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Posted: 12/21/2002 6:44:24 PM EDT
I am blessed this X-mas with the gift of an AR. Now I just need to figure out the smartest buy for my needs. The following entails all my thoughts:

"The Fully"
DPMS 20" barrel, A-3 upper (with detachable handle,& stainless steel lower (with black teflon finish)

"The Shorty"
DPMS 16" barrel (no brake, A-3 upper, ss lower (teflon finish), & BATF approved "telescoping" stock.

I chose DPMS for the following reasons: Mil-spec.,The price to quality ratio, the superiority of their barrels, and the stainless receiver that I can beat the hell out of. This ensures that I can get more for my money vs. a Bushmaster, which would be my obvious 2nd choice.

If you have a few suggestions to my proposed setups or simply have some reasons to change my mind then I greatfully welcome your opinions.
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 7:54:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/21/2002 7:55:46 PM EDT by Resolved]
I have had limited experience with DPMS... all were not favorable. On the other hand I own both Colt and Bushmaster. Bushmaster is superior to the colt in fit and finish, Have had no porblems mixing the two Colts are M16A1's so Bushmaster is true mil-spec. Bushy's standing alone as semi's have been exceptional in function and accuracy. Hope this helps... probably confused the decision process. Either way, Merry Christmas, and to all a good shooting!
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 9:01:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By pulpsmack: I chose DPMS for the following reasons: Mil-spec.
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I am not saying DPMS is a bad choice, or that it shouldnt be your choice. But if you want a milspec gun, it is not the best choice. No commercial AR15 is milspec. Period. But some are more so than others. DPMS uses the 4140 lower grade quality steel in their barrels, the milspec is 4150 and only Bushmaster and Colt use it. Milspec also requires chrome lining in the chamber and bore, generally, DPMS has neither.
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 10:38:09 PM EDT
I anticipated a strong response in favor of Bushmaster (not a bad thing at all though). What really sells me on DPMS is the stainless steel receiver which has got to be stronger than the better forged aluminums. Also I heard the DPMS barrels are better, but if you say so then I can buy into the Bushmaster idea. What about the DPMS lower mated to a Bushmaster "M4" setup? I would prefer the bull barrel shorty to the god awful looking (IMO) 18" with brake though.
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 11:07:45 PM EDT
Do you know what the difference is between 5140 and 4150? Both are aircraft quality metals. Medium Carbon, Heat Treated 4140,4150. These grades are quenched and tempered steels developed for the best combination of toughness and strength. Because these bars are pre-heat treated, high strength parts can bemachined directly from the bar, thus elminating subsequent heat-treat costs. Furthermore, since these bars are stress relief annealed, distortion problems typically associated with machining high strength bars are practically eliminated.
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 1:10:45 AM EDT
DPMS would be my last choice. Thier small parts often have flashing left over from the molds or machining parts. Have had more than one of thier bolts crack at the cam pin hole. Some of thier uppers/barrels I have seen have the worst glossy looking paint job. I would buy in the following order, Rock River Arms, Bushmaster, Olympic Arms, Colt, DPMS
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 2:46:40 AM EDT
[;)] [img]http://compjrk.home.mindspring.com/header_logo_old.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 5:23:43 AM EDT
I also have no experience with DPMS rifles. I do know that Bushmaster makes a very fine rifle for just a little more money. Whatever route you choose, I would definitely want a chrome-lined barrel. As for the stainless steel lower, I feel that all you will be gaining is weight. There isn't really any stress placed on a lower to begin with. Heck, guys use cheap aluminum lowers with .50BMG uppers all the time with no problems.
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 6:07:29 AM EDT
I have owned 2 DPMS rifles and consider them to be third tier...I was not impressed....if you are looking for "mil-spec" the closest you will get it Colt or Bushmaster...I carried the M16A2 while in the Marine Corps and after I got out the first rifle that I got was a DPMS AR and it did not feel like the same rifle that I carried in the Corps...if you want "mil-spec" go with companies that contract with the US military...Bushmaster or Colt I really don't see the value of a Stainless Steel lower, except that it makes the rifle heavier...serves no other purpose
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 6:20:46 AM EDT
My experience with ARs is 2 bushmasters (shorty fixed CH & flat-top dissapator). Both work and are reasonably accurace for close work. However, I recently built a DPMS upper. I am left handed and only DPMS makes a left handed, that I am aware of. I choose the 16" fluted barrel, added the hyperform carbon fiber handguard (which I very much like), a 4 rail gas block and a Miculek compensator. This upper was put on a bushmaster lower. I have no complaints with the setup, expect for the lefthanded exjection is overrated and not necessary. But, the quality of the DPMS upper is good as the bushmaster upper I have. It shoots 1 MOA with match ammo. Good luck
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 9:22:15 AM EDT
My experience with AR-15's is limited but I have fired centerfire bolt action rifles a great deal as well as more than a few handguns. Here is what I have observed about AR-15 rifles so far; Chrome lined bores and chambers are a good thing. No self respecting gun guy would even consider firing several hundred round of non-coated ammo between cleanings. Standard operation w/chrome lining. Cleaning is a breeze with chrome lined bores and chambers, a couple of passes with normal cleaning stuff and a clean...really clean bore results. Unheard of with any non-chrome lined bore. My AR-15s are one Bushmaster V-Match 20" w/scope purchase new and the second is an older Bushmaster lower w/Colt upper purchased used. The new gun is far and away the better of the two regarding fit, finish, and accuracy.
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 12:05:34 PM EDT
I've got both a Colt & a Bushmaster. 1. For the $$$ - Bushmaster 2. Colt has a little better finish than the Bushmaster, runs about $200 higher. If you want the Colt name go for it, otherwise see #1.
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 1:32:28 PM EDT
I agree with Bushmaster being a great first choice for an AR15.
Link Posted: 12/22/2002 6:29:17 PM EDT
Looks like the power of persuasion is not to be underestimated. Ok, Bushmaster it is. Well, what will it be then? I figure a standard A2 with A3 upper, as the shorty (with A3 upper)will suck me dry costwise. So far I am getting some ugly quotes(no haggling yet); we're talking mid $800s for a standard A2 and $900 for a shorty. I figure that's at least $100 too high, especially considering that I plan on buying another .45 to go with. What do you figure a reasonable price for the A2 w. detachable handle?
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 1:41:58 AM EDT
Closest to Mil-Spec? Get a BUSHMASTER. Both my ARs are Bushys(M4A3/XM15 20") thousands of rounds, no problems. Use only USGI mags. The "civvie" designation of A3 IS with the detachable carryhandle. Get the A3, you'll be much happier later if you choose to mount glass. I hope I can pursuade you into getting an M4A3 or standard 20". Dissapointment is not an option and quality is not compromised. Missing a few meals for a A3 Bushmaster is something at least I can live with![:D]
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 3:20:33 AM EDT
IronBalaclava's right, get the A3, you won't regret it. It's much more versitile than the A2.
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 3:32:16 AM EDT
NO contest there. I insist on the A3 whether in a 16" or a 20" configuration. What I was saying was that the standard "M4" which is already more expensive than the standard A2 would be way too expensive for it's worth with the A3 feature compared to the full 20" version with the A3 feature. Is there anybody that can confirm/correct my earlier assessment on the cost of the 2 rifles (M4 w. detachable handle vs. A3)?
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 4:07:06 AM EDT
I'm fairly new with the AR but one thing I've learned the hard way is that most of these guys here on this board encouraged building my own the way I like it. I figured I just wanted to add one to my collection just in case you can't one day. What I found is that it's the best range rifle I've ever dreamed of. It far exceeds the performance of my early model M16 from my service days. I wish I had listened for I would have saved alot of money for I am now building my own the way I like it. 20" 1/9 twist chromalloy and forged upper and lower, A2 configuration. Mil spec is indeed Mil spec but the quality between brands is very apparent. I hope to take the best of each brand. When I'm done, I will have no more money tied into it than the DPMS complete rifle and should have a far superior rifle to boot. Just passing on what these guys told me and what I have learned.
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 3:18:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/23/2002 3:23:43 PM EDT by tooly]
new arguy, always with your 4150 over 4140,UNLESS you're told would YOU really know the difference? Besides who cares as long as your SHIT is chrome lined,that's all that counts...[;)] oh,armalite!!!
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 3:26:54 PM EDT
Pulpsmack, check out the prices on [url=www.gunsamerica.com]GunsAmerica[/url] and [url=www.gunbroker.com]GunBroker[/url] just in case there happen to be any good deals on there.
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 3:59:52 PM EDT
RRA ... i have one .. best dambed ar i have... i do have t2 others .. both colt prebans .. .. RRA baby .. all the way ... cleanest .. best lookin .. blackest .. perfect ...
Link Posted: 12/23/2002 5:46:59 PM EDT
Everyone here seems to be down on DPMS...Not me, I guess I'll be different. I have a 20" DPMS upper on a Oly lower I have had no problems at all and would go as far as to say Myself and my DPMS can shoot as good if not better than anybody else....It all comes down to practice...Practice...Practice. PS. Colt, Bushmaster, Armalite are just names in my opinion you have to master your weapon, no matter who made it.
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 11:08:35 AM EDT
Originally Posted By AKsRule: [;)] [url]http://compjrk.home.mindspring.com/header_logo_old.gif[/url]
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AKsRULE MAYBE YOU NEED TO KEEP YOUR EXPERTISE IN THE AK FORUM.[SIZE=5]COLT ALL THE WAY.[/SIZE=5]BEFORE THEM THERE WERE NONE AND AFTER THEM THERE WILL BE NO MORE WITH THE QUALITY WORKMANSHIP THAT THEY HAVE SUPPLIED THIS COUNTRY.MANY HAVE TRIED TO COPY, BUT ALL HAVE FAILED! SOLDIER1
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 6:15:47 PM EDT
Originally Posted By soldier1:
Originally Posted By AKsRule: [;)] [url]http://compjrk.home.mindspring.com/header_logo_old.gif[/url]
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AKsRULE MAYBE YOU NEED TO KEEP YOUR EXPERTISE IN THE AK FORUM.[SIZE=5]COLT ALL THE WAY.[/SIZE=5]BEFORE THEM THERE WERE NONE AND AFTER THEM THERE WILL BE NO MORE WITH THE QUALITY WORKMANSHIP THAT THEY HAVE SUPPLIED THIS COUNTRY.MANY HAVE TRIED TO COPY, BUT ALL HAVE FAILED! SOLDIER1
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EXACTLY ARMALITE!!! COLT IS A COPY!!!
Link Posted: 12/24/2002 6:44:05 PM EDT
Sheesh, I hate the way these threads disintegrate. I have no prefference for brand names. Seriously. I have prefferences for features and materials. Tooly, its not me and my 4150 vs 4140, its you and your telling everyone to buy Armalite, every chance you get, for no other reason than it is an Armalite. Who cares? Me, I dont give two craps who made the rifle. I dont give a single crap actually. Really, I just dontcare. But if I have a choice between a higher grade steel or a lower grade steel, I am going with the higher grade. Every time. Even if it isnt [b]much[/b] tougher, it is tougher. Period. Thats no brand loyalty, thats not blind faith, it simply logic; no?? I dont tell people to buy Bushmaster because I love Bushmaster. I tell people what I think the best features are for a particular rifle. I really think it is SAD that the only company who offers 4150 steel, chrome lined chamber and bores, light weight barrel option and milspec pins and parts is Bushmaster. In fact I really think it sucks. But, because those are all features that I think are important in a general purpose AR15, I recomend the only company that offers them. Bushmaster. Armalite is a good rifle. They really are. In fact I think they are great rifles. So is Rock River. So is Colt. Heck, so is DPMS. All are completely functional. But when there is one of every rifle in front of you, and you can choose to get whichever AR you want, all within say $100 to $200 of eachother... what good reason could anyone have for picking a gun with lower quality steel, or without chrome lining, or with out of spec pins and parts? If all the rifles were in front of you, and none of them had markings on them at all to say which manufacturer made them, but you had all the specs in front of you, for what good reason would you get a rifle with inferior steel? Even if it is just slightly inferior? Wouldnt you want the best grade steel you could get? I know I do. I dont buy rifles or gear based on the name that is on the side. I buy them based on how they meet my needs, based on the quality of workmanship, the materials used in their production, etc. I do look at the company themselves and if they are responsive to consumers wants and needs. A companies politics can be something to keep me away from a rifle or gear no matter how good it is. I wouldnt buy an ASA gun if it had everything I wanted. The owner is such a jerk I simply refuse. But each one of the companies we are talking about is a good company. Each has good customer servie. I cant say a bad thing about any of the ones listed here (except maybe the way Rock River lied to us all about their flat tops). Like I said, show me the specs and I am going to but the one made that meets my needs and is made of the best materials I can get. In short, I dont care whose name is on the side. I really dont. Why some folks do is beyond me.
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