too.IMO and only in my opinion...is it OK to mount a sound suppressor on a post ban if the proper mounting system is mounted to the barrel considering that it is a sound suppressor as intentionally marketed.It will aslo be readily and quickly removable if the need arised to mask it.You can find this on GemTechs website referred to as the B-Lok.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 4:30:36 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 00bullitt: is it OK to mount a sound suppressor on a post ban if the proper mounting system is mounted to the barrel considering that it is a sound suppressor as intentionally marketed.
View Quote
HK 3-lug is an example of a mounting system that is not threads. The law says what the law says. The BATF has their interpretation. As far as I know there is not Case Law to decide what is final. This is why pre-ban receivers cost more. Get one, remove all doubt.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 4:48:46 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Energizer:
Originally Posted By DOA: Wait a minute... There is a way...legally. I use a Gogogadgets.net vertical grip that is not considered a protruding pistol grip in the eyes of the ATF. Its like the ZM weapons version, only it is longer and is comfortable. I can legally add a suppressor because the threaded barrel is my one bad part. Just thought I would throw that in...
View Quote
Can you post a pic to this "vertical grip"? I went to the site, and the merchandise, in fact all of the links, appear to have nothing on them....? What's it cost? Thanks.
View Quote
[url]http://www.printroom.com/EditAlbumPhoto.asp?userid=007hitman&album_id=128685&image_id=6[/url] Not sure if this link works. Was $35. including shipping. Havent been to the website in awhile. Ph# 530-674-9179. email:angelam@mako.com He takes forever to get back to you. I was willing to give up some comfort to be able to have a suppressor, but found it just as comfortable as if I had the pistol grip.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 5:30:31 PM EDT
I just went to the site. He seems to be updating it. I'd email him about it.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 5:42:17 PM EDT
As much as I would love to own a sound suppressor, I'm not sure I'd want other people around me to have sound suppressors. Hmm...
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 6:04:56 PM EDT
Originally Posted By David_Hineline: While not the general concensus there are some lawyer types and NFA dealers who believe that pre-ban no longer qualifies once the SBR manufacturing is complete as in thier opinion they are new manuf. post 94 guns.
View Quote
This was my understanding, but a bunch of folks here said they had read an ATF written ruling that indicated that a pre-ban, which had been SBR-ed after the ban, was still considered a pre-ban. I would be very interested in seeing this in writing. Hopefully, none of this crap will matter in 1.4 years.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 6:22:56 PM EDT
I was wondering if a person has to have a license to put a suppressor on a pre-ban. Or is it just one of the things allowed.
Link Posted: 5/22/2003 6:32:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By ru-legal: I was wondering if a person has to have a license to put a suppressor on a pre-ban. Or is it just one of the things allowed.
View Quote
No license. You have a form and a $200 tax stamp, just like full-auto.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 7:44:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 00bullitt: As for the attachment of the "CAN"....it can be done without threads.There are several threadless type mounting systems that are made by the manufacturer of the suppressors.Such mount has been referred to as a bayonet lok or B-Lok as marketed by Gemtech.As for the flash suppressor part of the can....that is a gray area and will be construed differently by several individuals.The suppressor is marketed as suppressing sound signature...not flash.It is known though that a "can" suppresses flash and muzzle blast as well.Just as it acts as a muzzle brake too.IMO and only in my opinion...is it OK to mount a sound suppressor on a post ban if the proper mounting system is mounted to the barrel considering that it is a sound suppressor as intentionally marketed.It will aslo be readily and quickly removable if the need arised to mask it.You can find this on GemTechs website referred to as the B-Lok.
View Quote
It's not a "B-Lock" as in bayonet, it's a "Bi-Lock" as in two mounting points. The Gemtech bi-lock uses a special flash hider with two mounting points for the suppressor.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 10:53:49 AM EDT
And according to GemTech and the BATF you cannot mount a "can" on a post ban gun no matter what method of attachment you use.
Link Posted: 5/25/2003 1:31:54 PM EDT
Originally Posted By xxKAREBEARxx: And according to GemTech and the BATF you cannot mount a "can" on a post ban gun no matter what method of attachment you use.
View Quote
That is because it is also considered a flash hider. Get rid of another feature (i.e. the pistol grip) and you CAN have it on a post ban, even with threads. Or make it full-auto and your rifle is no longer governed by the AWB so you can do almost anything to it while its still a machine gun.
Top Top