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Posted: 12/20/2002 1:51:31 PM EDT
A Local taxi driver (in Albany) was shot several times in the face, neck, and head and yet he is STILL alive!! Having recently received my pistol permit, I know ONE caliber I won't be considering!!!
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 2:38:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/20/2002 2:39:34 PM EDT by Dano523]
Gunner, You may want to do a search regarding the 38. A while ago, there was a fire fight between FBI agents and a felon. The FBI where using 9mm and had not stop the man after several hits. One of the agents had run out of ammo on his 9mm, and went for his back up(a 38 special). The 38 is what put the felon down, and not the 9mm. What it boils down to in not so much the stopping power of the pistol, but the placement of the shoot. And, consider that the CCW pistol will probably never be used, the last thing that you want is to carry a brick of a pistol around, then try to conceal it. Myself, A small wheel gun in 357 mag is the idea rig. If you do need to use it, your going to be point blank range. Barrel length, nor mag capacity is not going to matter, it's the placement of the first shot that matters. Food for thought.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 2:45:58 PM EDT
O comn this is silly talk! We all know shot placement is what really matters. I agree, a small .357 mag revolver is the best choice for a carry weapon, I recommend porting it as well. When releasing 5 rounds as quick as possible(real world situation), the level muzzle when following up is worth the extra flash IMO.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 3:02:36 PM EDT
One of the rules of gunfighting..... "Never show up with a handgun who's caliber does not begin with 4" When i was working EMS i had several "drive by" patients that were on their feet and walked to the ambulance after multiple hits with a 9mm. Granted none of them were hit in vital areas but none of them fell down either. At least a .357 or .45 will let them know without a doubt they have been shot. mike
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 3:38:38 PM EDT
I have a friend who shot a robber with 9mm ball. The robber dropped to the ground, immobilized but still alive. he shot him center mass. A .45 probably would have killed him right there. Shot placement is important, but the robber was maybe 10 yards away. Would you trust a .38 snubby to do the job? With your adrenaline runnig, could you be sure that your shot placement would be perfect? Update: Now my friend has a Keltec .32 with him at all times, and .38 service revolvers hidden all over his house. Another friend carries a Colt Commander.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 6:24:50 PM EDT
Ok, allow me to state the obvious: ammo selection. A FMJ or LRN will NOT get the job done. OTOH, a good +P or +P+ JHP will damn sure get it done. Clearly shot placement is critical but just as important is bullet choice, IMO.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 6:55:28 PM EDT
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer: One of the rules of gunfighting..... "Never show up with a handgun who's caliber does not begin with 4" mike
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Doesn't the 44mag have an overpenetration issue for self-defence?[:D]
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 7:50:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 7:50:55 PM EDT
Originally Posted By llanero:
Originally Posted By The_Beer_Slayer: One of the rules of gunfighting..... "Never show up with a handgun who's caliber does not begin with 4" mike
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Doesn't the 44mag have an overpenetration issue for self-defence?[:D]
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With HP's NO, but you will need to be wearing a rain coat and galoshes to protect you from the red mist and pieces of flesh that will back splash.
Link Posted: 12/20/2002 9:23:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 1:43:54 AM EDT
hell yeah the 44 mag overpenetrates! you get the guy behind the guy!!! and maybe the next one! Great round, would never own a 9mm, too much lead for a tiny bit of powder, same with 45 acp. Now a 45 Long on the other hand......
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 4:53:29 AM EDT
Whenever I see these types of discussions I am reminded of a quote atributed to Elmer Kieth when asked if he thought a 22 was an acceptable self defense weapon. " Well it beats the hell out of your fingernails" Also and atributed was "The first rule of a gunfight is bring a gun" Being a large guy I carry an old AMT 10mm with HydraShocks my wife on the other hand carries a S&W Airweight packed 38 HydraShocks cause this is what she is sure she can put them in the center mass with. 38 is what is is
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 6:50:16 AM EDT
For whatever its worth, check out a .38's effectiveness in this article:[url]http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/xml/story.ssf/html_standard.xsl?/base/news/1040293043205230.xml[/url]
According to the father and Montgomery police spokesman Lt. Huey Thornton, the robbery began when a man with a .38-caliber pistol approached to take Sgt. Lowery's customized Chevrolet Suburban. Lowery got out and gave up the keys but the gunman shot the Marine. Lowery then got his .45-caliber pistol from the car and shot multiple times, Thornton said. Dead at the scene was Thaddeus Antone, 19, of Montgomery. The bullet hit Lowery in the top left cheek, close to his nose, and stopped near his voice box, the father said. Lowery was listed in fair condition at Baptist Medical Center South, Mandy Harrison, public relations coordinator for Baptist Health in Montgomery, said Wednesday.
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This article may be missing details, but it looks like getting shot in the face with a .38 didn't slow this guy down.
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 6:59:47 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Dano523: What it boils down to in not so much the stopping power of the pistol, but the placement of the shoot. And, consider that the CCW pistol will probably never be used, the last thing that you want is to carry a brick of a pistol around, then try to conceal it.
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I carry a Glock 34 loaded with 18 rounds of 9mm. I feel pretty confident that I've got my CCW situation covered. I don't like small guns, period! I know that most "violent encounters" happen within 7 yards, but not only am I going to focus on shot placement but also on how much I can raise the guy's lead levels if you know what I mean. I shoot better than most police officers and who knows if there are going to be multiple assailants. I like knowing that I could give 6 people 2 to the chest and 1 to the head if I had to. Just my $.02 worth.
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 6:44:24 PM EDT
I think the FBI found the 158 grain +P lead SWC round has pretty good performance. It is not a .45, but it is not pretending to be.
Link Posted: 12/21/2002 7:30:22 PM EDT
My [b]backup[/b] gun is a S&W 642 Airweight loaded with Federal 158gr + P Lead Semi-Wadcutter Hollowpoints. .38Spl is at the bottom of the acceptable list. Im a firm believer that the best gun for you to carry is the one that you [b]WILL[/b] carry, and can hit with. I dont try to look for convience in carrying a gun, because face it, if you do everyday, it literal is a pain in the ass. But thats the choice you make to be prepared for slight possibility that some subhuman might decide for you that today is a good day to die. For me, it's a 1911 and 2 spare magazines, almost everyday. Im not into the caliber war, so occassionally a Browning or SIG 9mm goes with me. Yes it may seem like overkill, but if its there to protect me and my family from the improbably, dont I want any edge I can get, be that larger caliber or higher capacity. For me, the small .357s kick too much, are too hard for me (and my large hands) to manipulate well and slow to reload. Any gun [b]IS[/b] better than no gun, but I dont want to be the guy in the convience store when the [b]TWO[/b] guys holding it up decide its time to eliminate witnesses, and Im standing there with five shots in a short barreled, short sight radiused, hard recoiling, slow to reload gun. Not when a flat, easy to conceal 1911, or small lightweight gun like the Glock 19 are available. To each his own. At least having a gun is better than wishing you had one.
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